Test many high drain batteries internal resistance

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Trisky
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Test many high drain batteries internal resistance

The internal resistance of the battery is an important parameter to measure the discharge performance of the battery.

Generally speaking, the lower the internal resistance of the battery is, the higher the discharge current of the battery is.

The resistance of the battery need professional instrument test, and the multimeter can only directly test the resistance of the uncharged metal

Here are some of the internal resistance tests for  high drian batteries

Sony VTC5 (12.75mΩ)

sony vtc5

 

Sony VTC4 (11.94mΩ)

 

 

Sony VTC5A (9.87mΩ)

 

 

Sony VTC6 (12.83mΩ)

 

Trisky

Edited by: Trisky on 10/12/2017 - 06:36
Trisky
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LG HD4 (11.38mΩ)

 

Samsung 25R (12.74mΩ)

 

 

Samsung 20RM (12.72mΩ)

 

LG HG2 (13.89mΩ)

 

Samsung 30Q (12.78mΩ)

 

Trisky

electricjelly
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Thats a neet device there. I wonder if the internal resistance increases as the cell ages/gets used alot.

Trisky
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LG HE2 (12.77mΩ)

 

Sanyo UR18650NSX (13.01mΩ)

 

 

LG HB6 (11.18mΩ)

 

Samsung 35E (21.9mΩ)

LG HE4 (13.77mΩ)

 

LG HB2 (11.22mΩ)

Sanyo UR18650RX (11.66mΩ)

Samsung 48G (14.09mΩ)

Trisky

HKJ
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electricjelly wrote:
Thats a neet device there.

Very neat, I did post a review of it: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/56582

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): http://lygte-info.dk/

dchomak
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I think they are taking advantage of the principle behind these equations.
BTW, sorry that my symbol for R-internal looks a lot like R-1

The circuit represents a Voltage source (cell) with it’s internal resistance hooked up to 2 different resistors, with 2 different current draws.
The value of each resistor is unknown, nor does it matter

What is measured is the voltage drop across R-1 and R-2, the load resistors, and the current thru them.
The equations show that the R-internal is calculated from the change in voltage drop divided by the change in current.

The value calculated does not depend on the values of the 2 load resistors
Instead of using 2 load resistors, they are using variable voltage and current, AC, and doing the math.

The reason why this is so good, I believe, is because any contact resistance would be part of the load resistance, and wouldn’t matter, because the resistance of the load resistor is not used in the calculation.
.
.

HKJ
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dchomak wrote:
I think they are taking advantage of the principle behind these equations.

No, as you can see in my review it uses AC and 4 terminal connection.
The AC also means the value will be lower than chargers measures, because they use DC.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): http://lygte-info.dk/

dchomak
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HKJ wrote:
dchomak wrote:
I think they are taking advantage of the principle behind these equations.

No, as you can see in my review it uses AC and 4 terminal connection.
The AC also means the value will be lower than chargers measures, because they use DC.

The circuit I drew up would use 2 meters at the same time. One measuring current and one measuring voltage, for a total of 4 separate terminal connections.
I still think that is the principle behind what they are doing.

HKJ
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dchomak wrote:
The circuit I drew up would use 2 meters at the same time. One measuring current and one measuring voltage, for a total of 4 separate terminal connections. I still think that is the principle behind what they are doing.

They are measuring current and voltage at the same time, but with AC you do not change current or even draw current (I checked this with an oscilloscope)

This is the standard way to measure internal resistance.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): http://lygte-info.dk/

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Samsung 30T (6.77mΩ)

 

Sanyo 20700B (13.66mΩ)

 

LG HB4(10.97mΩ)

 

LG HG6 (9.26mΩ)

 

Sanyo 20650A (9.58mΩ)

 

Sanyo 20700A (8.96mΩ)

 Samsung 13BM (11.99mΩ)

 

LG HA4  (10.67mΩ)
 
LG HD2C (11.95mΩ)
 
 
LG MJ1 (30.4mΩ)
 
 
Samsung 15M (12.5mΩ)
 
 
Sanyo 18650GA (24.5mΩ)
 
 
Sanyo 18650SAX (11.93mΩ)
 
 
Sanyo 18650WX (12.31mΩ)
Sony 18650 VC7  (24.4mΩ)
 
 
Sony 18650 VTC4A  (10.5mΩ)
 
 
And some rewarp brand batteries
 
 
Awt 18650 3000mah  (12.88mΩ)
 
 
Ijoy 20700  new version  (12.47mΩ)
 
 
Ijoy 26650 4200mah  (10.35mΩ)
 
 
 
vapcell 18650 2000mah (7.16mΩ)
 
 
 
BUSBARS 18650 1750mah  (10.24mΩ)
 
 
 
Mnke 26650  (13.93mΩ)
 
 
 
And some LiFeCoPO4 3.2V batteries
 
A123 26650M1A  (6.24mΩ)
 
 
A123 26650M1B  (5.21mΩ)
 
 
 
A123 18650M1A  (15.22mΩ)
 
A123 AHR32113  (2.22mΩ)
 
 
 

Trisky

snakebite
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nice device.
i need to get one.
the dick smith esr works well on batteries but lacks resolution on the very low end where it is most desired.

dchomak
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HKJ wrote:
dchomak wrote:
The circuit I drew up would use 2 meters at the same time. One measuring current and one measuring voltage, for a total of 4 separate terminal connections. I still think that is the principle behind what they are doing.

