H600fc mk4 small review and measurements.

Actually it is the first time when I saw such problem too. Usually high-drain flashlights use CU Be springs (Noctigon) or simply thick springs.

I am pretty sure he is blowing the spring issue out if proportion. He didn’t even say if the spring was discoloured. I am sure ZL tested the light and I bet as long as a good quality cell with an appropriate current rating is used the spring will work fine. Plenty of other users have reviewed this light and no one else has said anything about an issue with the spring. Just use the lights guys and if there is an issue ZL has great customer service and a good warranty.

Almost nobody spend his time for testing. This spring is not suitable for 6A, it is simple physics.
Another report BTW Defective zebralight H600FD MK IV | Candle Power Flashlight Forum. Post #4.
Zebralight H600Fc Mk IV - First Impressions | Candle Power Flashlight Forum. Post 63 and 80

Simply not true. You may try to read the reports again.

What has been one of the excellencies of previous versions was the perfectly constant brightness output in all levels - it is a wreck right now. :confounded:
And their response just make no sense whatsoever.

I am returning the H600Fc mkIV and going back to Armytek Wizard Pro v3 (much better, smoother PID with stable output at turbo) and H600Fc mkIII (not happy about it, since I like the XHP50.2 and especially the new UI that saved me from accidentally blinding myself trying to start in moonlight in old UI). Will buy mkIV surely again after they fix it.

You don’t solve it, just hide it…

The problem persists with the mk2 tailcap? In the photo it seems a bit thicker.

The springs are almost the same. I’ll try to made 18awg bypass, after 30day guarantee.

It only draws that kind of amperage for seconds until the thermal regulation kicks and likely only on a mostly discharged cell.

And, none of those reports mention anything about the spring getting too hot or becoming discolored(a sign of over heating).

I have read the reports and no one mentioned anything about the spring overheating or discoloring.

If you are talking about the PID ringing, while I agree it should have been better tuned, it is not noticeable in normal use and the gen 4 thermal regulation is much improved over the gen 3’s in other ways(2048 micro levels vs 384, smoother less noticeable ramping).

It’s pretty funny how people blow issues out of proportion even if they have little to no effect on actual use. It’s also funny how people disregard all the good things about a light and just focus on the flaws no matter how insignificant. No light is perfect but, ZL make some of the closest ones I have found.

Have fun sitting in the dark when your Armytek dies lol. And, there lights have pretty bad ringing too by the way…

https://i.imgur.com/ZYf3NX7.jpg


may be, PID in IV version isn't optimal (tuned for max.output), but what we have in practice ?

1) max. mode for continuous use in any weather is 280lm (may be, except very hot nights), this mode has no PID.

And no problems with PID, no problems with springs.

2) In cold/moderate cold weather (as currently in my city, ~~0C) 580lm mode will work without PID and may be used for continuous use. (yes, in case of hot weather brightless will be decreased by PID.)

No problems with PID, no problems with springs.

3) For short time in any weather we can use turbo mode, 980lm, for 1-2min. With PID, but in any case we 'll receive 1-2min of bright light. It's more than user usually need for "turbo" purposes from headlamp,

for many years I use turbo mode in my Zebra headlamps for few tens seconds, <1min.

No problems with PID, no problems with springs.

4) watercooled / hard cooled tests + continuous use of 1560lm mode, other "bdsm" use, etc.

Yes, in these modes we 'll have problems with PID and problems with springs.

If you don’t know Ohms law , I can not help you to understand this simple fact.
FYI discolored take place under very hi temperature higher than the melting point of the solder.

My point is there is no safety issue and the light will still work just fine even if the performance on H1 isn’t optimal.

These are still great lights and one of the best choices for a headlamp of on the market even if they have a couple of small things that can be improved. Scaring people away from them when these are very minor issues is doing them a disservice imo.

As for these minor issues, ZL is always refining their designs and I am sure they will be improved in the future. These are brand new models and there is always a risk buying the first run of anything. Just like vehicles buying the first of a new design is always taking a risk and if want the least issues then you have to be patient and wait for all the bugs to be worked out and not buy from the first few runs.

But honestly, these issues are so minor that I doubt they would even present an issue with most people in real world use. I know for a fact the PID ringing is more of a “light meter problem” and has little effect on normal use. The new thermal regulation on these lights is so smooth that you can barely even tell its working in ideal conditions when you are trying to see it so the occilations won’t even be noticed.

Trying to obscure it helps nobody. :person_facepalming: For the money they charging, they simply should not have released it in this wretched state.

I agree FC anyway is the best L shaped headlamp. But
this issue have effect on my using, Firstly I noticed oscillation by my eyes, and only then I test FC by light meter . I just warn everybody.For some people this may be important.
The sooner ZL recognise it’s own bugs the better))

Nobody is trying to obscure it, I was simple pointing out they are minor issues and are dwarfed by the many other great attributes of this light. No light is perfect.

Well, shit happens with new products. Olight shouldn’t have released a headlamp that starts things on fire and Armytek shouldn’t have released a headlamp with a finicky charging systems that takes a ridiculously long time to charge(8+ hours with a 3500mAh cell) and can also light things on fire if the tailcap is loosened. I should also point out that all Armytek lights have terrible PID ringing as well and they have not fixed it for 8+ years. I bet ZL fixes these issues very quickly(likely in later runs of these same models like they have with past issues).

