Policy on affiliate links in reviews?

It is morally incorrect to profit off others for personal benefit by not disclosing stuff like sponsorships, and monetized affiliate links are a type of sponsorship.

This is why it is now illegal in the US to make reviews or even youtube videos without stating the compensation you are receiving in the form of products or money.

WOW !

Compensation ?

Is the product you are reviewing considered compensation ?
And how is it all factored ?

Here is a common scenario … Lets say you are sent a $50 product ( Value $50 )
What is time worth ? Lets call it $20 an hour … A half decent job should earn you $20 an hour unless you work at McDonalds …
Lets say you put in 10 hours for the review just for the hell of it … That’s $200 in time you are owed …
Less the $50 for the product being reviewed …
Effectively putting you $150 in the rears ( out of pocket ) … Not even considering any costs that may be incurred … ( For those guys at the IRS )
So while a review may look all attractive from the outside , the reality is quite different .
If you want to get nitty gritty ! Most reviewers are actually out of pocket unless sent something truly valuable …
So if you want to get out your pocket calculator , you may realize that most people do this for the enjoyment ( some people enjoy Golf ) . Not out of any sense of getting $$ and building up a Ferrari fund , that’s for Doctors and Lawyers and such . I don’t know that you could even fund a bicycle doing the odd product review … Again , this perception that people are earning from other people ( wait - that’s how the world works )

You don’t earn from the click on the link , you earn if people buy … And the compensation for that might be (?)
If it’s an affiliate link from a review ( I don’t know that you earn much of anything )

I do know that if you participate in their affiliate SALES programs ( promotions ) you might earn (?) this is variable depending on your affiliate level ( your graded ) . So the higher your graded the more you earn and I can’t remember what the high earners get … As long as some one is doing nothing illegal , as for this moral stuff ? There is an onion I don’t want to peel … Whoa !!! That’s a loaded gun …
And the problem with that is does one apply the same moral code to oneself as one applies it to others ?? ( Most people don’t )

I had to check !
I have earned $15.50 … ( Youtube video’s ) I don’t know that I could buy anything Ferrari for that … ( Maybe a Cap for the tire valve ? )
And I don’t even want to know how much I have spent putting video ( reviews n stuff ) on youtube , I would be lucky to have gotten a 1% return …
I guess some one owes me $1500 …
I really don’t know about this EARNING ( BS ) … I don’t think that for the average joe six pack earning is the motivation … If it was , would we not all be doing Girls with Guns video’s ? Now that guy EARNED Ferrari money ! ( No he really did ) . Simple concept ! Girls in bikini’s , large breasted girls ! Shooting guns with lots of jiggling when the gun went Boom ( slow motion even ) … A very simple , BASE , idea that earned $$
Yeah don’t know about the morals of it , but that guy made green . And in the end the only person hurt was him ! ( Was he shot in the head making a video ? Was that karma ? )

I just dont know , I have been doing reviews for a long time and I have never earned . If anything it has simply been a labor of love . And over that time ( must be like 25 years now ) , there has been this vocal minority that hates people getting product to review . Where this Ax came from and why people need to grind it ? This forum belongs to sb56637 , anything and everything else said is neither here or there … I have a review to finish .

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

"It's pretty obvious that affiliated links give people the opportunity to post items they usually have no personal experience with for the express interest of putting pennies into their pockets. It proves to what lengths a person will go through in grubbing up a few extra dollars. Affiliate links are notoriously banned in most forums for this reason." - FlashPilot

“There are none so blind as those who will not see.” - This I agree with! :wink:

I wonder why when unfounded hatred for affiliate links in general is called out, someone always seems to bring up this one extreme example. Is it because that’s the lone case that warrants any animosity? :innocent:

I just don’t get why some people don’t get why some other people dislike affiliate links in reviews. If a review is posted by someone who earns money of sales from that review, is it so hard to understand why some people might suspect that the review is biased?

+1

No I understand and encourage suspicion - In the right amount its healthy !

Never ever trust anyone !

Especially reviews …

Which is why we need more of them , for a wider perspective , different opinions ( based on testing ) .