They are measuring current and voltage at the same time, but with AC you do not change current or even draw current (I checked this with an oscilloscope)

This is the standard way to measure internal resistance.

“They are measuring current and voltage at the same time”

Yes, I think what is being done is that AC is used and they are calculating the delta V and delta I at each sample point of the Sine Wave
No, the peak current will not change from cycle to cycle, but it would all along each cycle.

It could be that they are calculating the instantaneous change in voltage with respect to the instantaneous change in current along that sine wave. Dividing the 2 will give the internal resistance.

Now, who am I to say how they are actually doing it. All I am saying is that they are calculating the internal resistance based on the principles of my circuit and equations.

dchomak
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snakebite wrote:
nice device. i need to get one. the dick smith esr works well on batteries but lacks resolution on the very low end where it is most desired.

Yes, very nice indeed!
I want one too. $58 on AliExpress

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dchomak wrote:
Now, who am I to say how they are actually doing it. All I am saying is that they are calculating the internal resistance based on the principles of my circuit and equations.

As long as you circuit can measure AC only need to divide voltage with current, no need to use the DC formulas.
You can find it all in my article about resistance/impedance: http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal%20impedance%20UK.html

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): http://lygte-info.dk/

d_t_a
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Pardon my ignorance, will the internal resistance measurement be affected if the battery is fully charged or fully drained?

I notice most of the cells above are measured with DC voltage at around 3.5-3.6v

lawallac
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Wow, that Samsung 21700 30T looks like it could deliver the highest current of any cell I’ve seen. I see articles saying it’s a Panny/Tesla 21700 competetor cell. Looking at the reviews, very impressive.

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lawallac wrote:
Wow, that Samsung 21700 30T looks like it could deliver the highest current of any cell I’ve seen. I see articles saying it’s a Panny/Tesla 21700 competetor cell. Looking at the reviews, very impressive.

That 30T cost me a battery holder during test, my holder could not handle 50A

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): http://lygte-info.dk/

HKJ
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d_t_a wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, will the internal resistance measurement be affected if the battery is fully charged or fully drained?

It will increase when the battery is close to empty.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): http://lygte-info.dk/

d_t_a
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HKJ wrote:
d_t_a wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, will the internal resistance measurement be affected if the battery is fully charged or fully drained?

It will increase when the battery is close to empty.

Will the difference be significant for that same battery? (eg. measuring the same battery at 3.0v vs 3.6v vs 4.2v)
or will there be a big variance depending on the type/chemistry/age of the battery?

lawallac
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I saw the sudden cut out in the graph. 50A just wow. That explains it. Thanks for testing it though!

EasyB
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For flashlight use the relevant measurement for battery resistance is the DC IR. As mentioned this meter measures something different which might or might not be useful.

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All these measurements seem very close. Some batteries listed I would have thought to have higher resistance. So these are very accurate numbers? Shows perception does not mean much. Smile

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dchomak wrote:
I think they are taking advantage of the principle behind these equations. BTW, sorry that my symbol for R-internal looks a lot like R-1 The circuit represents a Voltage source (cell) with it's internal resistance hooked up to 2 different resistors, with 2 different current draws. +The value of each resistor is unknown, nor does it matter+ What is measured is the voltage drop across R-1 and R-2, the load resistors, and the current thru them. The equations show that the R-internal is calculated from the change in voltage drop divided by the change in current. +The value calculated does not depend on the values of the 2 load resistors+ Instead of using 2 load resistors, they are using variable voltage and current, AC, and doing the math. The reason why this is so good, I believe, is because any +contact resistance would be part of the load resistance+, and wouldn't matter, because the resistance of the load resistor is not used in the calculation. . . !{width:100%}[url=https://imgur.com/u94gpuD][img]http://i.imgur.com/u94gpuD.jpg?1[/img][/u...

This is a multimeter test method of battery internal resistance, but the battery's internal resistance is very small, the error is relatively large
There is also a great resistance between the conductor and the conductor, and it is easy to change

Trisky

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LightRider wrote:
All these measurements seem very close. Some batteries listed I would have thought to have higher resistance. So these are very accurate numbers? Shows perception does not mean much. :-)

 

HKJ has an comment of this instrument
This YR1030 instrument measures the same cell and test many times ,almostly the same data
Some chager have function of tested the internal resistance , but the error is large, each test data is not the same, each slot data is not the same

Trisky

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lawallac wrote:
Wow, that Samsung 21700 30T looks like it could deliver the highest current of any cell I've seen. I see articles saying it's a Panny/Tesla 21700 competetor cell. Looking at the reviews, very impressive.

 

 

A123 26650 have a lower resistance, please check

Trisky