Closed Official Haikelite MT09R *UPDATE Now including TA's Pricing for Emitter Upgrades* Closed

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hIKARInoob
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Can you perhaps do a lux reading? Maybe do it @30sec (ANSI)?

Winston Wulf
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The rooms I have are not long enough…

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hIKARInoob
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Doh!

arficus
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40% below spec! What’s the process for getting a refund? Given the circumstances I certainly won’t be willing to pay the return shipping. Mine’s still on the ground in China, “at shipper’s warehouse” – maybe Dale can retrieve it before it leaves.

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@arficus:

Before doing something like this I would expect others with the same result. From what I know there are others who ordered one and have a “real” Ullbricht device… even though I do not really expect big differences…

Actually I am the only one who has a GB and a retail version in hands to compare it.

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arficus
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“From what I know there are others who ordered one and have a “real” Ullbricht device”

Really? who/where? I have not heard of a single XHP35 that came close to spec.

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You got me wrong – I also do not know a single 35 close to the spex.

But until today just a handfull of MT09R from the GB have been delivered…

Always be yourself. Unless you can be BATMAN.

 

Then always be BATMAN.

Wieselflinkpro
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In my Lumenbox I get with thrower LEDs mostly lower readings as with floodie LEDs.
Perhaps this could be an issue in your reading. But it does not explain that big difference. Did you had the luxmeter at the opposite “surface” to the Hotspot?
I am waiting for my MT09R and will share my measurement.

Phil_84
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This is really dissapointing…im still waiting for mine, but at least its already in germany. Im gonna take a look at the beam pattern and the output compared to my current flashlight…but right now i dont think i can reach 1000m with 2500-3000 lumens less than advertised. Feeling a but fooled now and thinking about further steps.

I also think we should wait for further measurements, but if they dont go very well, we can at least see how good Haikelites new customer service is. Crying

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Wieselflinkpro wrote:
In my Lumenbox I get with thrower LEDs mostly lower readings as with floodie LEDs.

My problems start with flooders above 20.000 lm – with an X80 or an DX80 my values are not usable…

Wieselflinkpro wrote:
Perhaps this could be an issue in your reading. But it does not explain that big difference.

That’s why I said I would expect others…

Wieselflinkpro wrote:
Did you had the luxmeter at the opposite “surface” to the Hotspot?

My Luxmeter is aside the flashlight – so: yes.

Wieselflinkpro wrote:
I am waiting for my MT09R and will share my measurement.

This would be highly appreciated!

Always be yourself. Unless you can be BATMAN.

 

Then always be BATMAN.

Newlumen
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Anyone can sell me a complete light meter? I am talking about the one with the tube and so. I am serious about it.

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Ok, I found the time to make the beamshots – the pictures are indicated:

The – from my point of view – important comparison:

The 1.200 lm more between Retail & GB are clearly visible – but the difference is still far too small. This to show the difference between 3.500 lm and 6.000 lm:

But for me another point of view is more important: even though the MT09R 35 fails completely regarding the 7.500 lm (or even 7.000 lm), the point with the 1.000 m of distance seems not completely out of range. Both Tiny Monsters are measured with more than 700 m – when I see the difference between the TM28 and the Groupbuy I would say that the full distance is not completely out of range.

Before somebody asks: as written I do not have enough distance in our home to measure the lux-values – ok, I tried it on location, but my luxmeter did not survive my major fine motoric availabilities… does anybody have a good luxmeter he would recommend?

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Winston Wulf wrote:
Ok, I found the time to make the beamshots – the pictures are indicated:

From comparing the beamshots of the TM28 and the MT09R 35 HI group buy, the Haikelite appears to have better throw and to be slightly brighter overall, despite the calculations which show otherwise. Just my perception. Thank you for sharing your efforts with these lights.

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A Gif might show it better:

With a surrounding like this it’s a little bit hard to show – it can be seen much easier on a wall (which I do not like to shoot Facepalm )

As the “Lumen” are a definition of the total of the light sent out by the flashlight, it’s always hard to compare flashlights with different characteristics. While the TM26GT or the TM28 are more in the “Allrounder” area, the MT09R 35 is more something like an “Allrounder with good Throw”.

Thus said, you can see that the spot of the GB is clearly stronger – but the spil is smaller and darker. And this is where the GB (4.500 lm) looses the power against the TM28 (6.000 lm).