A single review - some thing might be missed , go untested - miss communicated - or simply be forgotten . And lets not forget those horrible evil variables ( there so nasty ) .

My thumbs will always be up for more reviews , more sponsors of reviews and especially new reviewers .
And again , not condoning rule breaking …

But I am condoning common sense

As well as moving forward , not backwards

Slap the guilty , don’t throw out the baby with the bath water

I only object to affiliate links if the sole purpose of a reviewer is to sell stuff under the guise of a real review. There are large youtube channels that get tens of thousands to millions of views, supposedly showing a youtuber doing cool stuff. It might be entertaining, but the main purpose is to advertise stuff or shill for stuff or sell stuff. Some get very rich from doing this.

I have no problem with Internet personalities getting rich, but I’m not going to make them any richer by using any links they provide. I’ll usually hit “unsubscribe”.

However, for a typical BLF’er, just how much money would he make if he gets paid for affiliate links? $20? $50? I have no idea, but probably not much more. In other words, he’s not earning a living doing flashlight reviews, and I doubt it even reasonably compensates him for his efforts.

As long as he discloses he makes money from affiliate links, I’m okay with that. As long as the review is original and has some useful information, I’ll happily use the link.

Is it possible that a reviewer that gets paid for affiliate links is a little biased? Perhaps. But if it’s a small amount of money, the bias is nowhere near the kind of bias that creates popular youtube shills to advertise stuff for a lot of money.

On a tangent, what is the difference between affiliate links in a review, and people that organize group buys? I’ve bought several things in group buys, and I assume the organizer is making a bit of money for doing it. It’s a lot of work, so why shouldn’t he get a little something from the manufacturer? Otherwise, we might have a lot less group buys.

I don’t have a problem with people making money from me, as long as I know it’s happening. Disclosure is everything.
That way, it’s my choice whether to trust that review or not, and it’s my choice whether to click on that affiliate link or not.
I like the way that the did it in the BLF-348 group buys, providing both affiliate and non-affiliate links, so that we could choose whether to click on the affiliate link (as a “thank you” for running the group buy) or not. I’d be fine with that approach in reviews, too.

I’d wager that no one who has successfully managed a group buy would propose it is a way to make a living or even be fairly compensated for their time. It simply is too much work to be worth it, and that is a crucial difference. lets not kid our selves some entity is making money on affiliate links. It might very well be the manufactures or distributors who make the lions share but affiliate links are not altruistic tools.

This is not a problem, but lets be clear about it and not confuse it with charity.

I propose that reviews where compensation is involved fit in the commercial category, affiliate links included. I’m not saying we can’t benefit from them but lets call a Shovel A Shovel.

If someone buys a light and wants to tell us about it good or bad, to me that is exactly in line with why BLF was created and is a review that deserves to be not mixed in with the other types.

I also don’t see why anyone should be upset by this. For the folks who buy their own lights it has no affect, for the folks that respond to vendors/suppliers providing the lights they still get to do their reviews exactly as they do now or as they wish, simply under the Commercial heading.

Heck it may help them negotiate more favorable terms (lets face it all reviewers are not treated the same way by manufactures and distributors) They have preferences and probably for well thought out reasons.

Well, I do get a little bit passionate at times. But I’m through now. No more arguments from me. I don’t want to be the reason this thread gets shut down. :wink:

?

What does it matter ? Who is getting hurt or robbed ? Do you care who makes $ when you go to Burger King and get a burger ? Do you care about the people making minimum wage ? Or who profits ? Again I just don’t understand this Affiliate links ( alleged problem ) … Because if you have a problem with affiliate links you must have a problem with everyone that makes money . Because everyone is used . Everyone . That is what our system is based on , using people ! Employers use people , advertisers , stores , governments - the list is endless . To single out affiliate links as immoral or something wrong ?

Is that a phobia ?