I agree and appreciate you mentioning these issues. I mentioned the PID ringing issue in my reviews of a couple of their other models as well. I just wanted to point out that these issues are minor and will not effect use for many users. However, I hope ZL sorts them out in short order and wish they would have tested these new models better to fix them before release.

You either just do not understand how PID and thin fast heating spring relates or you try to obscure it.

And I do not know all Armytek products, but Armytek Wizard Pro v3. USB has by far the smoothest, most stable steady PID in turbo from the three brands
you mention.

Olight H2R review (Headlamp/right angle, 18650, XHP50)
The thermal regulation is not very sophisticated. Instead of a PID controller the light just steps down hard when the head heats up too much. I measured this to occur at 55°C. If the light is cooled well and the head drops down to 43°C, it will momentarily reset and return to full turbo output for a short while. This results in a pumping output. The Armytek Wizard Pro v3 has a more elegant temperature control which keeps the head at a steady 60-63°C.

Armytek Wizard Pro v3 headlamp/right angle review (18650, XHP50)

“The temperature regulation works well on the Wizard Pro. With enough cooling, it can sustain output of over 1000 lumens until the battery is drained.
The boost driver is also excellent. I was able to access turbo with lesser batteries (NCR18650B) even when they were half drained.”
_

For what it’s worth I do not see any PID light fluctuation in my H600Fc IV in use. I’m not saying it isn’t happening, but if it is then it sure isn’t perceptible which is what matters to me. So far I love absolutely everything about my new ZL (my first one) and have no buyer’s remorse at all. I’m even thinking about getting another.

I don’t see in this thread anyone trying to ‘obscure’ the PID/spring claim - it’s more about not making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe it’s a mountain of a problem to some, but for me it’s a molehill since H1 is something I normally use for just a short period of time (I think of it as ‘turbo’ if i need to get my bearings in a large outdoor area or to ‘wow’ somebody). 90% or more of the time I’m in one of the lower modes since H1-level headlamp lumens is hard on peripheral vision.

On mine F600Fc it was very clearly perceptible fluctuation up and down. And for 90$ headlamps it was not acceptable. There were more issues with it than I had with any, much cheaper budget brands. I will try it again, after maybe six months, when they hopefully fix most of it. Right now, I am sorry I wasted time with it. :confounded:

Lol, I like how you selectively pick graphs to back your statement(which is totally wrong by the way).

And, I understand both quite well. I actually have done extensive testing on different lights thermal regulation.

Here is a graph(from the same review you quoted. Thanks maukka) of the Wizard Pro V3 XHP50 on its highest turbo(T2)with no cooling. Notice the severe PID ringing and how long it takes to even stabilize the ringing(much longer then this ZL). Also notice how abrupt the output changes are making them much more visible then this ZL…

Here is a high resolution graph that I recorded of the Prime Pro V3 XHP35 showing AT’s severe ringing as well…

And, here is a lower resolution graph of the same light that maukka did…

Here is an example of how thermal regulation should look when adequate dampening is added to the PID control loop. This is a high resolution graph I recorded of the Zebralight H600Fc MKIII…

You have to understand that tuning thermal regulation is tricky. If you add too much dampening it will give you a nice flat output but, can make it less accurate so to speak and slower to respond to temperature changes. It is about finding the right balance that still gives you the best performance without ringing.

This is a brand new driver being used in the MKIV lights that uses a new microcontroller and brightness adjustment mechanism as well as other changes. This is a large step forward compared to the MKIII and offers 2048 micro brightness levels vs 384 on the MKIII but, ZL clearly just hasn’t got the bugs all worked out yet. It is too bad they didn’t get it perfectly tuned before the first runs of these lights were released but, I am sure it will get better in later runs. Keep in mind, though it is not a huge problem how it is and won’t even effect most users. This new driver makes output changes so smoothly that you have to watch very closely to even see it step down.

I should also point out that accurate good quality thermal regulation is never going to offer stable output in real world use(you have to use a non-PID mode if you want that). It will constantly be adjusting to maintain the highest output possible based on the conditions. Small changes in active cooling will all cause it to fluctuate output. Changing from standing still, walking, running, biking, etc. will cause it to fluctuate. Going from inside to outside will cause it to fluctuate. Changes in shade to sunshine or rain and snow to clear skies will cause it to fluctuate. Even the cycling of temperature control systems like heating and air conditioning will cause it to fluctuate. So will small changes in passive heating like changes in your hand position the light. The most important thing is that it fluctuates as smoothly as possible and with ZL’s upgrades to this new driver, once they get the tuning right, it will be a real winner.

I bet you were looking at it against a white wall and focusing really hard to see it. Try actually using the light in a real world application and I bet you don’t notice it.

Yeah, but those budget brands are made of soft cheap Chinese aluminum, have terrible anodizing that easily chips and scratches, have mediocre machining tolerances, likely have inefficient drivers that don’t even use thermal regulation, don’t have fully programmable UI’s and PID target temperature, don’t have tightly binned 90+ CRI emitters, don’t have potted electronics, don’t use Gorilla Glass lenses, and likely have poor or no customer support or warranty. You get what you pay for man.

You are right though to wait and try again. Imo it is never a good idea to buy the first release of any product(not just flashlights). It is much smarter to wait for later runs when all the bugs have been worked out. Unfortunately early adopters often get used as beta testers in most industries.