Three Oslons tested: 1) latest gen. Oslon Black Flat 2) SSL80 4000K 92CRI latest gen. 3) SSL80 4500K 96CRI 1 gen. before latest

Looking forward for this test.
Djozz recently build another flat black in Supwildfire reflector and he got 350kcd while I with old xp-g2 s4 2b(previous throw king) in my best Supwildfire build got around 300kcd (when I calculate lux meter difference data that I was given from Djozz). But I probably did not had the best xpg2s42b here.

BTW where did you bought them? Can you share us a link? Maybe I would like to give it a try in a smaller aspheric and of course with precoolimator.

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OSRAM-Opto-Semiconductors/LUW-HWQP-8M7N-EBVF46FCBB46-8E8H/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt82OzCyDsLFM%252b7yORtb%2FhA55GIye8lCf8%3D
Pretty sure mouser.com has them too if you’re in the US.
HWQP is the one you want, and no place sells individual bins, they’re all a group from 8M to 7N so to get the most out of the LED you need to buy a lot and bin it yourself :frowning:

Thanks Mr. Enderman.

“They’re all a group from 8M to 7N so to get the most out of the LED you need to buy a lot and bin it yourself ”
Yes this is certainly disadvantage… Especially for guys like myself that are selling their mods.
I know Osram has great stuff like 4715AS emitter(with that emitter they listened to customers and made superior product to previous 4715S) , and if they will further develop this led and maybe even enlarge it will be a winner.

I read this part in the datasheet:

The above Type Numbers represent the order groups which include only a few brightness groups (see page 5). Only one group will
be shipped on each packing unit (there will be no mixing of two groups on each packing unit). E. g. LUW
HWQP-8M7N-ebvF46fcbB46-8E8H means that only one group 5N, 6N, 7N, 8M, N6 will be shippable for any packing unit.

If I interpreted this correctly, I think this means that for a single reel of 2000 LEDs, they will all be the same bin.
So buying 1 or 10 LEDs won’t matter because chances are they will all be the same.
Since the distributors don’t test the LED to find out which bin it is, even if you could afford it ($4k per reel) you would be buying 2000 LEDs of a mystery bin, and they will all perform the same.
:frowning:
Assuming that the distributors only order in quantities of 2000, it may be possible to wait until their stock is near a multiple of 2000, and then purchase a bunch of LEDs at once and have a chance of getting LEDs from two reels.
For example, mouser (canada) has 8036 in stock, so maybe if I bought 72 LEDs I would get 36 from one reel and 36 from another reel. This would effectively double the probability of getting a good bin.
.
On the other hand, I have seen stuff like 6N7N instead of 8M7N so I think certain places can sell a smaller range of bins. 8M to 7N is from worst to best, however 6N to 7N are the two best bins.
https://octopart.com/luw+hwqp-6n7n-ebxd46ebzb46-osram+opto-74739048
It says 0 stock, but maybe there are other places that sell only the best 6N or 7N bins, and then you have higher chances of getting a good LED bin :slight_smile:
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As of right now though, pretty much everyone who has tested a flat black has found it to give higher intensity than an XP-G2 though, so I still have high hopes of great performance even if I get a bad bin.

Maybe someone should tell Hank from IO store(or any other led store owner here) to get them. They probably have good connections and can demand the best of manufacturers and if they’ll do that I don’t even doubt they will sell 2000 or more pcs in no time.
This emitter is good even if it draws only 3,6A with fet driver while giving same or higher numbers than old XP-G2 cause battery will last longer and light will run cooler in small and not so chunky aspheric lights.
So Djozz with one mod got 285kcd (Brinyte B158 fet driver modded, 3,6A draw) and unbeatable 350kcd record with Supwildfire, direct drive mod and 4,5A current draw. I got around 320kcd with good old XP-G2 S4 2B after adding Djozz lux meter measuring parameters for same budget lux meter we both have.
So this is emitter with great potential. Really wish that Cree starts producing super throwy XP-G2(or however will they call them) flat emitters. That would shorten mod work time for us.

The guys from flashlight stores simply buy their LEDs from places like mouser or digikey or some cheaper chinese places.
The manufacturers only sell in bulk to distributors, and I don’t think any store like mountain electronics or elsewhere is going to buy 2000 LEDs of one bin.
I asked (richard I think?) from mountain electronics if he could get some a while ago, but he never did :frowning: so I bought them myself and will attempt to reflow it.

Anyway, I’ve started my project, I just need to reflow the LEDs now, find out what the max current they can take is, and order an appropriate driver for it.

