Whiter but still no match for the 6000-6500K of LED. If I care for night stadium level of lighting, I would go with HID. I’m perfectly contented with my setup and if this set ever fails, I’d go with the same lights again.
Ewww.
Umm, sorry. But I’m hard-pressed to do CW in a flashlight, nfw would I get CW headlights if I had any choice in the matter.
4000K-4500K would be about my limit for headlights.
I’ve seen those “bug-eye” LED headlights in some newer cars. Ugh.
“C’mon, man, look how white they are!!”
“Umm, ya mean how blue they are??”
Naw, no thanks.
Maybe if they at least come out with high-CRI lights, or better yet, run 219Bs or something…
Do you think sunlight is blue as well?
In daytime, yeah, kinda. It’s noticeable on white objects that are indirectly lit (eg, in shade).
At night, 6500K is kinda hideous. Browns and reds are muted, take on a dull grayish quality. So out in the sticks, watching for brown things like trees, deer, etc, they’ll look muted. Red stop-signs will also look dull.
Warmer lights bring out those colors and make them “pop”. They’re just more vivid.
Can someone help me out here? Before anyone sends me hate mail, know that I love LED as much as everybody else here. My whole house is converted, and has been for 3 years or so. I surely believe in the merits of LED’s. But what would one gain by converting automotive headlights to LED?
Halogen last quite some time during normal usage.
The decreased power consumption of LED is really a non-issue in an automotive application.
The negatives really seem to outweigh the positives here. Such as:
Heat dissipation
Cost
Reflector placement/design issues
Again don’t kill me for asking, but I’ve been curious about this for quite some time.
Basically they would have more light output and a better color temp then Halogen.
Take for example proper HID’s vs Halogen. There is no comparison in the beam. It is soooo much nicer to drive with good HID’s over normal Halogen, there is simply 4-5x as much light on the road and a better beam as well.
LED’s are simply the next step, they do reduce the power consumption, although this is not a big deal in this case.
They have better CRI in most cases then HID but the real benefit is the instant on of the LED’s compared to the HID and (assuming you can keep the heat in check) the much longer lifespan.
A well designed LED should last the life of the car.
I don’t mind HID but the warm up time and inability to “flash” them is rather annoying.
Stock Halogen is around ~700-800 lumens compared to an HID of around 3000 lumens and LED of 4000. Pretty easy to see why they would be better for driving at 60mph+.
Oh, no hate coming your way scotlarock. You BLF Michigan high powered flashlight toting human! :sunglasses: That is a good question. I scratch my head a little, but that’s ok.
You have been to, or seen pictures of a race track, correct? It’s there that humans take things several step further, than the desk sitting accountants, insurance executives, and corporate leaders. It is there that HP and performance are taken to the edge, to see just where that edge is.
This ‘edge’ can be found in countless fields of endeavor. Whether it be Guns, Slingshots >
Race cars, Flashlights, Knives, Chainsaws, Lawnmowers, Tractors, etc. The sky is the limit, if you have to passion for it.
- “But what would one gain by converting automotive headlights to LED?”
Just one example could be, that some people drive in Iowa, where the Deer seemingly come out of nowhere, in the dark of the evening. 
If one does not drive at this time of the day, for instance. Then I can see why they would not imagine needing anything with more performance.
Some people never leave the city, and cannot even remember when the last time was, that they had their headlights on high beam. Different strokes, for different folks, in different locations and circumstances.
Then there is a group of people who like to keep up, or live on or near, the cutting edge of Tech. Whether it be the latest and greatest in Flashlights, Smartphones, LED Headlights, Batteries, Electric Cars, Cameras, etc. It’s just a matter of, what’s next?
At one point in time. Many people were perfectly happy with sealed beam headlights too. Now we can simply twist out a Halogen or LED light, quickly and effortlessly. Changing out for Color, CRI, Lumen Count, Burnt Out, etc.
What’s next? Some people are part of ‘What’s next’. Some people find out that same day, or the following day. While other people find out months or years later.
A detailed look at the performance of the 2017 Cadillac XT5’s LED headlight system.
Published on Aug 17, 2016
03:45 minutes
- “Can we just get vehicles with decent headlights?”
Only one out of 31 midsize cars studied by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, had headlights it considered “good,” according to its study recently released.
“Contrary to what people might think, poor headlight performance is not exclusive to cheaper cars. IIHS found that many of the industry’s luxury midsize cars perform just as poorly as mainstream models, or even worse, with a luxury BMW model posting the lowest score.”
It’s more than a convenience problem, writes Nathan Bomey, of USA Today. Visibility issues create a safety hazard, ranging from excessive glare to insufficient illumination.
Taken directly from the USA Today article >
“With about half of traffic deaths occurring either in the dark or in dawn or dusk conditions, improved headlights have the potential to bring about substantial reductions in fatalities,” IIHS said.
