Q8 modding

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The Miller
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hank wrote:
Makes sense. The bumping worries me just a bit, as I’d been thinking the Q8 will make one heck of a bike light.

bumps on the tail end will disconnect cells easier then on the side.
still, or a bike lght I would go with something with spring on both ends of the cell
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The Miller wrote:
hank wrote:
Makes sense. The bumping worries me just a bit, as I’d been thinking the Q8 will make one heck of a bike light.

bumps on the tail end will disconnect cells easier then on the side.
still, or a bike lght I would go with something with spring on both ends of the cell

Someone just needs to check it out.

A modding idea for getting springs on both ends, quite a solder job: on the tail side of the battery tube swap in shorter springs, on the driver side remove the brass ring, solder 3 or 4 short springs, i.e. the BeCu intl-outdoor springs, on the +pad and solder the brass ring on top op them.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Being realistic I can’t get my Q8 to turn off no matter how violently I shake it, only by dropping it onto my knee from 10in/25cm with the tailcap down can I get a consistent disconnect. I mount it to my bike in a way where all the force moves across the flashlight sideways and won’t cause a disconnect. I mainly ride trails, but the closest trail is pretty tore up and covered in sticks/rocks from the heavy rain over the summer and it’s a non-issue. If you’re doing riding where the Q8 losing contact is an issue then the mount is surely more likely to be compromised than the batteries. I still think that snugging up the battery tube is the easiest way to make the batteries more snug though obviously not as perfect as springs on both sides.

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djozz wrote:

A modding idea for getting springs on both ends, quite a solder job: on the tail side of the battery tube swap in shorter springs, on the driver side remove the brass ring, solder 3 or 4 short springs, i.e. the BeCu intl-outdoor springs, on the +pad and solder the brass ring on top op them.


Are you sure? Long springs or springs from both ends are necessary when you will use any from 65mm cells or 70mm cells or 72mm cells.
I think protected cells are not common with Q8, so actual length difference is just 1-2mm. Short springs from tail+thick positive ring, nothing more needed. Soldering ring over springs is not simple, also positive ring with four imr cells is not something that I want to give move abilities (yes springs are rigid but hwo knows where this spring carried ring will slide after hard tuve screwing?)

Need a vlogger for machine accessories reviews

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kiriba-ru wrote:
djozz wrote:

A modding idea for getting springs on both ends, quite a solder job: on the tail side of the battery tube swap in shorter springs, on the driver side remove the brass ring, solder 3 or 4 short springs, i.e. the BeCu intl-outdoor springs, on the +pad and solder the brass ring on top op them.


Are you sure? Long springs or springs from both ends are necessary when you will use any from 65mm cells or 70mm cells or 72mm cells.
I think protected cells are not common with Q8, so actual length difference is just 1-2mm. Short springs from tail+thick positive ring, nothing more needed. Soldering ring over springs is not simple, also positive ring with four imr cells is not something that I want to give move abilities (yes springs are rigid but hwo knows where this spring carried ring will slide after hard tuve screwing?)

The brass ring will be far from the side and attached to 3 or 4 springs it must be rigid enough. It does required good solder joints, perhaps drill shallow holes in the ring where the spring-tops fall in for extra security.

It is just an idea though…

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Jtm94 wrote:
It would take a heck of a bump to disconnect all 4 batteries. With spring bypasses the wire makes the springs a tad bit stiffer so I don’t know if I can even get my Q8 to disconnect if I tried. Sanding down the battery tube also shaved off a fraction of a mm to make things more snug as well. Thinking of taking the tube down just a bit more to line up the flat spots, but I will wait for my screws to come in so I know the driver is sitting flat.

If a bump disconnects one cell, it will probably shift all 4. It’s simply a matter of impact “G”, mass of cell, stiffness of spring, pre-load on spring. You can expect all 4 to move the same.

It certainly happens on my SRKs with what I would call a small slap on the tail.

