Lets Talk Tints

[Aggressor]

The point is that CRI 100 at 2000K is very crappy light - a lot of colors are very poorly represented. While CRI 100 at 5000K is great light - all colors are represented properly. This subject is complex and poorly understood by many people. A lot of people here seem to think that CRI 100 means good color representation even at “warm” CCTs. It doesn’t.

[KeepingItLight]

@WalkIntoTheLight

Unless you’re doing work that specifically requires you to accurately see all colors (such as an electrician), I wouldn’t get too hung up about 5000K temperatures.

My interests are varied, but include photography. Most of the time, therefore, I have a strong preference for 5000K light sources over ones at 3500K. I have some interest in the 5000K Nitecore TIP CRI. I have no interest in the 3500K version.

I am not a collector of flashlights. Since I do not wish to purchase a large number of flashlights, it is easy for me to limit my purchases (of small flashlights) to those with high CRI, CCT between, say, 4500K and 5500K, and neutral tint.

That’s a relatively new policy for me, and it has served as a good brake for my PayPal account. :money_mouth_face:

[sidecross]

@KeepingItLight

My interests are varied, but include photography. Most of the time, therefore, I have a strong preference for 5000K light sources over ones at 3500K. I have some interest in the 5000K Nitecore TIP CRI. I have no interest in the 3500K version.

I am not a collector of flashlights. Since I do not wish to purchase a large number of flashlights, it is easy for me to limit my purchases (of small flashlights) to those with high CRI, CCT between, say, 4500K and 5500K, and neutral tint.

That’s a relatively new policy for me, and it has served as a good brake for my PayPal account. :money_mouth_face:

+1

I follow the same principle in trying to keep my possessions to a minimum.

[teacher]

[Pictures posted by jon_slider] Pictures are from a Nitecore Tip and Nitecore TipCRI

Nitecore Tip / Low CRI 6000K

Nitecore TipCRI / High CRI 3500K

@Aggressor

What was White Balance camera setting when you took these pictures? It is very difficult to make color accurate photographs under such light sources, i.e. make the photograph show the same colors you saw with your eyes.

@jon_slider

I dont know, not my pics, I assume they are from an auto white balance cell phone
you could ask the OP here
in my limited experience, auto white balance works well enough to show the difference between the two beams, particularly when you have all the colored items to compare in the photo.

Is there any doubt from the pics that the Low CRI is doing a worse job of rendering color?

@Aggressor

There is real doubt these pictures show colors how they were seen by the human eyes. Just a note, setting “correct” white balance in camera under such irregular light sources as LEDs is not enough either. One needs to take a picture of Color Reference Chart under the same light and then adjust colors in post processing. When working with light sources which follow Black-body radiation curve more or less closely, like Sun or incandescent bulb, selecting correct white balance setting maybe sufficient. But when working with light sources like LEDs, whose spectral energy distribution curve looks nothing like Black-body radiation curve, a separate measurement at many different points is required to represent colors correctly.

@Aggressor

I am just pointing out that “green” in the cards we all see in these pictures and dislike so much, might have been seen as perfect “yellow” to the human eyes when the picture was taken. Or perhaps some other color. These two pictures were taken under two different light sources and neither was color calibrated. There is nothing to compare.

I am trying to understand this, so I have a question or two.

jon_slider posted two pictures, each lit by a different tint. I can see that by looking at the pictures & (in addition he told us).

Aggressor, are you saying the colors we see in the pictures now may not have been the same as the colors our eyes would have actually seen the moment the pictures were taken??

And this could be adjusted, in a way the pictures would accurately represent what our eyes actually see at the moment the picture is taken; by setting ‘White Balance’ & adjusting colors with the Color Reference Chart???

Am I anywhere close to semi-understanding this or am I still wandering around in “left field” lost???

Thanks in advance………. :+1:

[sidecross]

teacher

Everything including time is relative; there is no absolute.

