XHP50.2 J4 4000k output test by Texas_Ace - Really impressive improvement from the last gen

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Texas_Ace
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XHP50.2 J4 4000k output test by Texas_Ace - Really impressive improvement from the last gen

So to go along with my XHP70.2 test Lumintop also provided me with some XHP50.2 to play with.

The results are about what you would expect from 4x XP-G3’s. Although it looks like they are not the highest bin dies where the XHP70.2 gets the highest bin dies. I suppose that makes some sense, the xhp70 should be more popular, the xhp50 is mostly for retrofit installations and the XP-G3 is a very popular LED in itself.

So it makes right at 5000 lumens hot and a bit more from a cold start. Pretty good for some situations. It also should provide more throw then the xhp70 as well.

Only other thing to note about the test is that the test rig got bumped about half way through and the readings dropped slightly after that (didn’t notice until I was graphing it out afterwards). You can see the drop around the 6.5A mark (dog was very excited and I didn’t notice the test rig shifted). The difference was not enough to re-run the test. Just add a few lumens to the numbers after that.

Click the images for full size.

MRsDNF
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Thanks again TA. I’m always referring to these charts when building a light. Thumbs Up

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Texas_Ace
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MRsDNF wrote:
Thanks again TA. I’m always referring to these charts when building a light. Thumbs Up

lol, so am I.

The_Driver
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Nice test!

I think this LED is greatly underappreciated. It has HID levels of output and luminance.

Texas_Ace
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It is a good middle ground between the XHP35 and XHP70 that is for sure.

pommie
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Thanks for putting in the effort.

3550lm at 4.75A will make a nice cheap(ish) mod for the GT Smile

Cheers David

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

JaredM
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pommie wrote:
Thanks for putting in the effort.

3550lm at 4.75A will make a nice cheap(ish) mod for the GT Smile

Cheers David

Actually, this test was done in 6v configuration so 4.75A in 12v would be near peak output at about 5000 lumens!

pommie
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JaredM wrote:

Actually, this test was done in 6v configuration so 4.75A in 12v would be near peak output at about 5000 lumens!

Hmmmm must be time for an afternoon nap for me to miss that Facepalm

Cheers David

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

everydaysurvivalgear
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Thanks for the testing mate! Its good to see the output double when pushed same as the XHP70.2.

Agro
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everydaysurvivalgear wrote:
Thanks for the testing mate! Its good to see the output double when pushed same as the XHP70.2.

Only at high currents.
When you use the most powerful 17mm boost driver out there (Schoki’s driver) it’s 4200 vs. 5400 lm.
Texas_Ace
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pommie wrote:
JaredM wrote:

Actually, this test was done in 6v configuration so 4.75A in 12v would be near peak output at about 5000 lumens!

Hmmmm must be time for an afternoon nap for me to miss that Facepalm

Cheers David

lol, it is easy to miss. I am interested to see what the 50 looks like in the GT myself.

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Where to buy a reliable/genuine XHP70,2?

Flomotion

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Flomotion wrote:
Where to buy a reliable/genuine XHP70,2?

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_114

I think KD also sells some and you can find them on sites like mouser as well.

pommie
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Texas_Ace wrote:
lol, it is easy to miss. I am interested to see what the 50 looks like in the GT myself.

When the XHP50.2 J4-5A 4000K finally arrives, should be any day now, and the resisters arrive, only ordered today, problem one will be it is on a 20mm star so some fancy wiring to be done, hopefully I can do the same as my Courui D01

problem two, it is on a 1.6mm board and the GT’s board is 2mm, maybe use a rubber spacer at the bezel??

Cheers David, . . . . . . who has just had his two solder stations burn out within a week of each other Ughh

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

Texas_Ace
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pommie wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
lol, it is easy to miss. I am interested to see what the 50 looks like in the GT myself.

When the XHP50.2 J4-5A 4000K finally arrives, should be any day now, and the resisters arrive, only ordered today, problem one will be it is on a 20mm star so some fancy wiring to be done, hopefully I can do the same as my Courui D01

problem two, it is on a 1.6mm board and the GT’s board is 2mm, maybe use a rubber spacer at the bezel??