In my case I want it to sail through any sort of (repeated) impact that might happen if it falls from my hand, maybe tumbling down a hillside afterwards. An extreme use-case I know.

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Flashy Mike wrote:
Proposal to avoid power off on bumps

An additional 100 uF ceramic cap over C2 appears to be sufficient in my light. No power hickup on hardest bumps, even scratched the tailcap during tests.

!{width:50%}http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/media/blf-q8-anti-bump-mod.23464/full!

Excellent news. I was hoping it would be that simple. Thanks very much.

Edit:

Has anyone sketched the schematic diagram yet ? Sorry, but trying to reverse-engineer it by peering at PCB layouts that may or may not be the final version, and parts lists that are well out of date, is hard work, and massive duplication of effort for anyone trying to analyse this.

I’d like to come up with a C2 value with a bit of basic analysis that I am quite sure of.

Edit: and I don’t want to mess up any of the fine tuning that was done to eliminate inductive spikes from FET switching getting to the CPU, I think there was some interaction with a series resistor added to the MCU supply, but can’t remember the details.

Edit: Flashy Mike, were your cells fully charged ? I’d like to know if your fix is still solid at minimum battery voltage, which I think is the worst case.

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I think coil springs under the ring would be a very bad idea, they are bound to become distorted to the side when tightening.

I don’t think springs at that end would be a good idea at all, but if it were to be done, flat springs would be necessary. Think leaf spring on a car, 4 small ones.

Beam me up!

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Tom E wrote:

Flashy Mike wrote:
giorgoskok wrote:
What’s wrong with stock springs ?
As far as I know nothing but high resistance. Up to now.

OK, here’s the deal – where I’m at on this spring issue. I fully expected production Q8’s to measure in my lightbox at no less than 5,300, averaging about 5,500 based on the round 3 prototypes. I asked for BG to post the 5000+ lumens claim on their listing page to play it safe, low ball number. As it turned out, they range from 4,700 to 5,400 or thereabouts. So what happened? Springs were changed – thought they’d be improved, plus glue/loctite/sand remnants where they shouldn’t be, poor screws, poor driver mount because screws were changed from M2.5 to M3, etc.


So out of all this, what the real cause? Well, I think it’s a sort of combo. Because of working on so many bypass’s over the years, you can telll the difference in quality of springs – some chip off the coating rather easily, some not so easy – there’s a great deal of differences. Many times in the past I replaced springs simply so I can get solder to stick to them when applying bypasses, or keep the coating from peeling off. The IOS/MtnE springs have always been good ones, and CNQ or KD also not so bad, even FastTech have been ok. Generally the springs bought separately are superior then what I’d see in many budget lights.


But without testing the stock springs for resistance, I can’ be certain but getting a solid 1,000 to 1,200 lumens boost from 5,300 is about 20%, so that’s a pretty significant bump for a bypass – I’m thinking these springs are fairly high resistance, and the inner springs did next to nothing – I know they peel the very thin coating easily. I really thought double spring would be a lot closer to results you get with bypasses, as I thought we seen before with other dual spring, FET based lights.


 

Thanks for your answer Tom Beer

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Zulumoose wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:

It is a big issue for me, have taken a tumble using SRK clone, bad enough but to have no light (and torch fallen from hand) in pitch black, I had a worrying moment. Fortunately backup torch in pocket, so found it.

Lanyard used ever since.

Now that’s the perfect motivation/argument right there to have a lanyard/glow ring/keyring light. All it takes is one trip or slip and you are effectively blind and incapable of finding your light again, assuming it is still working. I have been in pitch darkness outside once where I was incapable of finding my car, just 20m away. A single match would have been invaluable to me.