John Whiteside, 54, of Rock Hill, Calif., said excessive glare from oncoming vehicles is a big problem when he drives his 2002 Toyota Camry. “I have to literally turn my head a little bit to look away,” Whiteside said. “It can blind you.”
The study also brought attention to the fact that U.S. auto-safety regulators have left headlight regulations largely untouched for a half century, thus prohibiting certain new technologies that would light the roadway better while reducing glare.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, responding to the IIHS report, noted that its proposed overhaul of its five-star safety ratings will depend partially on vehicles’ use of lower-beam headlights, semi-automatic beam switching and amber rear turn signal lights — technologies that are supposed to improve visibility for the driver and other motorists.
“Basically, we agree headlights can and should be stronger,” NHTSA spokesman Bryan Thomas said.
Since it’s the auto industry, there are often many different headlight options available through various packages on vehicles. So IIHS evaluated every possible combination in several scenarios, including traveling straight, veering left sharply or gradually and veering right sharply or gradually.
After assessing 82 possible combinations in 31 vehicles, the non-profit said only one — the Toyota Prius v with the highest trim level — qualified as “good.” That light combo is available only with the advanced technology package, which includes LED lights and high-beam assist. The standard model, which comes with halogen lights and no high-beam assist, gets a poor rating.
Eleven models’ best option qualified as “acceptable,” while nine were “marginal” and 10 were “poor.”
If want to read more of this article, you can find it here > https://usat.ly/2sEcDDL
Hang on… PM hatemail on the way… 
Not the best, especially if you switch to harder-driven filaments like the H9, but not terribly inconvenient, either.
You never lost an alternator on a long trip, have ya?
I literally got back to the end of my block and was just trying to back up maybe 50yds before everything just upped and croked on me.
Then again, I was running 90W/130W H4s in 4×6 format lights…
For headlights, absolutely.
Especially the last one. What good is it to throw twice the lumens as the original filament, only to have most of them scatter and be lost, or worse, throw light where they shouldn’t. Think of glare to oncoming cars, getting tickets, etc.
All the other LEDs I put into my cars, at least match and in most cases outperform the stock hotwire bulbs. Side-markers are as bright as I can get ’em (and still fit), turns/tails/backups are all brighter than the original bulbs.
Then again, they’re meant to scatter light in a wider swath, for maximum visibility. So just go for power. As I mentioned, I had great luck with the JDMs I’m using, and “standard” 194s in yellow and red can be had which are way brighter than (filtered) hotwire 194s.
My only complaint about “dual filament” LED bulbs (xx57 replacements) is that the difference between low and high is a paltry 3:1, so parking lights are wonderfully bright, but turn signals are only a smidge brighter, visually. I’d rather have them turn down the low setting to have maybe a 10:1 difference, so that the turn signals will stand out more.
The H9 is only 65W and belts out around 2100lm, and the filament is exactly in the same position as the H11.
My headlights have the built-in shields in front of the bulbs, so there’s no danger in doing the swap.
3100K, 2100lm, only 10W more than stock? I’ll take it!
Best of all, they look like stock bulbs at a quick glance. Nothing to attract unwanted attention…
I put leds headlights in my reflector based housings and got a huge increase in output (like 4x) along with the factory beam pattern. Here’s how:
Here is a similar conversion on my H4 bulbed bike.
https://vfr.bikersoracle.com/index.php?threads/led-headlight-bulb-upgrade.132095/
The key to getting a good pattern is this:
It’s been about a year since I converted my car and some of the LEDs are starting to fail (I drive a ton at night) so I switched back to Silverstar 9007s and they absolutely suck! I can’t tell they are on most of the time and they are so yellow. :confounded:
Now I am on the hunt for some 2017 model lights. I’ve ordered 3 kits so far. The first was supposed to use Philips Luxeon ZES chips, but they used something different. A quick lux measurement at 18” with my old led lights, Real Luxeon showed 2500 lumen lux, while the new ones showed 600 lumen (same visable brightness to my Silverstar as I drove around with one each in my car so I could compare them). Horrible. I sent them back. Hopefully the next 2 sets will be better.
I will try and answer many of the questions mentioned in above posts as soon as I get time.
bottom line is there is no pnp led that will outperform factory led’s or a proper hid projector retrofit. any led that is placed into a factory halogen housing may have a more desireable cosmetic appearance, but the performance will be poor. if you want performance, perform a proper retrofit with projectors. everyone claims huge increases but won’t provide wall shots other than ones from the person trying to sell the “kit”. also i’d like to see lux readings of the 4x increase
Keep in mind that some companies qoute way more output than delivered. You have to look in the description and it might say 160w kit, 80 watt per bulb. This would be super bright, btw, if it were accurate. That’s just exaggerated figures like a 3,000 lumen C8 for $12. Marketing crap.
