Rant & Rave

[Foy]

There is a lot of Chinese junk but the sweeping statement "all Chinese flashlights are junk" is only true as far as junk Chinese flashlights are concerned.

I have a Surefire 6P LED I bought at Fry's two years ago for $89 plus tax. It was rated by Surefire at 120 lumens. I also have a Solarforce L2 with an UF XM-L drop-in. L2s are $12.50 right now so let's call it $30 total. Put aside the fact that a Solarforce so equipped, stomps a mudhole in the 6P's behind in terms of brightness, on medium . . . I defy any thinking person to show me where the L2 falls short when compared to a 6P. In terms of machine work, threads, fit and finish, anodization or whatever happens to matter to you, even a bad L2 is at least as good as a 6P. Aside from a warranty, the L2 is simply superior product.

A higher quality flashlight that is at least three times as bright . . . you could own three for the price of an inferior 6P.

Anybody that thinks Chinese lights are junk, owns too many 502Bs. (or, in my case, one too many Sky Rays)

/rantFoy

[pounder]

@Flashlight Foy

There is a lot of Chinese junk but the sweeping statement "all Chinese flashlights are junk" is only true as far as junk Chinese flashlights are concerned.

I have a Surefire 6P LED I bought at Fry's two years ago for $89 plus tax. It was rated by Surefire at 120 lumens. I also have a Solarforce L2 with an UF XM-L drop-in. L2s are $12.50 right now so let's call it $30 total. Put aside the fact that a Solarforce so equipped, stomps a mudhole in the 6P's behind in terms of brightness, on medium . . . I defy any thinking person to show me where the L2 falls short when compared to a 6P. In terms of machine work, threads, fit and finish, anodization or whatever happens to matter to you, even a bad L2 is at least as good as a 6P. Aside from a warranty, the L2 is simply superior product.

A higher quality flashlight that is at least three times as bright . . . you could own three for the price of an inferior 6P.

Anybody that thinks Chinese lights are junk, owns too many 502Bs. (or, in my case, one too many Sky Rays)

/rantFoy

But but but..candlepowerforums said the solarforce sucks and the surefire was amazing!! ;)

[CheapThrills]

@pounder

@Flashlight Foy

There is a lot of Chinese junk but the sweeping statement "all Chinese flashlights are junk" is only true as far as junk Chinese flashlights are concerned.

I have a Surefire 6P LED I bought at Fry's two years ago for $89 plus tax. It was rated by Surefire at 120 lumens. I also have a Solarforce L2 with an UF XM-L drop-in. L2s are $12.50 right now so let's call it $30 total. Put aside the fact that a Solarforce so equipped, stomps a mudhole in the 6P's behind in terms of brightness, on medium . . . I defy any thinking person to show me where the L2 falls short when compared to a 6P. In terms of machine work, threads, fit and finish, anodization or whatever happens to matter to you, even a bad L2 is at least as good as a 6P. Aside from a warranty, the L2 is simply superior product.

A higher quality flashlight that is at least three times as bright . . . you could own three for the price of an inferior 6P.

Anybody that thinks Chinese lights are junk, owns too many 502Bs. (or, in my case, one too many Sky Rays)

/rantFoy

But but but..candlepowerforums said the solarforce sucks and the surefire was amazing!! ;)

Have I been reading too much CPF / too little BLF since this is the first time I hear anyone actually saying, that Surefire lacks quality compared to Solarforce?

I have always thought, the Surefires are even better made than Solarforces High quality products and thus cost 3-4x more?

[2100]

@pounder

But but but..candlepowerforums said the solarforce sucks and the surefire was amazing!! ;)

If i really want to spend on such stuff, i'd go for Polarions, Elzetta, Malkoffs....

YouTube

YouTube

[motodeficient]

@Flashlight Foy

There is a lot of Chinese junk but the sweeping statement "all Chinese flashlights are junk" is only true as far as junk Chinese flashlights are concerned.

I have a Surefire 6P LED I bought at Fry's two years ago for $89 plus tax. It was rated by Surefire at 120 lumens. I also have a Solarforce L2 with an UF XM-L drop-in. L2s are $12.50 right now so let's call it $30 total. Put aside the fact that a Solarforce so equipped, stomps a mudhole in the 6P's behind in terms of brightness, on medium . . . I defy any thinking person to show me where the L2 falls short when compared to a 6P. In terms of machine work, threads, fit and finish, anodization or whatever happens to matter to you, even a bad L2 is at least as good as a 6P. Aside from a warranty, the L2 is simply superior product.

A higher quality flashlight that is at least three times as bright . . . you could own three for the price of an inferior 6P.

