New 4XP Noctigon MCPCB for quad optic

This version is free for non commercial use. Newer than M43 firmware version has been developed but it’s not wide spread and avaible only locally to support diy community. Indigo and M43 schemes are almost the same, disadvantage of the fist one is Attiny85 which has not really good built-in amplifier vs Attiny45, that’s it.

40W driver costed me 20-25$ using best end components from digikey and local stores. Here’s original Indigo interface description. Simple words there are 3 main modes with discrete and smooth regulation.

Yes, as you said there are many types of open source licences, this question should be discussed with the author. I’ll try to clarify this topic. What’s your goal, you wanna share drivers and do bussiness? At the moment we’re not allowed to do this.

Yep… that was crazy days :slight_smile: Got a tons of experience.

I don’t have a D4 to measure yet, but as far as I can tell it will likely go from about 1 lumen (maybe lower?) up to about 3000 lumens (ish, depends on emitter type and battery type). My light box maxes out at about 3000 lumens, and I would not be surprised if the D4 exceeds that. If it does, I’ll measure it in some other way.

There is no gap in the ramp. It is a smooth slope all the way from 1 lm to ~3000 lm, with 150 steps between.

This is only an estimate, based on my Q8 prototype which should be very similar, but I expect the 150 output levels will be very similar to this:

1: 1.00 lm
2: 1.30 lm
3: 1.64 lm
4: 2.05 lm
5: 2.52 lm
6: 3.05 lm
7: 3.66 lm
8: 4.34 lm
9: 5.09 lm
10: 5.94 lm
11: 6.87 lm
12: 7.89 lm
13: 9.01 lm
14: 10.23 lm
15: 11.56 lm
16: 13.00 lm
17: 14.55 lm
18: 16.22 lm
19: 18.02 lm
20: 19.94 lm
21: 21.99 lm
22: 24.18 lm
23: 26.51 lm
24: 28.99 lm
25: 31.61 lm
26: 34.39 lm
27: 37.33 lm
28: 40.43 lm
29: 43.70 lm
30: 47.14 lm
31: 50.76 lm
32: 54.55 lm
33: 58.53 lm
34: 62.70 lm
35: 67.06 lm
36: 71.63 lm
37: 76.39 lm
38: 81.36 lm
39: 86.54 lm
40: 91.93 lm
41: 97.55 lm
42: 103.39 lm
43: 109.46 lm
44: 115.76 lm
45: 122.30 lm
46: 129.08 lm
47: 136.10 lm
48: 143.38 lm
49: 150.91 lm
50: 158.70 lm
51: 166.76 lm
52: 175.08 lm
53: 183.67 lm
54: 192.54 lm
55: 201.70 lm
56: 211.14 lm
57: 220.86 lm
58: 230.89 lm
59: 241.21 lm
60: 251.83 lm
61: 262.76 lm
62: 274.01 lm
63: 285.57 lm
64: 297.45 lm
65: 309.65 lm
66: 322.19 lm
67: 335.06 lm
68: 348.26 lm
69: 361.81 lm
70: 375.71 lm
71: 389.96 lm
72: 404.56 lm
73: 419.52 lm
74: 434.85 lm
75: 450.55 lm
76: 466.62 lm
77: 483.07 lm
78: 499.90 lm
79: 517.11 lm
80: 534.72 lm
81: 552.72 lm
82: 571.12 lm
83: 589.93 lm
84: 609.14 lm
85: 628.77 lm
86: 648.82 lm
87: 669.28 lm
88: 690.17 lm
89: 711.50 lm
90: 733.25 lm
91: 755.45 lm
92: 778.09 lm
93: 801.17 lm
94: 824.71 lm
95: 848.71 lm
96: 873.17 lm
97: 898.09 lm
98: 923.48 lm
99: 949.35 lm
100: 975.69 lm
101: 1002.52 lm
102: 1029.83 lm
103: 1057.64 lm
104: 1085.94 lm
105: 1114.75 lm
106: 1144.05 lm
107: 1173.87 lm
108: 1204.20 lm
109: 1235.05 lm
110: 1266.42 lm
111: 1298.32 lm
112: 1330.75 lm
113: 1363.71 lm
114: 1397.22 lm
115: 1431.27 lm
116: 1465.87 lm
117: 1501.02 lm
118: 1536.73 lm
119: 1573.00 lm
120: 1609.83 lm
121: 1647.24 lm
122: 1685.22 lm
123: 1723.78 lm
124: 1762.93 lm
125: 1802.66 lm
126: 1842.99 lm
127: 1883.91 lm
128: 1925.44 lm
129: 1967.57 lm
130: 2010.31 lm
131: 2053.66 lm
132: 2097.64 lm
133: 2142.23 lm
134: 2187.46 lm
135: 2233.32 lm
136: 2279.81 lm
137: 2326.94 lm
138: 2374.72 lm
139: 2423.15 lm
140: 2472.24 lm
141: 2521.98 lm
142: 2572.38 lm
143: 2623.45 lm
144: 2675.19 lm
145: 2727.61 lm
146: 2780.71 lm
147: 2834.50 lm
148: 2888.97 lm
149: 2944.14 lm
150: 3000.00 lm