Did you used slightly press from above emitter to push all excess solder out and for better heat transfer?

Edit:
Upss… You did not started yet with reflowing… Be careful. Eagle eye and steady hand will help and I would really go with Old Lumens method on those tiny ones (benchvise+soldering iron).

Thanks for the tip.
I was thinking of using a heat gun instead of a soldering iron so I don’t get bits of solder stuck underneath the MCPCB.

But you will not have any bits of solder beneath if you use very thick and clean flat soldering iron tip.
And even if you’ll have some use fine steel wool 0000 grade or fine sandpaper to remove that, and that will even help for better sticking of isolator thermal compound like artic alumina. When I do stuff with AA (mostly when I am using osram IR leds) I fine sand noctigon, if I use artic silver thermal paste I leave noctigon as it is (gold and clean).

Heat gun? Good luck with that cause you’ll need it.

Luck?
I thought most people used hot air when reflowing SMD components?

Just do it the way you like and if you fail try mentioned OL method :+1:

I am looking forward for tests.

BTW Heat gun and hot air station are not the same to me.

Yeah I meant the hot air thingy that’s smaller than the gun.
I will try one the OL method first, if that doesn’t work I will try with hot air + solder paste.

I use a hot plate and an old pan…works great for me.

I couldn’t use hot air, was too slow and not hot enough. Ended up using soldering pen old-lumens style.

The first time I reflowed it, the LED pads didn’t connect, so I tried again but forgot I rotated the PCB 180 degrees and accidentally soldered the LED backwards and blew it while testing xD
Luckily I bought 10 of them!
Next two LEDs I reflowed worked well.

I did two LEDs, since I only had two MCPCBs.
I was short on time, so the second LED (which I did a better reflow on) I only tested 3A-5A.
Here are the results:

As you can see, the second LED was reflowed a bit better and is getting higher output.
The X axis is amps, the Y axis is relative lux, so you just use that number for comparing. Ambient light was 7 on the y-axis.

As you can see, my large CPU heatsink with fan cooling and MX-4 thermal paste does not peak at 4.5A, or even 5A.
My power supply could not do over 5.2 but the output seems that it would keep going and peak at about 6-7A.
Very good results IMO, and driving it at 6A should give me even higher intensity than in DJozz’s tests since it won’t start dropping at 4.5A :smiley:
.
REMEMBER I measured this is just for me, since my “flashlights” use extreme cooling. For realistic results in a normal flashlight don’t pay attention to this graph :wink:

Nice results Enderman, well done!

The max at higher amps can also be explained by a better led, by accident or not. My led (just 1) was tested already 1.5 years ago, Osram may have improved the thermal properties in the meantime without officially calling it a new version. I say that because there is indeed a new version out, the Black Flat S, but just in multiled form, with better thermal performance. They may just used that improvement for the single die version too without telling.

True, definitely the possibility of a better bin or revision.
What kind of cooling setup did you use in your tests?
My heatsink was at least 100W of cooling capacity, with a 120mm fan and copper plate and heat pipes.
MX-4 is also some of the best thermal paste that isn’t liquid metal.
.
In the actual flashlight build I will be using liquid metal, it even more heat conductive than solder :slight_smile:
I would totally buy a 7 or 8A buck driver from MTN electronics, if they had one :frowning: seems like the Black Flat could take it.

Thanks Mr. Enderman,
Properly re flowed and pressed led(solder as thin as possible) will perform better than one that is re flowed without press and has thicker solder layer between led and mcpcb. That is imho and ime and with classic lux meter test of same types of led I did years ago.

I am really interested how would they perform in single cell FET lights.

Mr. Enderman any chance you could start up group buy for this led? Or any of you guys of course?


Ha :slight_smile: Djozz is not joking when he does his test :+1:

Yeah I did press the second LED down better, that could be it.
Either way it does seem like all the LEDs are the same bin like it says in the datasheet.

They will not be good for direct drive, unless you are ok with less current.
At 4.2v the LED only took 2.5A, and to get it to 5A it required 5v.
Direct drive with a single cell would make it run at ~2-2.5A which isn’t very high.
I recommend a CC buck driver for people who want to drive this LED hard.
(at least this is what the power supply showed me, I didnt have time to check it with a voltmeter)
On second though, the 3ft of wire might have made a difference, I bet the voltage drop at the LED is actually less than what the power supply showed.
Maybe like 1v less? that would be more similar to DJozz’s results…

Nice, I think my setup did provide better cooling than that since it didn’t have a huge copper column that heat had to travel through.
What thermal paste do you usually use?