Even if all cameras were calibrated and too the monitor you are viewing the pictures, there is no way to be certain that your viewing, done by your eyes and nervous system, would be an exact copy of anyone else.

For most purposes ‘close enough’ is usually sufficient for making a decision on tints.

[Aggressor]

@teacher

Aggressor, are you saying the colors we see in the pictures now may not have been the same as the colors our eyes would have actually seen the moment the pictures were taken??

And this could be adjusted, in a way the pictures would accurately represent what our eyes actually see at the moment the picture is taken; by setting ‘White Balance’ & adjusting colors with the Color Reference Chart???

Am I anywhere close to semi-understanding this or am I still wandering around in “left field” lost???

Thanks in advance………. :+1:

Yes, that’s exactly right.

Except that simply adjusting white balance would have been good enough for light sources like Sun and incandescent bulb, while for light sources like LED using Color Reference Chart is required to get correct colors.

[teacher]

@Aggressor

@teacher

Aggressor, are you saying the colors we see in the pictures now may not have been the same as the colors our eyes would have actually seen the moment the pictures were taken??

And this could be adjusted, in a way the pictures would accurately represent what our eyes actually see at the moment the picture is taken; by setting ‘White Balance’ & adjusting colors with the Color Reference Chart???

Am I anywhere close to semi-understanding this or am I still wandering around in “left field” lost???

Thanks in advance………. :+1:

Yes, that’s exactly right.

Except that simply adjusting white balance would have been good enough for light sources like Sun and incandescent bulb, while for light sources like LED using Color Reference Chart is required to get correct colors.

OK, thank you Aggressor; I am beginning to understand what you are saying then. :+1:
I appreciate your reasoning & explanations.
I have moved in from “wandering around lost in deep left field” to just semi-confused in shallow left.

[WalkIntoTheLight]

@Aggressor

@teacher

Aggressor, are you saying the colors we see in the pictures now may not have been the same as the colors our eyes would have actually seen the moment the pictures were taken??

And this could be adjusted, in a way the pictures would accurately represent what our eyes actually see at the moment the picture is taken; by setting ‘White Balance’ & adjusting colors with the Color Reference Chart???

Am I anywhere close to semi-understanding this or am I still wandering around in “left field” lost???

Thanks in advance………. :+1:

Yes, that’s exactly right.

Except that simply adjusting white balance would have been good enough for light sources like Sun and incandescent bulb, while for light sources like LED using Color Reference Chart is required to get correct colors.

And to complicate things even more, a camera’s sensor and your computer’s monitor can not reproduce the full color space that your eyes can see. For example, a red-green-blue sensor or screen (which is almost every one), can not capture a true yellow, such as a dandelion flower. The best it can do is reproduce a slightly green version of yellow. Your eyes will see a more vibrant/true yellow flower in real life.

[Aggressor]

@teacher

I have moved in from “wandering around lost in deep left field” to just semi-confused in shallow left.

Perhaps one of those days I will write a post properly explaining the whole situation with light and color, there is enormous amount of confusion in this area. It is not an easy subject to explain…

[sidecross]

@WalkIntoTheLight

And to complicate things even more, a camera’s sensor and your computer’s monitor can not reproduce the full color space that your eyes can see. For example, a red-green-blue sensor or screen (which is almost every one), can not capture a true yellow, such as a dandelion flower. The best it can do is reproduce a slightly green version of yellow. Your eyes will see a more vibrant/true yellow flower in real life.

+1

[gamezawy]

4C is my favorite and ofc the nichia 90 cri, dedomed 1A looks very good too

[teacher]

@Aggressor

@teacher

I have moved in from “wandering around lost in deep left field” to just semi-confused in shallow left.

Perhaps one of those days I will write a post properly explaining the whole situation with light and color, there is enormous amount of confusion in this area. It is not an easy subject to explain…

That would be good. :+1:

This is a good thread with a lot of good info so far. A big “thank you” to jon_slider, Aggressor, WalkIntoTheLight, techieman33, stephenk, and anyone else that has had provided knowledgeable input… it is appreciated.

