Sorry if I’ve missed this, but is a regular domed XP-L a better choice for “max lumens” versus an XP-G3? I’m looking to mod a second Nitefighter BT40S bike light (1st one modded with Nichia 219C’s - 4 LEDs @ approx. 2.0A each) and was going to try it with XP-L’s to go for more lumen output. I probably won’t boost it to 2A per LED though; think I’ll come down a little but not sure where. At 2A per LED with the 1st light my low mode really isn’t low enough and turbo is just for “WOW” factor and heats the light up too hot too quickly for normal riding.
Suggestions? (Sorry, don’t wish to derail; just trying to grasp where XP-L stands versus XP-G3.)
Well if you are only driving it at 1.5-2A per LED then you are not looking for max lumens anyways, max lumens happen around 5A+
Far as which will give you more lumens per watt, well it depends. At low drive currents he XP-G3 could actually come out slightly ahead due to the lower VF. Although in the real world just go with the XP-L if you want may lumens. The normal domed version if you want flood and the “HI” version if you want throw.
Yeah I didn’t mean I was driving the light for max lumens. What I meant was which LED when driven at say 2.0A would yield the most lumens.
Yeah I’m wondering which might work better “in the real world” where with bike lights we have to deal with battery cabling & connectors thereby making it difficult to pull high amps from an 8.4v pack. On my 1st BT40S mod I had a hard time even getting 3.82A pulled from a pack.
I was surprised when I saw in the graphs that the XP-L HI’s output was still so high (lumens). I thought the HI version was at a significant reduction of lumens vs. the standard XP-L. I think in my application the HI might be too throwy though I’m not sure how it might turn out with the stock optic (optic is pretty floody).
According to djozz graphs the XP-L has just slightly more output over an XP-G3, with the XP-G3 having a slightly lower vF. I wonder if there is a significant difference in heat between these two, anyone know? Perhaps my decision will come down to which LED is available in a nicer tint. My favorite tint is a 5B1 (which I buy in XM-L2’s). I think it renders the most realistic colors riding through the woods. I don’t really like a 3C as I don’t think it’s neutral/warm enough.
At 2 amps it is too close to call and honestly unimportant which one will give you more lumens. Worry instead about cost, tint and CRI.
I love the XP-L HI (when it is a genuine tint and bin), I use them basically exclusivly now days for me “real” lights. I much prefer the beam pattern and much less tint shift on the edges of the beam. They also appear brighter then the domed version in most cases due to the tighter hot spot.
That said I did just build an XP-G3 5700k 90+ CRI S2+ (my first XP-G3 build even though I have had the LED’s for months). I am impressed with how well the G3 is working. I can see this becoming my “cheap light” LED in a hurry. Only real issue is some tint shift on the edges of the beam but it doesn’t bother me and with the right reflector/TIR I have got rid of most of it.
It is putting out ~1150 lumens @ ~6.75 amps
I also have a high CRI XP-L with the same exact setup both using tripledown drivers. In the regulated 2.5A mode they both get hot at the same speed, now in turbo the G3 get hot faster due to pulling more amps but it also puts out more light then the XP-L (the XP-L on turbo pulls a bit over 5 amps IIRC and makes ~1050 lumens).
Honestly either will work just fine for a bike light, The XP-G3’s are a LOT cheaper though.
True on all accounts. I wouldn’t even notice the lumen difference by eye between XP-G3 & XP-L. I guess another important issue would be the beam pattern created by XP-G3 vs. XP-L.
If it helps, teardown pics of the BT40S are here and beamshots stock here modded vs. stock here.
(Sorry, at this point I should have started a new thread!)
The teardown pics looked like XM-L2’s in the stock light? Or are those G2’s?
If G2’s then yeah I would just go with the G3’s and be done with it.
The issue is finding a local source for them. Cutter has them and there are a few local places that offers them as well, just not in a very wide range of tints and bins.