I also lost a light and couldn’t find it. I could do the trip in the dark, I did it quite a few times before buying the light. But the thing was expensive! I called a friend who lived nearby to come with a flashlight, which let us find it.
Since then I’m a big fan of GITD.
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Tom Tom wrote:
Flashy Mike wrote:
*Proposal to avoid power off on bumps* An additional 100 uF ceramic cap over C2 appears to be sufficient in my light. No power hickup on hardest bumps, even scratched the tailcap during tests. !{width:50%}http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/media/blf-q8-anti-bump-mod.23464/full!  
Excellent news. I was hoping it would be that simple. Thanks very much. Edit: Has anyone sketched the schematic diagram yet ? Sorry, but trying to reverse-engineer it by peering at PCB layouts that may or may not be the final version, and parts lists that are well out of date, is hard work, and massive duplication of effort for anyone trying to analyse this. I'd like to come up with a C2 value with a bit of basic analysis that I am quite sure of. Edit: and I don't want to mess up any of the fine tuning that was done to eliminate inductive spikes from FET switching getting to the CPU, I think there was some interaction with a series resistor added to the MCU supply, but can't remember the details. Edit: Flashy Mike, were your cells fully charged ? I'd like to know if your fix is still solid at minimum battery voltage, which I think is the worst case.

DEL is the ultimate source - I thought he has schematics in his driver thread.

I'm emailing DEL and Miller now - dunno what happened but can't find the info, or the original OSHPark BLF Q8 listing.

It's all the same though - basic FET+1 design by DEL. Guess I'm so used to them, no schematic needed. Everyone copied this design. DEL added parts to improve fix issues with the ATtiny 25/45/85. He posted such great detail in the past, it's common knowledge by many of us.

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Forgot PD68 did the original BLF Q8 board layout, but under the guidance of DEL. Later on, DEL started doing and posting his own OSHPark driver designs, but using the same circuit design.

 

Original OSHPark BLD Q8: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/uK4XziVN

This is what ThorFire was given. Sorry, but the OSHPark listing has no details.

This is all of DEL's OSHPark listings: https://oshpark.com/profiles/DEL/page/1

 

This one of DEL's is pretty much closely matching what we have on the BLF Q8: https://oshpark.com/profiles/DEL/page/1

Differences are a different FET, bank of 7135's instead of 1, added a C3, and we don't populate R1 and R2. Matching ours: R3, R4, R5, C1, C2, D1. I think DEL's driver thread has some great reference info as well: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/52397. Check out post #3.

 

 

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Agro wrote:
Zulumoose wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:

It is a big issue for me, have taken a tumble using SRK clone, bad enough but to have no light (and torch fallen from hand) in pitch black, I had a worrying moment. Fortunately backup torch in pocket, so found it.

Lanyard used ever since.

Now that’s the perfect motivation/argument right there to have a lanyard/glow ring/keyring light. All it takes is one trip or slip and you are effectively blind and incapable of finding your light again, assuming it is still working. I have been in pitch darkness outside once where I was incapable of finding my car, just 20m away. A single match would have been invaluable to me.


I also lost a light and couldn’t find it. I could do the trip in the dark, I did it quite a few times before buying the light. But the thing was expensive! I called a friend who lived nearby to come with a flashlight, which let us find it.
Since then I’m a big fan of GITD.

If you have GITD stuff on it best would be an UV flashlight to find it

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If it was on a moment ago and I know it’s within several meters (like it was back then), there’s no special equipment needed. A glow o-ring like on my $7.13 Convoy would saved me from calling the friend in the middle of the night.

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Lexel wrote:
Agro wrote:
Zulumoose wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:

It is a big issue for me, have taken a tumble using SRK clone, bad enough but to have no light (and torch fallen from hand) in pitch black, I had a worrying moment. Fortunately backup torch in pocket, so found it.

Lanyard used ever since.

Now that’s the perfect motivation/argument right there to have a lanyard/glow ring/keyring light. All it takes is one trip or slip and you are effectively blind and incapable of finding your light again, assuming it is still working. I have been in pitch darkness outside once where I was incapable of finding my car, just 20m away. A single match would have been invaluable to me.


I also lost a light and couldn’t find it. I could do the trip in the dark, I did it quite a few times before buying the light. But the thing was expensive! I called a friend who lived nearby to come with a flashlight, which let us find it.
Since then I’m a big fan of GITD.