Anybody that thinks Chinese lights are junk, owns too many 502Bs. (or, in my case, one too many Sky Rays)

/rantFoy

I completely agree with this. If you haven't tried a Solarforce, you don't know what you are missing. I have two solarforce lights, one L2P with an XML drop-in. You can get this setup for $30 and will blow the doors off a $60 maglite LED in terms of output in a much much smaller form factor. The quality is there too, I would take the Solarforce L2P over my maglite in terms of quality. I also have a solarforce L2 with the solarforce MPP-1 turbohead. This setup costs $52 shipped and will out-throw by far any light that maglite sells. And again, the quality is outstanding. I am not going to pay more for a lesser product? If Maglite made anything even remotely like this in terms of output and quality, I would probably buy it and even pay a bit more. But they don't. American companies need to step up, and not just in the flashlight world.

[gcbryan]

@oldbobk

gcbryan,

So, you've never owned a Maglite. You do, however, have strong negative opinions about them. Strange. I own a few Maglites, and for $15.48 at Wallyworld, I get something that I can make into nearly anything I want. Want a 2x26650 host? Here you go! (2D) Want to run three batteries, NiMH OR Alkaline, to get supply voltage above emitter voltage? 3D! You can, of course, run 3 NiMH Cs in a 2D, but then your runtime drops down into the region of a 2x18650 light.

As to the plastic lens and reflector; the Mag was designed to be usable in police work. If you drop the light, the lens won't shatter. And as to the plastic reflector, what's the problem? It's non-conductive, so you can set it right down on the solder connections on a 20mm star. The reflector finish is no more or less durable than the finish on an aluminum reflector.

You hear these cautions about the switch getting flaky at higher amperages. I've built 2 Quad XM-Ls, a triple MC-E, an SST-90, a single XM-L, and I did a 5xXR-E R2 dropin. I've never had a switch problem, running up to 9 amps.

I find absolutely nothing to complain about with Mag quality. I do, as others do, complain that Mag won't drop a nice three mode XM-L in their lights. I did, used it last night looking for my dog Lucky, liked it a lot (Alkalines). But even if you don't have access to a lathe, you can use a Sandwich Shoppe sink and build a really practical single XM-L for about $50. Or you can get one of their Tri or Quad sinks, and the optics from LED Supply. You won't have to worry about how hard it is driven, because YOU selected the driver! What don't you like about this?

If you want to build your heart's-desire flashlight, you should look closely at the Maglite. If you're outside the USA, my plan is just too expensive, though.

Bob K

I don’t think I have to own something to have an opinion about it do I? I find nothing strange about that. There are many on here who have opinions of China who have never been there and even opinions on governmental policies that they don’t even understand.
I don’t mod lights or I would probably have some use for a Maglite (maybe). I also don’t particularly like larger lights. A P60 is about as large as I’m interested in. Therefore why would I like Maglites?

[Boaz]

Old lumens says right up front he's old and grumpy ....So whats your excuse ???

I was excited to see a thread where i could rant and rave and then i realized all the ranters and ravers were here already ...RATS

Some old lights old and young whippersnappers like Gcbyran can agree on >>

http://wordcraft.net/flashlight7a.html

http://wordcraft.net/flashlight5.html

http://wordcraft.net/flashlight7.html here's a lively group (kill me first )

[BetweenRides]

No convention since 2008? Somebody needs to get crackin!

[gcbryan]

@ANTI-NOWHERE-LEAGUE

When China pays Iran $2 a barrel for oil and western governments pay China huge amounts of taxpayers money in aid and western companies move all their production to China and the USA factory of Gibson guitars is raided for legally importing exotic woods and told that they should move production to China by the same gun toting psychopaths that torched Waco and your government tells you that you have to compete with Chinese manufacturers who pay poor and poorly trained slaves a dollar a day and you still vote then you need to question your reality.

China is the model state for the World coming to us all as we are taken down.

Now that’s how you do a rant!

[Old-Lumens]

@oldbobk - you said it better than I could have.

Maglite does not care about modding and modders because we are about 0.005% of their sales. Their sales was built around Police, Fire & Security! A strong light that will not break. A plastic reflector and lens to help from breaking in a fall or a fight. A sturdy switch design for the same reason and an overall strong body/head to last through the issues that many police, firemen and security people see. Also it's doubles as a billy club if need be. That is the main theme of Maglites and that is where their sales are going. They are not about to make modifications to a light that sells more than any other single light, for a bunch of modders who don't even know a good general purpose, long lasting, useful light if it bit them on the butt.