20 to 25 actual watts is more than enough. It’s like 4 times brighter than a 55w bulb (roughly speaking). I tried a kit that was supposed to be 25w (rated at 80w per bulb, but I knew that was very exaggerated) against one I think was actually 25w and it had 1/4 the output. Closer to 6 watt and was about the same brightness as my halogen Silverstar bulbs. 6 actual watts would have no problem staying cool, but you won’t like that output.
I don’t like the idea of fans either, but “good” led bulbs are so much better and safer I’d be willing to buy a new set every year if I had to. I do NOT want to go back to incandescent.
I think output and beam pattern are higher priorities than fan cooling. Still, I’m trying out 3 different passive cooling bulbs and so far one failed as far as output (as well as the leds being a bit out of place moving the beam downward).
These are the ones I tried recently that failed. The close up shots of the light show Philips chips, but if you zoom in on this shot, they are something else. I was hoping for at least 20w per bulb and got 6 watt instead. Too good to be true. Had to return them. When asked why the leds were not correct the company said those were old pictures. Yeah right.
All this is always going to be the problem trying to “retrofit” LED headlights. It’s 20lbs of crap in a 5lb bag. All that light needs to be concentrated into a very small area for the beam to be worth a damn, and that means high heat concentrated in that area.
At least with marker lights, tails, even brake lights, you can have an array of a few dozen 5050s and it’ll still throw out a decent amount of light.
A headlight has to have more power than all that, concentrated into a teeny tiny area. The problem’s not really power, but power density.
You can put them on a nice thick Cu slab, but that thickness is going to shift the LEDs from their optimum (if not necessary) position.
Hey, I love LED lighting, but headlights (as far as retrofitting halogen bulbs) is one area where the tek is still way premature and inadequate.
If you can get factory led lights then more power to you, but this is irrelevant to the conversation.
I had a projector retrofit in my car for several years, but it was only a mild increase in performance. Yeah, the cutoff is sharper, but it depends on the projector size and bulb style used. I had to run a small diameter projector to fit in my headlight housing that took a very slim bulb. The output was not as good as a factory bulb would have produced. So in my case the projector retrofit was only a small improvement. Led bulbs in a stock housings were actually much better.
I did have to tweak the bulbs rotation and depth to get a factory beam pattern on low. Maybe this is not what you classify as pnp? If so, then you may be correct, but have you tested every option on the market? I don’t think so. So you have to keep looking. Maybe the new 2017 bulbs will be more pnp and need less adjusting.
So you shouldn’t make blanket statements.
This is another blanket statement and is untrue. You need to educate yourself, which I am trying to do. Just look at the beamshots from my bike install which uses a fluted reflector housing. Same exact pattern and cutoff. I had to adjust the bulbs rotation and depth to get it just right, then tightened down the setscrews. So far this seems the norm as opposed to just sticking the lights in and hoping for the best.
Is this in reference to my post were I used the 4x number?
I’m trying to help people here, not sell them a product. I already sent the lights back, but even if I still had them I would not bother to take pictures as its not important. I measured that. If you don’t believe me, it’s no big deal to me. On axis with one side of the bulbs. Each bulb using 4 tiny emitters. Same distance. One measured 250 lumen and one measured 60 lumen. Simple as that. I posted a picture of the kit so others can avoid it.
I will be testing more kits as well and will post my findings here. Hopefully I can find a good kit, if not you’ll know what to NOT to buy. Lol
Take a look at the Philips Luxeon ZES chips which I know are great. There is also the Seoul Y19 chip and Philips CSP flip chip, which I will be trying out soon. These 2 are new for this year.
You are right in that this led headlight technology is still in its infancy. It’s constantly improving though. Just like with flashlights, all cars will eventually transition from incandescent to LED. It’s just a matter of time.
Those are good chips, but notice that they are arranged in a square shape. This may effect your beam pattern depending on whether it is in a reflector housing or a projector housing. Projectors seem to better handle “non filament shaped” sources due to their design. In a reflector housing it may not give you a factory beam pattern.
There are led lights that use that same emitter, but lined up in a row to duplicate the size and shape of the filament. That’s what I would try and find if I had a reflector housing.
It’s trickier for me because my lights are 9007 and use dual filaments. The kits using the Luxeon chips in 2016 were not made in the 9007 pattern. They were still using the H4 pattern and I had to readjust my bulbs to match the low beam position. For 2017 I see a few kits that have a proper 9007 arrangement.
I’m jumping into the fray as well. Lol.
Those 100 watt kits are not real. Just marketing hype.
The copper braid does not attach to anything. It is just spread out and exposed to the surrounding air.