Or the XP-L HI. The HI version throws basically the same as an XP-G2 with less tint shift around the edges if your lens has an issue with that.
Good to know. Guess I wouldn’t have any issue with the optic resting over the XP-L HI’s would I? Hmm . . . or would I? Seems I would as there is no dome to rest the optic on. The legs of the optic don’t touch anything, just go down through the openings around the pcb. I’d probably just go XP-G3 anyway.
Cree, Inc. has introduced a new high-efficacy (HE) edition of the XLamp XP-G2 LED, a progression that the company claims yields greater output and higher efficiency than its predecessors.
The new XP-G2 is optically compatible with the original XP-G – providing drop-in-ready performance enhancements to shorten the LED fixture design cycle and improve time to market. A new high-efficacy option is available, as well. The High Efficacy XP-G2 LED leverages Cree’s latest high-power chip technology to deliver 25% more light output via a higher maximum current of 2000 mA, higher efficacy and lower thermal resistance. Combining high light output, reliability and efficacy, XP-G2 is optimized for directional, high-lumen applications
I know these are relatively new out but does anyone know of supplier with stock?
Xp-G2 S4 HE 180Lumens @ 350ma XPGBWT-BE-0000-00L50
More importantly can this new emitter knock the XP-G2 S4 2B of its pedestal for king of the throwers??
Wow!! good god!! dethroned , its been lane waste, thank you so much for answering I have spent days reading posts and asking questions on CPF all to no avail first post I make on here an i have an answer , so the Osram KW CULNM1.TG is now the king for a super tightly focused thrower presumably the 1mm version? do you still dedome them or jut buy the flat version?
Been looking to upgrade a nigthmaster Xsearcher with a new driver/emitter combo & crelant 7g5cs this should be just the ticket
The only place to buy the KW CULNM1.TG is at led4power.com. The bare leds are out of stock, but he still has 2 reflowed on a 20mm MCPCB, and 4 on a 16mm MCPCB. Not sure when or even if he will get them in stock again.
These are very low voltage leds so even if you want them at 5A you need to regulate the current or they die from overcurrent. For output/voltage information see the OP of this thread: OSRAM CSLNM1.TG & CULNM1.TG 1mm², CSLPM1.TG & CULPM1.TG 2mm² . The KW CULNM1.TG is the last one discussed in the OP, you need some scrolling.
First... I like to think of this forum as a bit more helpful than the other forum ;) :THUMBS-UP:
The White Flats are already domeless (or "flat-dome"?). The CULNM1.TG is a 1mm2 version with 4040 footprint, but is already discontinued by Osram. Led4Power got a limited quantity but it currently says only two remain. However, it looks like the other two (CSLNM, 1mm2 on 3030 footprint, and CSLPM, 2mm2 on 3030 footprint) are still available, and they are nearly as good - still better than XP-G21. Do pay attention to the low Vf of these emitters and the recommended current to run them at - they turn angry blue on simple FET drivers with halfway decent cells.
It is A LOT more helpful, I have literally spent days trying to ascertain what the best possible upgrade i could drop into these units would be , wasted money on bad advice and was not really any closer to an answer , it seems most people like to just buy something off the shelf and hope the manufacturer tells the truth about its specifications and parts used.
the XPGBWT-BE-0000-00L50 (2amp) lists
Minimum Luminous Flux (lm)
@ 350 mA = 180Lumen with a max current of 2000ma which is 5.7x350=2amps / 1026 lumens.
Looking at the chart above i have to run 6 amps into the KW CULNM1-TG to get 1023 lumens
Edit: (penny drops)
even if i only run 2 amps into the CULNM1-TG it will still give higher FC than the g2 because of that die size, its a have your cake and eat it situation and doesn’t have to come at the cost of run time…… I had it in my head i was going to have to Run 6amps into it to get the same performance as 2amps on S4 in reality for the same 2amps il get way more lux / fc I didnt realise the S4 was being over driven