Cheers David, . . . . . . who has just had his two solder stations burn out within a week of each other Ughh

I thought about trying something like that but after my own D01 experience, that is something I prefer not repeat lol. I ended up having to use a mill to shave down the solder joints for the D01 to get the reflector properly positioned.

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Thanks for the test. I am more confident now for my quad xhp50.2 and its output. Pulling 40 amps means my estimate for >18.000 lumens was right.

At how many amps you would say it will burn? 13?

-Air cooled 4x XHP50.2: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/56829
-SkyRay King 4x XPL HI, TN40 clone: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55195
-XHP70.2 Maglite 2D: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54791
-SkyRay King 7x XML2, TIR, 8x 18650: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54886

Texas_Ace
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Kourtinoksylo wrote:
Thanks for the test. I am more confident now for my quad xhp50.2 and its output. Pulling 40 amps means my estimate for >18.000 lumens was right.

At how many amps you would say it will burn? 13?

By 13A you would be loosing lumens but the XHP series is pretty tough, they generally don’t burn until you drive them REALLY hard if you have a good thermal path.

10A is about the most I would try to run them at, personally I think around 8A is a good number before the diminishing returns.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
pommie wrote:
JaredM wrote:

Actually, this test was done in 6v configuration so 4.75A in 12v would be near peak output at about 5000 lumens!

Hmmmm must be time for an afternoon nap for me to miss that Facepalm

Cheers David

lol, it is easy to miss. I am interested to see what the 50 looks like in the GT myself.

For me this is the optimal configuration. I would drive it at around 12V and 4.5A. A shaved XHP50.2 K2 would be similar to the Luminus CFT-90, but with the stock U.I. and much, much cheaper.

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The_Driver wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
pommie wrote:
JaredM wrote:

Actually, this test was done in 6v configuration so 4.75A in 12v would be near peak output at about 5000 lumens!

Hmmmm must be time for an afternoon nap for me to miss that Facepalm

Cheers David

lol, it is easy to miss. I am interested to see what the 50 looks like in the GT myself.

For me this is the optimal configuration. I would drive it at around 12V and 4.5A. A shaved XHP50.2 K2 would be similar to the Luminus CFT-90, but with the stock U.I. and much, much cheaper.

These second generation XHP LEDs are very power-dense, but I don’t think you will get close to an effective luminance of 200cd/mm^2 in a reflector light with the shaved XHP50.2. The actual die luminance will be less than one would think just considering the total output and the die area because there is light coming from the cross and phosphor to the sides of the die, as I showed with the XPG3. Also, in a reflector light, focused at the center, the beam center lux results from an average of the luminance from the die and cross, so the effective luminance will be less, i.e. If you look into the reflector it will be filled with reflections from the bright die but some area will be filled with reflections from the less bright cross.

The_Driver
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EasyB wrote:
The_Driver wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
pommie wrote:
JaredM wrote:

Actually, this test was done in 6v configuration so 4.75A in 12v would be near peak output at about 5000 lumens!

Hmmmm must be time for an afternoon nap for me to miss that Facepalm

Cheers David

lol, it is easy to miss. I am interested to see what the 50 looks like in the GT myself.

For me this is the optimal configuration. I would drive it at around 12V and 4.5A. A shaved XHP50.2 K2 would be similar to the Luminus CFT-90, but with the stock U.I. and much, much cheaper.

These second generation XHP LEDs are very power-dense, but I don’t think you will get close to an effective luminance of 200cd/mm^2 in a reflector light with the shaved XHP50.2. The actual die luminance will be less than one would think just considering the total output and the die area because there is light coming from the cross and phosphor to the sides of the die, as I showed with the XPG3. Also, in a reflector light, focused at the center, the beam center lux results from an average of the luminance from the die and cross, so the effective luminance will be less, i.e. If you look into the reflector it will be filled with reflections from the bright die but some area will be filled with reflections from the less bright cross.

Yes I realize they aren’t perfectly suited. But take a look at Texas_ace’s masurements with the shaved XHP70.2. With these we can determine the throw with the XHP50.2. It should be similar to the XHP-35 HI, but with a 30% larger hotspot (8mm^2 vs 6mm^2) and 50% more lumens.