But while my TM28 is measured with a little bit more than 700 m of throw, the GB gives clearly more distance. As I said: from my point of view 900 m do not seem to be impossible…

… and think of that babe if it would have real 7.500 lm…

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vinte77
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Well hopefully not all the lights in the GB fail to live up to the claimed output. My light is being processed through NY right now, so hopefully it’ll arrive sometime next week.

arficus
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Any idea approximately how far away the gate is? And how far away the tree just visble behind the gate is?

SKV89
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Really appreciate your effort and time for sharing your results. Your beamshots are very useful. The GB 35 version seems a lot brighter than your retail version.

I have a few questions.

1) Do you test for lumens at startup or at 30s?

2) Have you compared your lumen results with other reviewers for the same flashlights? That way we can see if there’s a potential that your testing aparatus may result in consistently lower lumen readings.

3) You said the XHP70.2 GB unit had warmer tint than yours. What CCT is yours? If the GB unit you tested is the 4000k, unit then your 13.76 lumen result is the same as my estimate.

I just double checked my lux readings for comparison,
Olight H2R Nova NW 308 at startup (Several reviews put this at about 2,360+ lumens at 30s)
Acebeam H15 NW 324 at startup
Astrolux MF01 219c 1,220 at startup (known to putout 9-10k lumens)
Manker MK34 219c 4000k 560 at startup (measured 4,914 lumens in Advanced Knife Bro’s youtube review)
Emisar D4 XPL v2 HI 4000k 420 at startup (known to produce 3,800-4,000 lumens)
MT09R XHP70.2 5000k 2,170 at startup
MT09R XHP70.2 4000k 1,640 at startup

From my data, the the XHP70.2 500k version should produce around 17k lumens and the 4000k version should produce 13k lumens.

Winston Wulf wrote:
Ok, folks, I promised to keep you updated.

As written before, ulf1m sent me his two MT09R for a comparison – another time “Thank You!”. They arrived just a couple of hours ago and I gave them some time to reach their temperature – actually we have something around -2°C.

Obvious points:

- we have different colours – so no problem with mixing something up
- his 70 has the identical lot number like mine – as you know, the “SN” is not a serial, but a lot number
- his 35 has a *different *lot number – so let’s hope the best…

I checked the values with different batteries – I found out that the MT09R is a lady and has a very special taste. I got the best results with LG HG2, others in the TLF use the VTC6. By the way let me use this for two points:

- even though the “battery protection” in the MT09R does not exist, I do not recommend protected batteries, because the tension on the springs is very high when you really want to close the cap…
- in the TLF we have some indications that seem to show a slightly higher output with not completely charged batteries – don’t ask me why, but I thing I remember something similar in the MT03…

To keep it short, these are the results:

- my 70: 12.910 lm
- his 70: 13.760 lm

- my 35: 3.400 lm
- his 35: 4.570 lm

Conclusion:

- I can not indcate the color temperature – his 70 seem to be slightly warmer than mine.
- the batteries had also impact on my results – they are slightly higher than with the first test
- the 35 of ulf1m is still miles away from specification – even though it is more than 30% stronger than mine, it is still 40% below the spex that were used for sellling it
- ulf1m’s 35 temperature rises even faster than in mine

I will try to do some beamshots tonight – maybe I can make the difference visible.

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Winston Wulf wrote:
Ok, folks, I promised to keep you updated.

As written before, ulf1m sent me his two MT09R for a comparison – another time “Thank You!”. They arrived just a couple of hours ago and I gave them some time to reach their temperature – actually we have something around -2°C.

Obvious points:

- we have different colours – so no problem with mixing something up
- his 70 has the identical lot number like mine – as you know, the “SN” is not a serial, but a lot number
- his 35 has a *different *lot number – so let’s hope the best…

I checked the values with different batteries – I found out that the MT09R is a lady and has a very special taste. I got the best results with LG HG2, others in the TLF use the VTC6. By the way let me use this for two points:

- even though the “battery protection” in the MT09R does not exist, I do not recommend protected batteries, because the tension on the springs is very high when you really want to close the cap…
- in the TLF we have some indications that seem to show a slightly higher output with not completely charged batteries – don’t ask me why, but I thing I remember something similar in the MT03…

To keep it short, these are the results:

- my 70: 12.910 lm
- his 70: 13.760 lm

- my 35: 3.400 lm
- his 35: 4.570 lm

Conclusion:

- I can not indcate the color temperature – his 70 seem to be slightly warmer than mine.
- the batteries had also impact on my results – they are slightly higher than with the first test
- the 35 of ulf1m is still miles away from specification – even though it is more than 30% stronger than mine, it is still 40% below the spex that were used for sellling it
- ulf1m’s 35 temperature rises even faster than in mine

I will try to do some beamshots tonight – maybe I can make the difference visible.

