Planning an aspheric scratch build

if i even think thid might be a solution? backfeeeding mt ratio, in the spot diameter estimation? what the &^%$ is my answer supposed to be units wide? radians? see i was thinking millimeters…

nut… still… the WAY the equations are flipping around, and reciprocals of reciprocals back and forth? maybe the answer IS IN radians… i dont know…

and? i am about to come out of my “zone” and “lose it”… i need a bath… and sleep… butonly after i decide if i epic failed or walked on water…

i mean, these new equations? are “sort of” looking like the opposite equavelants back trhere….

anyone knoe if calling something a beam or a spot, indicated whether the anser is experessed in radians or millimaters?

all i know is, i am getting “realistic LOOKING” small collimatror lens figures out of this…

my brain is about to explode….

good night and god bless. i need a bath… and hey? atleast you guys got your answer… i just pray i got MINE.

(i wanna be able to define the collimator lens build, gawd dammit)

and? just in case i did walk on water? THESE collimator/focusing lens focal lengths? would be the puppies to look at ray traces… if i am even CLOSE to anything remotely resembling “right”? something might “pop out at you” on the ray traces.

keep in mind? you would want to use “these” focal length figures… and move them back and forth see if the rays started lining up cool, i guess? (i always assumed if things were working, you could just “see it” heppening in rays… i really dont know nothing though)

bed… bed… bed…. i’ll find out tomorrow how close i got, maybe…

how in the *&^% do we even “check my work” ?

Sedstar and Enderman,

Guys sometimes all maths and calculations means nothing without experiment. Lets build something out of available and known lenses scraps for cheap to get approximately close to something that we could call multi aspheric flashlight.

And just to mention old de domed XP-G2 S4 2B(R.I.P) was and remains the best throwing emitter and the most suitable emitter for fet driver setup.

Osram Oslon Flat could serve for smaller setup and it is fet driver friendly but it is XP-E2 size (so stick it on 70 + mm lenses and wow! Tiny laser :slight_smile: even with precoolimator ) but we have XP-E2 which after de doming should be same or better than that even at lower currents.

Djozz about Osram oslon flat black:
“Much encouraged by these results, I did a Brinyte B158 mod with this (very) led and a direct drive AK-47A+FET driver (ledboard glued to the pill with an as thin as I could make it layer of Arctic Alumina Adhesive to get the required electrical insulation between led-minus and pill) in the hope that it would crush the throw of the dedomed XP-G2 S4 2B led, but unfortunately it did not, I got ‘only’ 285kcd from the Oslon BLack Flat, with 322kcd for the S4 2B”

luminarium?

technically speaking… equations are equations.

assuming the following…

1) the given stated equations i worked with were correct?
2) if no one can detect any “algebra errors” in my flight plan?
3) if i didnt make some huge logic error in setting up my final solution?

the work should be “checkable”.

i am a “lot more confortable” with the mathematical modeling of the single lens zoomie…
the “way” i went about my (possible) solution of the pre-collimation calculations? flipa coin, i figure i could be totally right, or, totally off base…

i cant check my own work? i’m “in love with it” i need peer review…

but…my gut says i am “probably right” on the single lens model…. and that i cant rise above “50 percent” on the collimation equations…

but, “either or both” if they would be right? are now repeatable, and if right, i could use to find stuff. and this is ll assuming i wasnt “given errors” woth anything wrong in the edmunds scientific paper.

but… those “precollimaor” fogures? look reasonable…
which dont mean nothing, but still…

question?

what was that “height” that vinz claimed was the holy height for the precollimator? and what lens was the focusing lens? i mean rough focal length?

if i got close to THAT,a given working solution? that would be a slightly warm fuzzy feeling…

Here: Dereelight DBS with de-domed XP-G2 and pre-collimator lens | Candle Power Flashlight Forum

Everything he wanted to reveal is in that thread(4 years ago). Main lenses are Dereelight DBS which are same as nightmaster(V1 V2andV3) and I really don’t know nothing about focal lenght.

He said around 0,7mm from emitter and it is… The higher you’ll go the larger projection and larger lux drop therefore you must hit the sweet spot.

Vinz is the best modder in a world.