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The_Driver][quote=EasyB][quote=The_Driver][quote=Texas_Ace][quote=pommie][quote=JaredM wrote:

Yes I realize they aren’t perfectly suited. But take a look at Texas_ace’s masurements with the shaved XHP70.2. With these we can determine the throw with the XHP50.2. It should be similar to the XHP-35 HI, but with a 30% larger hotspot (8mm^2 vs 6mm^2) and 50% more lumens.

This is what I was wondering about. Is it possible the the 50.2 could do 5000 lumen and 800+K Lux? I think that I remember reading somewhere that the 50.2 runs a liitle cooler than the 70.2. If this is true, the 50.2 might be a great option in the GT.

WaylonJennings
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It looks like it might be time to learn how to do what you guys seem to do so easily. Can you guys recommend the gear I will need to get started? I would rather get the right/best stuff the first time.

It sure would be nice to have TA or one of you other guys just down the street!

Texas_Ace
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Lucky for you what you need is not a lot. The basic tools of the trade are :

soldering station with temperature control
hot air reflow station (mine is a combo unit with the soldering iron)
Reasonably good DMM
magnifying goggles / heatgear, this makes it way easier to see what you are doing
Fine tweezers

The rest are the mics parts like wires, switches, springs and the like that you will figure out over time.

The soldering station hakko makes some good stuff, I use a china knock-off with good results until a few days ago when the heating element in the iron died. I have a replacement ordered now. Still I got over 1.5 years out of it for $40, well worth the investment.

WaylonJennings
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Lucky for you what you need is not a lot. The basic tools of the trade are :

soldering station with temperature control
hot air reflow station (mine is a combo unit with the soldering iron)
Reasonably good DMM
magnifying goggles / heatgear, this makes it way easier to see what you are doing
Fine tweezers

The rest are the mics parts like wires, switches, springs and the like that you will figure out over time.

The soldering station hakko makes some good stuff, I use a china knock-off with good results until a few days ago when the heating element in the iron died. I have a replacement ordered now. Still I got over 1.5 years out of it for $40, well worth the investment.

Thanks TA. Looks like I have some shopping to do. Smile

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Nice testing work once again TA! Beer

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WaylonJennings][quote=The_Driver][quote=EasyB][quote=The_Driver][quote=Texas_Ace][quote=pommie wrote:
JaredM wrote:

Yes I realize they aren’t perfectly suited. But take a look at Texas_ace’s masurements with the shaved XHP70.2. With these we can determine the throw with the XHP50.2. It should be similar to the XHP-35 HI, but with a 30% larger hotspot (8mm^2 vs 6mm^2) and 50% more lumens.

This is what I was wondering about. Is it possible the the 50.2 could do 5000 lumen and 800+K Lux? I think that I remember reading somewhere that the 50.2 runs a liitle cooler than the 70.2. If this is true, the 50.2 might be a great option in the GT.

The XHP50.2 will only run cooler in a direct drive setup because it has a slightly higher Vf which results in less current.

In a regulated setup the XHP70.2 will run cooler because it is more efficient (more Lumens and a lower Vf).

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Has anyone tried the sliced 50.2 in the GT yet?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

Texas_Ace
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JasonWW wrote:
Has anyone tried the sliced 50.2 in the GT yet?

Not that I know of, it is hard to find an mcpcb for it.

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Thank you for this test.
I’m a newbie and i’m wondering; why is there such a big difference to the manufacturer data sheet values?

Datasheet says on Page 7:
5,65V @ 1750mA (Tj=85°C)

Your test:
5,67V @ 0,75mA

Where does the difference come from?

Texas_Ace
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There is a range on all the values from Cree, generally they are around 7% but it also varies with other factors as well such as tint, CRI, bin ect. Higher CRI LED’s for example generally have lower Vf.

Each reel will have a different Vf, sometimes the changes are minor, others they are very noticeable.

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I am thinking about using the 3V XHP50.2 in the Q8. And to keep it safe I would use AWG 22 with 10-15cm length.
AWG22 should have 0,00548ohm resistance at 10cm length. For 48Amps, it would be a voltage drop of 0,26V.

What do you think about it? How long would you make the AWG22?
Is it necessary to bridge the battery springs to protect them from overheating and melting?

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