^ Aha! And the intervals are probably made to make it (quasi) visually linear I guess?

I would love it if you could talk to the author. :slight_smile:

My goal is a healthy collaborative community with a solid foundation of open projects that anyone can use and build on. The idea is that a rising tide raises all ships. Instead of trying to make any individual ship taller, I hope to raise the tide for everyone.

It’s nice to have things which are free for non-commercial use, but it’s nicer to have things which are free for any use. If someone takes my code, modifies it, and sells it, I am not harmed. Especially with a “copyleft” license like the GPL, which requires people to give back their changes under the same license. Share and share alike. It may seem strange, but it has proven itself to be a very effective tactic in an information economy. Even traditional institutions like banks are catching on these days:

As someone in the study put it: Open-source makes sense because “You get what you pay for, everyone gets what you pay for, and you get what everyone pays for.”

Not really.
The higher the output, the smaller the % increase per step up.

Thanks. I just put the data in excel, and in single log it’s a declining line. Not sure if it’s supposed to be a straight line in single log to be visually linear; I have to look that up.

There are a few different theories about what makes the best “visually linear” brightness curve. The one I showed was a cube-root method, as recommended by CPF’s “selfbuilt”.

However, if you don’t like the cube-root curve, the firmware repository has a ramp calculator to generate other curves. It includes square root, cube root, fifth root, natural log, and base-two log… or it’s pretty easy to add others by changing only two lines of code.

I expect it will probably be reasonably easy to reflash the D4; just take out the driver and use a SOIC8 clip with avrdude on the MCU. So you should be able to change the ramp shape or change the interface entirely, if desired.

^ Great, thanks! Interesting… I don’t find myself reflashing firmware… or tinkering with drivers… Who knows in a couple of years…

Same mistake again. You are not able to give lumens because you never know actual conditions that influence on output.
Of course smooth ramping is very usefull for flashlight which cant work longer than 30sec from start :smiley: .
And no steps is great achievent when any level will loose several % of output every minute :person_facepalming: .
Just imagine that youve bought car, and seller claimed that it can go 100mph. But after some time you realize that this can be only reached with 95-100% tank load, with 50% tank load it cant go faster than 70mph. And there is no document which will show this feature, no method to calculate actual values.

In this analogy (it is always cars…) it is easy to see where you and some others differ from reality: you demand another safe and road-legal car (another Zebralight) while Hank now offers a drag racer (D4).

It is just different people who buys the two types, no reason to argue. It is Hank who made this choice, I’m sure also for commercial reasons, but I can just imagine that as many others he is attracted to small wow-lights as well :smiley:

I’m really looking forward to the D4 :slight_smile:

Im not with them :wink: . Im just trying to prevent some problems caused by claiming values that are not always repietable.
Drag racer dont need 18650 cell. Just imagine how many times you can turn it on (100%), wait until you cant hold it and then turn it off. New aspire 18350 capacity is more than enough for such using.

And that’s why some of us are getting 18350 tube too :slight_smile:

As stated, it’s an estimate. The actual output is complicated, but the estimate gives people a rough idea of what to expect.