I am seeing a theme here of perceived wrong , so I would like to see a list of all the harm affiliate links do … ( Not talking about people doing the wrong thing - breaking rules ) And I don’t care about opinion . I want the evidence of the harm they have done ! Somebody lost a leg , some one got cancer , some one was robbed of their life savings . ( I mean harm ) … Do you want a list of the benefits ? It’s not a long list , but it’s all good . Cars are a fantastic subject , the pro’s and cons . So here it is , some evil parasite has conned you into clicking on an affiliate link , to a product that you knew you were going to look at … But you look at the address bar and realize its an affiliate link and if you buy now the parasite might earn 5c to maybe $1 from you buying because you followed an affiliate link … List the harm ! ( Make me a be-leaver )

What do you not understand about “biased reviews” and “undisclosed sponsorship” ?

This is completely different from someone at a fast food place making money, you can’t even compare the two.

No I understand !

BIAS is as old as we are ! ( Humans ) , which is why we need more reviews . I really don’t care if a review is Biased as long as its not an outright lie ! Back in the old days before the internet the only reviews you got were from magazines , and they were biased to the max , some just outright fabrication . Because peoples lively hoods were on the line … You either you wrote good reviews - good for the magazine - good for the sponsor - good for you ! Or you found another job ! Those were perilous times for consumers . Because so many product reviews were just advertising in disguise . So in that regard nothing has changed , the practice probably still goes on . Thankfully now , we have more sponsors for reviews , more people doing reviews , and more information to dissect . ( This is good ) Invariably there can be inherent problems with reviews . What happens when a reviewer is sent a tested and proven product ? The review is going to be good ! And then everyone else who buys the product gets pot luck ? This has happened and will most likely continue to happen . ( can you blame the reviewer for that ? ) Which is why more reviews are good , fewer reviews are bad . Getting information from one source = Bad ! very bad ! So when a sponsor picks 10 or 20 people to do reviews on a product - This is amazingly good . Its good for the product related community ( flashlight in this case ) , it’s good for the people doing the reviews . It’s good for the sites ( forums / webs ) where the reviews are posted . It’s good for the sponsor . ( And yes this is important ) . There is very much a flow on effect , look after the sponsor , the sponsor looks after the community , information is shared and there is an opportunity for everyone to move forward and grow .

There will always be people who miss use the privilege . People who lie and cheat and spoil it for everyone . But affiliate links are not responsible for this , people are . And as I have said previously knock them on the head .

Undisclosed sponsorship ( frankly it does not bother me ) I really don’t care … Just like I don’t care who is gay or not , or what color your shorts are , or how much money you earn or how much you spend on booze or how much you car cost . I just don’t care . There are far more important things in the world to care about than if some one was sent something to review or they purchased it . ( Again as long as the review is no an outright fabrication ) I think that is up to the individual to disclose , if they want to . ( Is that like a basic human right ? ) There is another flashlight forum that conforms to your wishes , candlepower ! Nice and strict , well regimented and lots of banning and warning .

I went and watched some TV , had dinner …

And thought about BIAS …

And it occurred to me just how easily we become biased and whether that is good or bad … And I realized it all depends on how we form that bias . Is the bias rooted in fact or BS . Let me explain .

A person goes and test drives two cars , one car he likes and the other car he dos not like . The buyer has just become biased ! But here is the kicker , because he test drives both vehicles his bias is VALID . His bias is born from testing the products and finding what he ( she ) likes and does not like .

Joe six pack is thinking of buying a car , rather than going to the trouble of test driving what he likes , he talks to his mates and gets their opinion . Unfortunately the opinion he gets is not from first hand experience , but rather 3rd hand or worse . Joe weighs up the opinion forming a bias toward a certain car ( or against ) . This is a BS bias . Bias simply means we prefer something more than something else . We all have product bias . And the more you like something , the more biased you are . What is important ! ( very important ) Is what that bias is based on - BS or facts !