Thank you for the update Thumbs Up

The results are disappointing, but not unexpected. It’s going to be interesting to see some more measurements when more of the groupbuy lights arrive, but I expect they will be more or less the same.

Thank you for taking the time to do this.

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SKV89 wrote:
Really appreciate your effort and time for sharing your results. Your beamshots are very useful. The GB 35 version seems a lot brighter than your retail version.

Thank you!

SKV89 wrote:
I have a few questions.

That’s why we are here.

SKV89 wrote:
1) Do you test for lumens at startup or at 30s?

The lumens have been tested at startup – but based on Post #929 the decrease is continuously, so the difference between 0s and 30s can be neglected..

SKV89 wrote:
2) Have you compared your lumen results with other reviewers for the same flashlights? That way we can see if there’s a potential that your testing aparatus may result in consistently lower lumen readings.

Actually it seems like I am the first one who tested a GB-version. My test of the retail-version is very similar to another one sold in Germany and also near to the values Terry measured for the prototype.

Regarding my general measurements I compared it inside the TLF and they are in general in the area of others – so it seems to be on the same level. Also the values I receive for other flashlights are on the level of what others measure with there Ullbricht sphere. My Luxmeter seemed to work quite well – another point why I am actually quite upset…

SKV89 wrote:
3) You said the XHP70.2 GB unit had warmer tint than yours. What CCT is yours? If the GB unit you tested is the 4000k, unit then your 13.76 lumen result is the same as my estimate.

Actually they only have CW in retail – the CCT of the GB-version is not indicated. But especially for you I murdered my strict “no wall-shots”-policy:

From my point of view the GB must be the one with 5.000 K

SKV89 wrote:
From my data, the the XHP70.2 500k version should produce around 17k lumens and the 4000k version should produce 13k lumens.

As written above, the GB70 I have in hands seems to be the 5.000K – and as written it gives a good 6% more power than my 6.000 K. But from my point of view 17 klm are far away – see the comparison with the DT70

Another point discussed was the difference between the GB35 (4.500 lm) and the TM28 (6.000 lm). From my point of view, it can be explained best with the wallshot (again!). While the MT09R35 give its power to the Spot, the TM28 has a bigger and more powerfull Spill, together with a bigger Spot:

… its hard to show it with a photo…

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Im anxious to get some actual lumen tests of the cool white version of xhp35… i really hope it not just max 5000 lumens that would really be a dissapointment..

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I will make a new test as soon as I have my new luxmeter. It’s already ordered.

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Then always be BATMAN.

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Winston Wulf wrote:
Ok, folks, I promised to keep you updated. As written before, ulf1m sent me his two MT09R for a comparison - another time "Thank You!". They arrived just a couple of hours ago and I gave them some time to reach their temperature - actually we have something around -2°C. Obvious points: - we have different colours - so no problem with mixing something up - his 70 has the identical lot number like mine - as you know, the "SN" is not a serial, but a lot number - his 35 has a *different *lot number - so let's hope the best... I checked the values with different batteries - I found out that the MT09R is a lady and has a very special taste. I got the best results with LG HG2, others in the TLF use the VTC6. By the way let me use this for two points: - even though the "battery protection" in the MT09R does not exist, I do not recommend protected batteries, because the tension on the springs is very high when you really want to close the cap... - in the TLF we have some indications that seem to show a slightly higher output with not completely charged batteries - don't ask me why, but I thing I remember something similar in the MT03... To keep it short, these are the results: - my 70: 12.910 lm - his 70: 13.760 lm - my 35: 3.400 lm - his 35: 4.570 lm *Conclusion*: - I can not indcate the color temperature - his 70 seem to be slightly warmer than mine. - the batteries had also impact on my results - they are slightly higher than with the first test - the 35 of ulf1m is still miles away from specification - even though it is more than 30% stronger than mine, it is still 40% below the spex that were used for sellling it - ulf1m's 35 temperature rises even faster than in mine I will try to do some beamshots tonight - maybe I can make the difference visible.