But, the basic design still allows for modding and more mods have been done to Maglites than any other flashlight around. By modding, I don't mean "drop-ins" that aren't modding at all. They are just changing parts, like changing spark plugs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I, myself, don't really care for Maglites, other than their potential to be modded. I wouldn't use a stock Mag for personal use, but then again, I wouldn't pick one of the budget lights either. I'm not going to buy a $65 light or anything expensive. It might be great, but I won't like something and I will want to do something to it, so why buy an expensive light that I'm going to end up modding anyhow.

I would like to say that my first post was incorrect and I did generalize way too much. Not all Chinese products are bad or of low quality. I personally have just not found a good one yet, but they must be there.

It all boils down to what you want and your preferences. It's interesting to see the different replies and the way people percieve things. The bad part of the internet is that we are (for the most part) strangers and anonymity can be a good or a bad thing.

I will also say that the first paragraph of this post was intended to rile the masses. It was not intended to offend anyone personally, nor was it directed at any one member.

Take everything with a grain of salt and you will not get as upset... but you will die of high blood pressure from all that salt!

[Chidwack]

I picked up a 3xD cell LED Maglight a few years ago. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. This light was the Cat's A$$ as far as I was concerned. I had been using Mini-Mag lights for years. I loved them. Just had to make sure I had plenty of AA batteries and extra light bulbs. I carried one on my side for years when I was guiding big game hunters here in the west. I own 3 of these Mini-Mag lights just in case I ever lose one. Got tired of changing bulbs and bought a LED insert for one of the Mini-mags. Improved battery life and gave me enough light to navigate in the woods at night without changing the bulb.

Fast forward: Bought my first high quality LED. Olight M20s. Are you kidding me? How do they get so much brightness and throw from such a small light? All of a sudden I'm a flashaholic. Didn't even know there was such a thing. Oh well, it's a lot cheaper than a gunaholic.

A look at my Mag Lights. My 3X D cell light isn't as bright as I thought it was. The little rubber cap over the clicky switch is gone. Who knows where or how that happened? Light still works but I never use it. Started playing with one of my Mini-Mags the other day. It's the one with the LED insert. I dropped the light onto the ground while I was playing with it. Don't know what happened but the light won't turn on now. So much for quality.

Chinese junk? Lots of it out there. Also plenty of diamonds in the ruff so to speak. My so called quality Chinese lights, Olight, Fenix, Jetbeam, Zebralight, Quark and Shiningbeam are all going strong. Don't feel like bad quality to me. I'm probably never going to do any moding. I could have bought Surefire I guess. I guess until I start having problems with my better Chinese lights there is no reason to spend the extra money for a Surefire. I'm happy with the lights I have.

[motodeficient]

After owning a solarforce, I see no reason I would ever need to own a surefire. Why pay more for the original when the clone is better and costs less. ( a lot less)

[Old-Lumens]

I think I'm too old school. I do remember that made in japan were fighting words. I feel the same about made in mexico and made in china. It's probably because I'm old, just like Maglites and I'm going to stay that way. All I know is that I can build every incandescent mod in a Mag (and I have, including HID). I can build every LED mod in a Mag and it's the most used for multiple emitters.

When I find a Chinese host light for $20, that can be modded with multiple emitters with a large head (52mm ID or bigger) for a large heatsink, has a Type III EDITED: Should have been Type II, not type III. Anodized finish, with very smooth threads, a side switch and a body the diameter of a "D" cell, so I can use all kinds of batteries in it, I will start putting all kinds of mods in it. Until then, it's Mags.

See I just absolutely hate those tailcap clickys. I want to hold my light in my hand down by my side, instead of having to cramp my arm holding it up at shoulder level to be able to use a tail switch. I know that's an old school attitude, but that's me.

That's only my opinion and I am not trying to say you should do it that way. I am just voicing my personal opinion. I feel spoiled that I can get a Maglite for $15-$20, but the rest of the world can't. I think if they could, the sales of Maglites would skyrocket!

Of course if that happened, Maglite would have to build a plant in China and shut down all North American operations.

[a1penguin]

If you spend a lot of time reading the reviews and forums, you can find the lights that are likely to be the winners amongst the crap. You get what you pay for. There are lots of decent quality lights that don't cost an arm and a leg: Solarforce, Romisen, Olight, 4Sevens, Shiningbeam, Eagletac, to name a few. You can spend a little bit more and get reasonable quality. You can't seriously thing you are going to get Surefire quality in a $25 light?!

Ditto batteries and chargers.

I started out with flashlights because I needed lights for riding my bike at night.... and I'm cheap. I now have many more lights than I can ever use. I have been lucky with my light selection. And some I purchased used on CPF Marketplace.