If you have GITD stuff on it best would be an UV flashlight to find it

Is that a backup torch in your pocket or are you just glad to see me ?

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Don’t know if this is useful Tom. Done from memory of prototype#3, so may not match 100% what is in the production models. It also shows the 2-resistor version of the switchboard. If anyone sees something amiss I can correct it. Also need to add the FET part number.

EDIT: FET part number added and R6 corrected to 4.99 ohm

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2 is 1 and 1 is none. Always carry a spare. Even a small twisty can alleviate that lost item issue.

Dale

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That looks darn good. I think our usual D1 is labeled D3 in the drawing? And the labeled D1 is the main LEDs. PD68 had the D1 labeling on the Schottky, though not sure bout the ThorFire Q8 boards.

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Springs bypassed on one of my Q8’s, probably not going to do it on the other one, it’s a hell of alot brighter even to the eye, and you feel the heat, but that amount of light is not very usefull to me, lol.

Ordered 3rd one anyway, going to mod 2 of them and keep one close to original, that will be the most usefull one to me too Wink

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DEL wrote:
Don’t know if this is useful Tom. Done from memory of prototype#3, so may not match 100% what is in the production models. It also shows the 2-resistor version of the switchboard. If anyone sees something amiss I can correct it. Also need to add the FET part number.

!{width:80%}https://i.imgur.com/Ol8wBbU.png!

Hi DEL, we are considering adding a big bulk decoupler across C2 to hold up MCU through momentary power outages due to batteries rattling about under impacts, do you foresee any problems with no other alteration ?

Edit: Maybe we are in danger of transiently over-currenting the Schottky, with only 4R7 in series. Do you think it can handle it ?

Given R1 R2 not populated, maybe I could attach e.g. 7135×8 driver (any old thing with MCU removed) to pin 7, and make my own 2-bank 7135 mod, with jiggery pokery in Narsil ? Maybe already coded by someone. Having the resistor pads already there would make this so easy.

PS: thanks very much for the schematic.

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+1 - I also was gonna ask DEL about that big capacitor addition.

Having the 7135 bank on pin #7 is not the standard triple setup, like the TA boards. Pretty sure it's all do-able, but requires some minor code change - I walked someone thru this type of mod to the code before in the NarsilM thread.

Of course would be better with a driver board change, but saves time/money, etc.

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Sladgestone is not out of the woods Sad

can you share a pic or two?

Tom Tom wrote:
Sledgestone wrote:
It’s no use. The screw that holds the reflector is totally shredded.. It’s completely round inside. What should I do now?

Things I might try:

Penetrating oil and whack a small cold chisel into the head to try to make a slot for purchase.

Penetrating oil and try to turn the screw by tapping the head around using a punch or cold chisel.

Drill or grind the head off, once it’s apart try to unscrew the stub with pliers, mole grip etc.

Drill the screw out all the way down, if you are really good, and lucky, you just might keep the threads in the reflector, otherwise be prepared to tap it the next size larger, or helicoil it.

Ask a favour of a colleague to EDM (spark erode) it out (you probably need to work in aerospace for this option).

Tig or stick weld something onto the head that you can crank on.

Edit: if there was any sort of head left un-mullered, I’d first try an impact driver, with a diamond coated bit.

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The Miller wrote:
Sladgestone is not out of the woods Sad

can you share a pic or two?

Tom Tom wrote:
Sledgestone wrote:
It’s no use. The screw that holds the reflector is totally shredded.. It’s completely round inside. What should I do now?

Things I might try:

Penetrating oil and whack a small cold chisel into the head to try to make a slot for purchase.

Penetrating oil and try to turn the screw by tapping the head around using a punch or cold chisel.

Drill or grind the head off, once it’s apart try to unscrew the stub with pliers, mole grip etc.

Drill the screw out all the way down, if you are really good, and lucky, you just might keep the threads in the reflector, otherwise be prepared to tap it the next size larger, or helicoil it.

