18650's future and the flashlights that use them.

Are 16650 / 17650 cells and flashlights still being produced? These were popular way back in the early 2000’s How fast were flashlight manufacturers to phase them out?

There has been a lot of r&d into 18650s, and I think it would be quite a while before they are phased out by another cell. Look at the 26650. They were a threat to the 18650, but it never really caught on that well. Laptops, power tools, ebikes, cars… A lot depends on the 18650 cell.

Flashlights and ecigs are a very small factor into manufacturing cells… I doubt we are what they are considering when developing them.

Possible that the light and vape communities may keep production going on the good cells once another form factor takes over. But at that point the power/size ratio that causes electric cars and power tools and computers to change will also probably cause the flashlight and vape communities to adapt to the better cells.
At this point, 18650 offers the best output/weight ratio, which is why manufacturers kept putting all their r&d into them. Seems to be the sweet spot.

Well the thing is, this 20700/21700 isn’t that much bigger than a 18650. The 26650 is much larger so devices have to be able to accommodate them. I’m thinking 26650’s really haven’t caught on because of their size. Even Elon Musk seems to think it’s not much bigger than the 18650 and for it’s size has a significantly larger capacity. Hence why he dumped the 18650. That’s why I’m thinking the 20700/21700 might take over the 18650.

You are right. I am guessing 26650 was too large for the benefits for cars. Can’t fit as many in a pack as smaller cells.
Previously laptops and power tools were pushing the drive on cells. I think now, or in the near future, cars will be pushing the drive on cells. It all depends on who/what is willing to pay for the development of new cells. I am looking forward to it personally.
But, as much time and money that was put into 18650s, I don’t thin kwe will see them go away in the next decade. Even then, I think there will be enough demand for quality 18650 cells to keep them in production

I certainly hope so. I mean I’ll adopt the new cell but I don’t feel like having to buy new lights and chargers just yet for them. I mean most of my chargers can charge a unprotected 20700/21700 unofficially. I just bough some expensive lights recently that uses the 18650. I also just bought a Xtar Dragon, and that was a little pricey. I intend to at least have the lights and chargers for 10 years. Even still I’d hate to see them as paper weights after that.

meh……look at AA batteries. Way better tech out there, but consumers are used to them, so they remain.

As mentioned, the flashlight/vap world will have little to no effect on it. LEDs are not even manufactured for flashlights anyway, they just happen to work well for such.

Who knows, the way technology moves forward in leaps and bounds, maybe we will be building mini cold fusion lights in 10 years. :question:

The average consumer will know what an AA is. So manufacturers still produce items with them. The 18650 and other cells like it are not well known by the average consumer. You ask a average consumer what a 18650 is and their response would be “What the hell is that?” Therefore manufacturers do not make common devices for them based on 18650s and other cells. Bare lithium ion cells and the average consumer, not knowing the proper use and precautions, would be a manufacturers worst nightmare.

I’ll bet that AA cells around the 1.5v range will still be around in 50 years. I’ll also bet that 18650 cells will not.

I’m not too worried about them phasing out. By the time 18650 cells are gone, there will be much better lights available that use the better cells, and we’ll all be buying those.

As for existing lights becoming stranded. Yes, that will happen. But it’s going to be awhile, and you’ll still have years left on your existing cells even if you can’t buy any more.

Isn’t the average cell life three years? I thought the chemistry degrades wether used or sitting on the shelf? I noticed allot of laptop batteries past three years lose allot of capacity or are dead.

Of course 18650 cells will be around for many more years.

How else will the many fire brand cell makers be able to fake 20700 and 21700 cells, without 18650 cells to put inside :money_mouth_face: :smiley:

It depends on how they are treated. Laptops treat their 18650 cells really bad. They are left 100% charged most of the time, along with a lot of heat from the laptop itself.

But, yes, you’re right that 18650 cells probably don’t have too many years before they need to be replaced for best performance.

How many lights do you have that are a few years old, that you still use regularly? Maybe a few, but I’m betting most of your favorite lights are only a couple of years old.

Even if they stopped making 18650 cells today, by the time your current cells die of old age, you probably won’t be using those 18650 lights anyway.

If you want to be sure your flashlights have supported batteries for decades to come, then your only option is probably AA or AAA cells.

Many new laptops no longer use 18650s. Is it many, or most? I don’t know the stats. But for sure thin laptops with lipo pouches are very common.

Plus, the laptop market is shrinking every year.

I think 18650s will be around for some years but for sure it will be discontinued eventually. The big problem will be when the major manufacturers pull out. Chinese companies will be happy to fill the gap in the market. The cells will be much lower quality.

18650’s aren’t going anywhere.
You must understand how 20700/21700 came to be.
21700 is the maximum size cell that can be manufactured with current 18650 tooling and process.

Size was chosen for cost based on not having to build new machines for 18650 manufacturing facilities.

This is good news then. Perhaps I will buy another MF-01 in a Nichia flavor in a couple weeks!

Lithium ion batteries can last quite a while under the right conditions. I have an Olight T20 that’s about 10 years old, I just gave away the original AW 16350s I bought with it recently. I don’t have a way to test capacity but they weren’t noticeably degraded. They did only have a few dozen charge cycles. Newer chemistries should last even longer.

18650s will not be replaced at least for another two decades.

Maybe we should start a pool on when they stop making 18650s :stuck_out_tongue:

Wow, okay, that’s quite a prediction. I’m guessing it might be sooner, though.

There’s almost no consumer demand for 18650 cells, outside of some vapers and flashaholics. All the demand comes from manufacturers that use them in their products. Those manufacturers could switch to another form factor of cell, if it is cheaper and has better capacity, and the public wouldn’t care less.

I’m guessing that whomever wins the electric car war, will get to determine the cell type used in other products.