I think that the products I have received have been fair for the price I paid.

[robostud5000]

@Old-Lumens

When I find a Chinese host light for $20, that can be modded with multiple emitters with a large head (52mm ID or bigger) for a large heatsink, has a Type III Anodized finish, with very smooth threads, a side switch and a body the diameter of a “D” cell, so I can use all kinds of batteries in it, I will start putting all kinds of mods in it. Until then, it’s Mags.

you're saying that if you find a Chinese host light for $20 that has all of the above you would buy it? wouldn't it have to be $10-15? if it was $20, you could just get a Mag albeit with type II ano.

[Lensman]

@Old-Lumens

See I just absolutely hate those tailcap clickys. I want to hold my light in my hand down by my side, instead of having to cramp my arm holding it up at shoulder level to be able to use a tail switch. I know that's an old school attitude, but that's me.

Me too, especially with bigger lights. I don't mind a tailswitch quite so much on smaller lights, as I can click by stretching my thumb back. Still more awkward than a sideswitch as I have to shuffle my grip but at least it can be done one handed. Tail clickies on big multi cell torches seem nuts to me, and one of the reasons why I haven't yet bought one.

[mfm]

@gcbryan

There are many on here who have opinions of China who have never been there and even opinions on governmental policies that they don’t even understand.

Yep, and they have no clue about what they are talking about either. The most glaring example is the "Chinese government is subsidizing free shipping", obviously totally wrong since most products are shipped from Hong Kong which for all practical matters is not China.

Many other Asian countries have cheap shipping too, like Japan and Taiwan (Cheaper than mainland China from what I remember).

[Old-Lumens]

@robostud5000

@Old-Lumens

When I find a Chinese host light for $20, that can be modded with multiple emitters with a large head (52mm ID or bigger) for a large heatsink, has a Type III Anodized finish, with very smooth threads, a side switch and a body the diameter of a “D” cell, so I can use all kinds of batteries in it, I will start putting all kinds of mods in it. Until then, it’s Mags.

you're saying that if you find a Chinese host light for $20 that has all of the above you would buy it? wouldn't it have to be $10-15? if it was $20, you could just get a Mag albeit with type II ano.

I am saying if I found a Chinese Light that was the same in price as a Maglite, I would try one, just to see how it modded. I don’t know if I would keep using it, but I would try it.

I also corrected my post to read type II ano. Thought I wrote II, but I wrote III. Sorry.

[Old-Lumens]

@mfm

@gcbryan

There are many on here who have opinions of China who have never been there and even opinions on governmental policies that they don’t even understand.

Yep, and they have no clue about what they are talking about either. The most glaring example is the "Chinese government is subsidizing free shipping", obviously totally wrong since most products are shipped from Hong Kong which for all practical matters is not China.

Many other Asian countries have cheap shipping too, like Japan and Taiwan (Cheaper than mainland China from what I remember).

In 2001 my company took all of it’s plastics molding to China. The new plant there was exactly that, New. All new machines, all new building. Some of management were permitted (forced) to go to China, to see the operation. What I know for sure: There were catwalks in the whole building. There were “Guards” on those catwalks patrolling with sub-machine guns. The people worked 16 hour days and they never left the building. There was a seperate area with cement cubicles and the workers ate and slept there. That was their life! If that’s OK in China, then Fine. But I’ll be go*damned if we can compete with SLAVE LABOR, in any other country!!!

How do I know? Because when management came back, we had a very long meeting (a meeting where we drew the plant layout and where the machine gun guards were and where the cement cubicles were and everyone who had come back said the same thing), about what we could do, (Including closing our newly opened operations in China), because we were Appalled at the slavery there. Of course, the big owners (who were foreigners), told us to keep quiet or loose our jobs. I lost my job for pushing the issue with the owners.

How's that for a FU***ng rant!

[dorpmuller]

@Lensman

@Old-Lumens

See I just absolutely hate those tailcap clickys. I want to hold my light in my hand down by my side, instead of having to cramp my arm holding it up at shoulder level to be able to use a tail switch. I know that's an old school attitude, but that's me.

Me too, especially with bigger lights. I don't mind a tailswitch quite so much on smaller lights, as I can click by stretching my thumb back. Still more awkward than a sideswitch as I have to shuffle my grip but at least it can be done one handed. Tail clickies on big multi cell torches seem nuts to me, and one of the reasons why I haven't yet bought one.

Same here. With carpal tunnel and tennis elbow thrown in, tail switches now are an ergonomic horror. The only light now that's comfortable is a C cell Mag. Thank God they still make 'em, of course mine are all top fuel dragsters!

Rich