Ask a favour of a colleague to EDM (spark erode) it out (you probably need to work in aerospace for this option).

Tig or stick weld something onto the head that you can crank on.

Edit: if there was any sort of head left un-mullered, I’d first try an impact driver, with a diamond coated bit.

Arrange for new head to be sent with un-mullered fastenings. No-one should have to deal with this unnecessary nausea.

Edit: I’ll post a picture of an olde fashioned mechanical impact driver and a copper/leather Thor hammer to whack it with if you like. Indispensable working on old Jap motorbikes, but a bit brutal on a mere torch head.

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With that much of the middle of the screw stripped out, there’s not a lot of the head left… may be able to slot it and remove it. Other than that, drilling it out is probably the way to go. Probably cut the leads and remove the entire assembly, drill it out with a drill press. I’ve had good luck with a larger bolt glued to a rod with JB Weld, don’t know if it’d hold something that small though, might be worth a try. Glue a screwdriver bit into the head of the screw, wait for it to set up, then give a good steady pressure while pressing down on it. Just might work…

Dale

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Mapp gas in a blowtorch … Get it white hot… Should come out easily (everything else melted away)

But seriously, a bit of heat on the screw (big hot soldering iron etc. ) might just help. Or take a disposable screwdriver, get it red hot, press it hard into the head until it is no longer glowing, then try your best.

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After reading the JB weld stories (Dale did it Wink ) I ordered some from Amazon one time
I grabbed an old hand held plunging blender that did not work anymore because the metal rod driving the blade was stripped from the plastic part that engaged with the part that was rotated by the motor.
I mixed a little JB weld, dabbed some on the rod, placed the plunging knife part back and removed to see if it made contact, yes it did.
I had some mixed stuff left and used it on the inside of the plunging knife part so it would not come apart, you know, before use that check to see if all is clean.
After 24 hours of setting, the darned thing worked
And it kept working, doing the thing my wife broke it with (changing half a kilo of dades and half a kilo of raisins into a mushy heavy drab she uses in her cooking. Every time she makes it the blender has so much trouble getting though, lot of strange noises from the thing, low revs, it really is killing for these kitchen tools, the hand held blender was a good one, the one before it died soon after starting to make it, so we bought a more heavy duty, now using a very good blender, just to say the JB weld really did good!)
I tossed it out, because of course no way to clean inside the plunger part, but it proved the strength of JB weld and was a successful experiment.
I would try Dales idea based on this

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The Miller wrote:
After reading the JB weld stories (Dale did it Wink ) … I would try Dales idea based on this

Definitely the first thing to try. We don’t have JB Weld in the UK AFAIK, the strongest thing I know is slow-cure Araldite epoxy (not the 5 minute stuff, the 24 hour to final cure variant)

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I missed this but why is the reflector being removed?
Also please dont go anywhere near the reflector with penetrating oil lest some get on the reflector surface itself.

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

Budget light hobby proudly sponsored by my Mastercard and unknowingly paid for by a hard working wife. 

djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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I have a situation very close to SledgeStone's, but not completely stripped, but simply don't have the strength to budge it with a big P2 screwdriver that seems to grab well. Between pressing down hard and turning, I can't budge it. I'll try again tonight.

6 of 9 lights have combo head screws, 3 have phillips only - definite different screw in finish and head size. Of course the one stuck is phillips only... I did have another phillips only that was partially stripped, but eventually got out with just a screwdriver.

I am replacing them all with M4x8mm phillips panheads from BoltDepot - sure look like better quality and fit the screwdrivers better.

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Tom Tom wrote:

Definitely the first thing to try. We don’t have JB Weld in the UK AFAIK, the strongest thing I know is slow-cure Araldite epoxy (not the 5 minute stuff, the 24 hour to final cure variant)

This stuff is really good too: https://www.amazon.co.uk/AFT-Nural-21-Tubes-22Cc/dp/B00J1I0OGM

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