Edit: Right one are main Dereelight 50mm lenses Vinz used in mentioned build:

…and i have to entertain the NOTION that vinz would lead us all astray, on exactly “how”… this is his bread and butter, and his reputation as top dog on the line…

those pre collimation equations? they “compleyely” rely, one way or the other? on the RATIO, not on specific vales…. that much is obvious and evident form looking at them.

technically? a RATIO, has any possible (infinite) number of “solutions”… one you assume ONE, the other should be solveable?

thats the way i’m seeing it, though… giventhe forward focusing lens? you can calc the FL of the precollimator… and given the precollimator given? you can then calculate the new forward lens.

unless i am missing something. but if i am, i am not seeing it. (duh) why would i see it right now…lol

all right… my ego completely aside? I need this from you…

1) COMB thru my “work”. if i make any error in algebra? or in my trig “soh cah toa” descriptions? someone needs to POUNCE on me for it. if i dont stand to peer review? i dont have a CHANCE.

2) if no one can find an obvious “error? then theres a decent chance my math description of the single lens zoomie, best build might be an accurate model.

3) same thing in my “crazy man rantings” on the second set… if theres an algebra error? POUNCE on me. tiniest thing matters.

4) then, if anyone finds a “logic error”, i could have easily made a false logic assumption. if you think you see something? maybe you see something.

5) one major assumption i am making? is that all these equations? form a giant “tautology”, which of course i might be in huge error of that… the first set of equations, might not have anything to do with the second set, and i am making the giant intuitive/deductive step that they are.

6) on the initial one lens model? if the ray trace even remotely resembles anything in real life? then, we should be able to see SOMEthign in the ray traces… one lens should at least INDICATE something… and namely that “a bigger diameter lens wouldnt do more” if it reads like i think it does.

7) the second solution? flip a coin… at this point i cant know.

I’ve researched it, the XP-E2 curve starts dropping down much sooner than the flat black, at about 3A.
Everyone knows the old XP-G2 had the best intensity, but both djozz and saabluster tested a single flat black and it had higher intensity than the G2. Djozz probably got worse with the flat black due to not enough current due to the Vf. This is why I go with constant current controlled test results and not “in-flashlight” test results.

This is what saabluster had to say:
“Sample size of one in my tests.
Relative Beam intensity
2A
BF 1040
XPG2 942”

Nobody is talking about “lower currents” here, or inconsistent FET. The LED will be driven at the peak of it’s curve through constant current drivers. Since the black flat is not sold in sorted bins, I plan to purchase about 10 or more and bin them myself to find the optimal one. If Saabluster and DJozz got better intensity at the same current with a sample size of ONE led, I’m interested to see what a binned one can do.

Another plus is that the flat black doesn’t need to be dedomed, which will make testing all of them easier.

PS- when I do build this light, I will use coolaboratory liquid ultra, which is a liquid metal paste and performs much better than regular thermal pastes. The only thing that would beat it is soldering the MCPBC to the heatsink, which I would rather not do, ever :stuck_out_tongue:

mannnnnn. i hope i didnt screw the pooch royal, lol…

coolaboratory liquid ultra :question: sounds interesting and now I got to order it… :slight_smile:
I did soldering of mcpcb to brass pill but I did not notice any significant improvement over silver paste neither I noticed significant difference between copper, aluminum and brass pills (well up to 5A setups I probably can’t see any difference… At higher currents that variables could matter)

But Osram is still to tiny imho i even consider de domed XP-E2 to tiny for my regular setups (last time I used them was in Jacobs A60 reflector light since it was more than fine for Jacob stock driver that draw 2,2A of current and for some small aspherical builds, still have some of them).
It would need some crazy precoolimator to make it usable on 70+ mm size aspherics.

Waiting for delivery of lenses from surplus shed. I think I have a couple of two lens combination that should work nicely. One uses the 100mm 135mm fl that I ordered from fasttech and the other a 73mm 148mm fl from ss.