 

What manner of testing are you doing for these readings. 

I am not trying ti argue or even trying to dispute your post. As of right now I still do not have a 35 high that I can actually test myself I only know that the calculations show it should easily do.

 

The 70.2 on the other hand I have proven on video not once but several times that the 70.2 will easily hit 15k lumen and most of the time closer to 16k.

The readings you are posting are about 3k lower than my own and factory testing of the 70,2 so I can easily believe that if however you are measuring the lights has you 3k lumen lower than my own testing and what you are posting on the 35 high version appears to be almost exactly 3k lumen short of what the expected output should be.

Actually that makes me feel pretty confident in the actual output of the 35 high before I even get to test it. If you are 3k lower than I can show right this moment on a 70.2 version and also show readings of many other well known lights that will show the correct output using the gear I have been suing for over 3 years now to be at least 15k lumen if not more then I should get a similar reading when I do get to test a 35 high. If your is 3k low then mine should be dead close to what is expected. Just judging by the numbers that you have posted.

 

I just tested a totally new untouched 70.2 and 15789 lumen on the first test. If you are 3k below that on both models then I feel better already without getting to test one yet.

 

I will still not pass judgment until I do have one in my hands that I can test though all 3 of my integrating spheres.

 

 

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Any member here in the U.S. that may have already received your ordered MT09R 35 high in CW version if you do not halve the equipment to test the light I will pay for the shipping both ways to me and back if you will ship it to me for testing.

I have a very large shipment that is on the way but importing more than a single light is much harder and takes time and money so  it takes much longer. I do not have a 35 high version that I can either sell or test.

 

I will pay for shipping both ways just to be able to test it. Contact me by PM if you happen to have one that has already arrived here in the U.S.

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Winston Wulf wrote:
I will make a new test as soon as I have my new luxmeter. It's already ordered.

 

Just need to ask... How did you take the measurements that you posted if not with a lux meter?

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Somehow guys I stopped getting update email for this thread so I am just now getting to read all of the posts for the last couple of days.

 

The very first thing I want to take time to point out is that I let the entire world watch as I took the measurements of the 70.2 version of the MTO9R not once but twice and I have personally tested 5 that I have sold and shipped from my own warehouse. 

You all saw the video and saw the lights easily made the 15k lumen output level. If anyone happens to get a Warm White tint it may and I say may because I do not have and have to tested a warm white tint yet. But it is possible that it will fall about 1k lumen lower just because of the the tint.

Back on point here. Everyone has saw that I have already proven it and anyone that has ordered one from me can tell you that their light was tested and if they wish I welcome them to please test yourself and verify the inspection label that was on your light when you got it.

 

My next point. Why in any manner of anything sensible would anyone post anything about what the light output of a light ordered in a group buy that I organized and they do not even own a lux meter.

 

I can not stress enough just how much I must implore you to please if you know how to and you have a lux meter to do your own testing

I do not yet have a 35 high version that I can test but I promise you that one is coming and I will post totally honest results. I have never posted false readings on any light made by anyone and I will never do so.

 

How in the world can you post anything about the lumen output of a light that I am representing without the proper equipment to get you to even a 10% reliability.

A photo cell on a mobile phone is by far too small and inaccurate on even the best of phones to attempt to use them as a reliable means of measuring light at these levels.

I personally own a Samsung S8 less than a year old and I can tell you that it is no where near close to the accuracy of even the least expensive of my light meter.

 

I am seeing post with actual claimed output levels but I am not seeing what was used to take these measurements.

I will not debate this person any further on the matter of either of these lights.

 

I will however ask members to please if you have the equipment and the knowledge to take your own measurements.

 

LOL I have an even better way.. Do it the way we use to many years ago and that is, buy a light. Turn it on. If you like it... Excellent....

One other thing I will mention. Out of all of the pictures I see posted it does appear at least to me that the MT09R 35 high is easily brighter than any of the others pictured lol... 

 

     

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Winston Wulf wrote:
@arficus: Before doing something like this I would expect others with the same result. From what I know there are others who ordered one and have a "real" Ullbricht device... even though I do not really expect big differences... Actually I am the only one who has a GB and a retail version in hands to compare it.