You might have a point if the light only had “off” and “direct drive 100%” modes. Fortunately, there are 149 other levels in-between to cover a wide variety of situations. Unfortunately, exaggeration and polarization are almost never helpful, so I hope that can stop.

Levels 1 to ~64 are current-regulated with long runtimes, and are quite useful on a small light. Above that, the levels are partially regulated and partially direct-drive. The runtime graphs should look similar to the BLF A6, where high modes sagged over time, medium modes sagged but only a little, and the entire bottom half of the modes were very close to flat.

This method gives low and medium modes which are pretty stable and practical, while also giving good “wow” modes. So it can be practical or fun depending on what you want at the time. Is it a problem to have some fun modes?

Reviewers didn’t generally measure the lower half of the modes, because the runtime was too long, but the graphs for those are mostly just a flat horizontal line.

On a FET+N+1 driver, the regulated portion goes much higher, like 3A instead of 0.35A. So it can be regulated up to about 1000 lumens instead of just ~150. This doesn’t matter much to me because I normally use less than 150 lumens, but it’s nice to have sometimes.

You mean, like how the M43 can run at 100% without losing any output over time? Let’s find a runtime graph… (red line)

Maybe car analogies aren’t very relevant here.

The M43 does a pretty good job with power and thermal regulation (though the thermal regulation is a bit bumpy). However, virtually every flashlight sags quite a bit when running at 100%. And that’s okay. Some manage to get a flat graph on medium modes, which is nice. Others still sag a bit over time, which is not as good but usually not noticeable by eye. And both the M43 and D4 have regulation on low modes.

They are both good lights. I don’t understand why a few vocal people are upset about the D4. I expect I’ll enjoy mine quite a bit. :slight_smile:

I love those Aspire cells, it made all my 18350 lights worthwhile, it is my perfect size flashlight but the battery capacity always made me have mixed feelings about them.

That said, I think I will probably mostly use 18650 cells in the D4 because my current 18350 EDC is about the perfect version of the 18350 format, a Jaxman E2L shorty (bistro driver with R9080 Nichia’s), for me the D4 will not beat that one, but with 18650 battery, from the lights that I have, it will probably be the best in its class.

Runtimes couldnt be similar to blf A6 cause bigger current with same cell size.
Im not against fet, but small edc should have one regulated mode that gives such output that host can dispread in air. In this case, fet+4 amc with one separated amc could be great achivement in comparing with A6 driver. Right now (three years after) we cant see big difference in fet drivers.
Im dont have m43, but I think it is able to give near 100% output with 50% charged cells. Graph that you posted shows thermal regulation.

Can anyone confirm if the Emisar D4 will be sold on intl-outdoor? Or will it be sold exclusively to ME?
Hank not reply my question, from US the price of shipping is prohibitive for Europe.

Compared to the BLF A6, runtimes on the Emisar D4 — at the same lumen level — might actually be a bit longer. Four emitters are more efficient than one, producing more lumens per Watt. This may vary by emitter type though, so measurements are needed.

At maximum power, runtimes will be very short. This is normal for “hot rod” lights. If it pulls 15 amps from a 3Ah cell, it could drain the cell in 12 minutes under ideal conditions. During actual use it should be significantly longer though, because thermal step-down will reduce the power to safer levels.

I have a M43, and it does not deliver 100% output with 50% charged cells, even right after turning on. It does as well as can be expected, performing admirably, but no high-power light can be expected to do that. With current battery technology, it is like trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

Perhaps new battery tech will make this a thing of the past.

I think Hank plans to sell it at his site soon, but there are some details to work out first. He noticed something he’s not happy with in the first batch, and wants to change it. If things go well, it could maybe be available in a few days. Or it could take longer. I should find out more soon.

My order says “out for delivery” so it should be here later today. I’ll have a review up as soon as possible.

Thanks for the information ToyKeeper, I am sure that many people will be interested in UE for this light!
(I keep my eyes in your review) :beer:

:slight_smile:
But you cant manage lumen level. You can just choose pwm %.
3s×8A÷4P*(Vout/Vin)×1/85%=11×8/4×1×1.2~25W
Most high-drain cells will easily carry this power, there might be too rough cell voltage drop protection.