Bias is usually used in the negative - and another word we can use is preference or like ( more positive ) We all form bias for or against ( positive - negative ) something . ( What is the driving force behind the bias ? )

You still don’t get it.
Bias because one person like something more than another is just a personal opinion, which is why people watch reviews to inform themselves.
Bias because the person will get paid more for giving a certain product a positive review is not a personal opinion, and it misinforms the people that watch the review.
I don’t know why I’m even trying to argue with someone who doesn’t care about undisclosed sponsorship… :person_facepalming:

Wow! Interesting read. I have never given much thought to the whole affiliate link thing. Don’t really even understand how it works because I don’t do it. Now that I’ve been reading this, it occurs to me that if someone does a good enough job reviewing a light that it makes the product sell like hot-cakes, then they get some kick backs from that review (whether disclosed or not) it’s an aside that essentially makes it somewhat worth their time to have done such a good job on the review. But what I’m seeing here, what concerns some, is whether the review was taken on purely on that basis? I see that, still irrelevant in the end as far as I’m concerned. I still won’t use affiliate links and even if I posted a link (not being aware it was affiliate) I wouldn’t cash in the perks, as it were. In the same way I don’t use discount coupons at MTNElectronics or Banggood or GearBest, I just don’t use em. Simon offers BLF a discount, but Simon is a small shop (Convoy) so I don’t use his coupon, his products are well made and I like em, they’re cheap enough already, so I want him to make a bit more money and develop more models. That’s just me though.

When I get asked to do a review, I make sure they know I’m gonna call it like I see it. I’m gonna open up the light and inspect it inside and out. I’m gonna report where I see they’d done good and where I see they cut corners. If they know their product has some shortcomings, they better dang well know I’m gonna call em out on it and show clear close-up pictures. A really well made light will shine, in my report, same as a poorly made one will stink when I’m done.

As far as me getting a “free light” out of the deal, well, yeah, but one that’s been thoroughly dissected and sometimes marked up getting it apart if they glued it. 7-15 hours of work on it, so if it’s not a $400 light to begin with I’m losing money just working up the review. But then, I’m a flashaholic and a photographer and I have physical issues so I use the hobby aspect as a relief valve… that’s what I do it for and if I can show folks what is a great light vs a good light vs a nightmare then that makes me happy that I helped someone buy the right one or avoid the wrong one.

I don’t have a great many review lights in my collection, the vast majority I bought myself. And even those get dissected and reported on in the same way as a review light. Like the Nitecore TM03, I bought it, full price, and took it apart more than once, taking pics and modifying and changing he XHP-70 to an MT-G2 because I prefer the tint.

At any rate, I don’t make any money on any light that comes in here, but I know people that have as many lights as I do that only bought one or two. That’s they’re thing, this is mine.

Also, I almost never know if a company has other lights out for review or how many, so it’s usually a big surprise to me to see the same light I just posted on with multiple threads by other people. I know I don’t have the tech saavy to make all the charts and stuff, but I show the light for how I see it, inside and out, and if it gets destroyed in the process (a couple have) then whatever. Sometimes I end up using these review lights to do giveaway’s, didn’t cost me anything to get it, only cost’s me shipping to give it away. And so it goes…

Remember not long back when there was argument or debate about the Utorch UT02 being a clone of the Manker U21? Someone suggested that GearBest send me both lights so people could see what’s what. I did a quick review comparison on them, showed them inside and out, output levels and driver current pulls and all that. Then I sent the Manker U21 overseas to a noob that wanted that light but couldn’t afford it. So I spent $50 sending out an International package on a light I got for free. As if the review itself didn’t pay for the UT02, I took out of pocket money to send that Manker to a fellow member. I sure didn’t have to do that. Just felt like it for a Pay-it-Forward sense of doing the right thing.

Dang near put the UT02 up for a giveaway on my post count just yesterday, but I sure do Like That Light! :stuck_out_tongue: (so far, it’s staying here. Will be looking at others though as my post count demands it.)

Im sorry , I think you dont get it !

Who gets paid for reviews ? I have never been PAID for a review !

I don’t think after 25 years I know anyone that has been paid for a review !

The only person I know who was PAID for doing reviews was a magazine writer , and it was the magazine that paid him for the review … I am also aware of some websites / blogs that apparently pay people for reviews . I am not aware of any SPONSORS that pay for reviews . And I am pretty sure that BLF does not pay for reviews . Again ……………………………

Again ………… I invite you to do more than SPAM ! , I invite you to make me a believer … Please , some evidence of your innuendo ! If your not prepared to offer some evidence of your allegations perhaps its time to head on over to candlepower . And see how they treat spam !