Good luck with lenses :+1:

tekwyzrd?

if you didnt follow the math i did in my long series of “work” posts? thats OKAY. But, at least listen to the implications… and what known evidence already exists, without going off half cocked… just a suggestion. I just dont want you spending a lot of money on “cool lenses” constantly, and maybe not getting the results you are expecting or looking for.

most of my lenses? i took things apart and salvaged them… over time, you get a lot that way, and doesnt cost you much…

i have been sitting on these “engineering paper” i posted about a while now (which no one yet, anywhere, has claimed to have read? i wish someone would just red them….sigh) anyways, most of my “Early talk” about 2 lenses?? is aimed at getting people to use the IDEA that 2 lenses can be combined to make a “compound lens” you can treat as a single new lens.

creating a new compound lens? is not BY ITSELF going to instantly give you any of the results you are looking for… knowing what you want to make, and having an idea how to go about it? are two different things.

now, nothing i did technically means anything YET, without any confirmation i didnt make any algebra or trig “mistakes”… but, until someone comes forward claiming anything? i can say this…

1) i am a lot more confident in the first set… the “modeling” of a single lens setup. at least for the first set? if “peer review” doesnt come along in a timely fashion? i am going to have to assume i am “alone” in this, and that its up to me to write another paper based on that, to “boil it down”… which will explain it as best i can, and allow anyone with high school “algebra”, and “trig” to understand what it says, and some “cookbook” problems to work thru, which will allow a lot of people to USE the information it gives you.

2) i spent a long time on another site? where we use lenses a lot? and no one would look at the engineering paper, i have had them a couple years now… all i get, is people saying “it makes my head hurt”. i just got sick and tired of waiting for “the right person” to answer the questions, and even though i personally feel i am “close but not best” at answering the call? it unfortunately seems that “so far? i am all you get”.

3) the engineers at edmunds optics? wrote that paper, to explain to people how to build better illumination systems… and in my opinion, so reduce “returns” on people buying things they think will do what they want and it doesnt.

4) i have been saying, for a long time? that there is some “misinformation” going around the flashlight zoomie world. That the information isnt “wrong” as much as its “misleading”, and that its giving people slightly askew ideas. Everyone keeps repeating that same information over and over again, like its “holy writ”… and its not. It pains me to say it? But, one of the favorite “catch phrases” needs to get a “make over”. Because it doesnt “jibe” with the engineers at edmunds optics. Blame them.

5) now? until you guys find a better more qualified person, to do my work, and to check it? you are stuck with me… and i cant wait to hand it off, but… until then? i can tell you this… i am NOT the worlds best math person. I only “had to” take a lot of math to “do my field” i used to be in. I honestly dont LIKE math, lol… its just a necessary evil to me. I was surrounded by other university students EXCELLING in better math classes than i could perform well in. Problem was? they cant explain it to someone else and help them… THATS what my “gift” at university was. I seemed to be one of the best at EXPLAINING what i “can do” to anyone else coming up and having trouble.

i cant run around the top levels of the math tree? but, any branch i am on, i can explain how to get where i am… thats what people at my university had a hard time understanding why i had to job i had in the mathematics lab? i clearly wasnt the best math student there, plenty others way better, why was i doing that job? simple… i was one of the best at EXPLAINING anything i understood to anyone else.

if my light bulb goes off? i can turn on the light bulbs around me, so we can all understand it and USE IT. this is what made me good at my software engineering job…

now that i went thru the first part of that paper? i can now begin to explain it all, what it means in practical terms for us… and the second part? making dual lens illuminators that “beat” single lenses (delta trace issues aside, lol) which we all know EXIST but we have trouble making them? i either understand them or understand them a lot better now… and i am in a position to describe them much better.

does anyone want this paper written in a new post? or, is this going to be like the last couple years, no one listens and ignores it all?

@sedstar I did read the document you linked and a bit more on the edmund site. Your post in the new thread is essentially what I was thinking. The order I placed was two lenses, selected based on that. I plan another order of three more.

I think info from this forum I’ll use in my future scientific essay next week. Set of ray traces later with different focal lengths on each lens can be really very interesting to my groupmates.

Superb thread.
Too bad the experiments with lenses of different strengths were not done. I may do them at some point.
Also, the conclusion:

is not really a fair one.
To make it fair, we shouldn’t compare one moderate lens vs. 2 moderate lenses but rather 1 moderate lens vs. 2 weak lenses. After seeing the traces I wouldn’t be surprised if it was possible to improve both intensity and output at the same time. At least with ideal lenses like the ones traced. :wink:

I have precoolimator lenses + main lenses that improve lumen for about 100% but lux output remains the same.

So I will claim that 2 lenses could have same coolimation properties as a single lens but with big advantage of increasing lumen output or enlarging main beam projection.

Still collecting components and materials but the project continues as the RPG-100.