 

In other words... The measurements and posted spec from these posts are totally inaccurate because this person does not have a meter to take the measurements.And, it would be a better idea to wait and take measurements yourself please if you have a meter.

If you do not have a meter possibly watch the video of the guy that shows and totally proves that the 70.2 not only makes 15k lumen but exceeds it. From what I hear he is a pretty honest guy and actually films himself taking the measurements and shows that the device he is using to be what one would consider reasonably calibrated to within at least + or - 5%.

I have no idea how the output levels that were posted earlier in this thread were measured. It is not stated in it anywhere and it is clearly stated in other posts that this person needs recommendations for a good lux meter.

 

Guys please be responsible with what you post. Especially if it is posted in another members thread. I have no clue what the deal with this member is and at this point it no longer matters. Why in the world would you take the word from someone that does not even own the correct equipment to take measurements. 

 

LOL I was actually testing all of my gear... making sure I have everything set up correctly and calibrated correctly then I finally noticed. 

My gear is fine and has been for several years. This person does not have the correct tools to make such statements.

 

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Here is why you really need calibrated meters and equipment if you are going to attempt to tell people what the output level of a flashlight is. 

LOL it really is a good little experiment you can do that will show you just how far off the readings you are getting from something other than a dedicated lux meter even an inexpensive one can be.

 

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khas
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Haikelite USA Official wrote:

In other words… The measurements and posted spec from these posts are totally inaccurate because this person does not have a meter to take the measurements.And, it would be a better idea to wait and take measurements yourself please if you have a meter.

He apparently dropped his luxmeter :

Winston Wulf wrote:
Before somebody asks: as written I do not have enough distance in our home to measure the lux-values – ok, I tried it on location, but my luxmeter did not survive my major fine motoric availabilities… does anybody have a good luxmeter he would recommend?

Winston Wulf is also a respected and active member of the the German flashlight forum TLF, and I am very happy that he also wants to share his findings with us here on BLF.

Until more of the group buy lights are delivered and tested we will just have patient Smile

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khas wrote:
Haikelite USA Official wrote:

In other words... The measurements and posted spec from these posts are totally inaccurate because this person does not have a meter to take the measurements.And, it would be a better idea to wait and take measurements yourself please if you have a meter.

He apparently dropped his luxmeter :
Winston Wulf wrote:
Before somebody asks: as written I do not have enough distance in our home to measure the lux-values - ok, I tried it on location, but my luxmeter did not survive my major fine motoric availabilities... does anybody have a good luxmeter he would recommend?
Winston Wulf is also a respected and active member of the the German flashlight forum TLF, and I am very happy that he also wants to share his findings with us here on BLF. Until more of the group buy lights are delivered and tested we will just have patient :-)

 

Those are finding based on nothing... making claims based on simple observations and not facts that can be backed up and supported by anything other than "Here is what I believe". I'm sorry I'm suppose to respect that how?

 

 

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khas wrote:
Haikelite USA Official wrote:
In other words... The measurements and posted spec from these posts are totally inaccurate because this person does not have a meter to take the measurements.And, it would be a better idea to wait and take measurements yourself please if you have a meter.
He apparently dropped his luxmeter :
Winston Wulf wrote:
Before somebody asks: as written I do not have enough distance in our home to measure the lux-values - ok, I tried it on location, but my luxmeter did not survive my major fine motoric availabilities... does anybody have a good luxmeter he would recommend?
Winston Wulf is also a respected and active member of the the German flashlight forum TLF, and I am very happy that he also wants to share his findings with us here on BLF. Until more of the group buy lights are delivered and tested we will just have patient :-)
 A lux meter alone will not give you the calculations necessary to state anything as even close to fact. Especially one that now does not exist. I really do not get what the issue is with this person and this company but dating back to it's beginning out of any issues the company had one issue they got right of the 9 models I own and have tested is the output almost always exceeds specifiations. More often than not overpowered lights were the issue.  For some reason this seems to be some kind of fun thing almost a game...  For me it is how I earn a living and I have never and will never overstate any product of any kind at all. Thing is... if you really can't back up and show or support a claim that clearly is basically saying the fact and figures I posted from my own tests is wrong. For me to back off... Prove the findings. I proved mine over and over.  Show me something other than words typed out saying my feeling is or what I think. I think a lot of things but I only post facts I fuilly support and show as being real not just words.

 

 

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