[sidecross]

I have two Convoy L6 lights a N2-3A and a N2-3C; both are 5000K lights. I checked them both last night outside and inside and with my eyes could not discern a noticeable difference.

[teacher]

@sidecross

I have two Convoy L6 lights a N2-3A and a N2-3C; both are 5000K lights. I checked them both last night outside and inside and with my eyes could not discern a noticeable difference.

That makes sense to me. 3A & 3C are on either side of the 5000K line and above & below the BBL (broken line)
They pretty much look the same on the chart also…. “pretty much” being the operative words.

[sidecross]

@teacher

@sidecross

I have two Convoy L6 lights a N2-3A and a N2-3C; both are 5000K lights. I checked them both last night outside and inside and with my eyes could not discern a noticeable difference.

That makes sense to me. 3A & 3C are on either side of the 5000K line and above & below the BBL (broken line)
They pretty much look the same on the chart also…. “pretty much” being the operative words.

+1

The chart provided has been a great help in my understanding of tints and color temperature.

[teacher]

@sidecross

+1
The chart provided has been a great help in my understanding of tints and color temperature.

It has to me also ‘sidecross’, once I learned how to read & understand it. :person_facepalming: …

I almost hate to admit this, but it is true. Quite a while back, just about the time I ran across this chart and was trying to make sense of it; I bought three Convoy S2+’s each with a CREE XM-L2 emitter in a different tint.

I got one of each of the one’s below, a different color S2+ for each tint:

• Blue Convoy U2 1A - Cool White
• Green Convoy T6 3B - Neutral White
• Red Convoy T4 7A - Warm White

Then along with this chart and the “visual aid” being able to actually see first hand the difference in the tints… I finally began to understand.
Kinda sad I had to go to such lengths to actually understand…. but at least it worked for me.

[sidecross]

@teacher

It has to me also ‘sidecross’, once I learned how to read & understand it. :person_facepalming: …

I almost hate to admit this, but it is true. Quite a while back, just about the time I ran across this chart and was trying to make sense of it; I bought three Convoy S2+’s each with a CREE XM-L2 emitter in a different tint.

I got one of each of the one’s below, a different color S2+ for each tint:

• Blue Convoy U2 1A - Cool White
• Green Convoy T6 3B - Neutral White
• Red Convoy T4 7A - Warm White

Then along with this chart and the “visual aid” being able to actually see first hand the difference in the tints… I finally began to understand.
Kinda sad I had to go to such lengths to actually understand…. but at least it worked for me.

+1

There are many ways to learn; your way had the benefit to include having new flashlights.

[teacher]

@sidecross

+1

There are many ways to learn; your way had the benefit to include having new flashlights.

Yep, the “visual aids” just kinda made it real. And, like you said; “new flashlights” were required to make that happen.
Probably part of my ‘sub conscious’ master plan……… :person_facepalming: …

[ven]

I like variety , close up work or uses then nichia 218b and 219c work well for me, the former at home and work, the latter again the same. For my work uses i like mules these days, took over from triples and quads for that soft wall of light.
triple 219c

Find 15% output works spot on, bonus with a mule is no bounce back off machinery and not fussy where to position it as it still floods the area even when set down bellow the subject.

Tend to not go bellow 4000k, prefer 4500-5000k ideally and even on my bigger hitters
6x xm-l2 5000k de-domed

I still enjoy the cooler side, sometimes i dont want or care for colours popping out, exaggerated reds and greens etc……………i just want to see colours fairly accurate. Bigger flood beasts or long throwing lights tend to come into this category

This is pretty accurate for 12x xpl’s at 5700k !

The light is my avatar and the x40 in this pic,

Love the infinite control ring UI and the huge copper heat sink that helps the 5000+ OTF wall of light run…………and run…………and run without heat issues for a long time.

I am good with the cool side as long as i dont get angry blues……….

Cheers ven

[sidecross]

Good to see you here ven!