Closed Official Haikelite MT09R *UPDATE Now including TA's Pricing for Emitter Upgrades* Closed

@ Phil_84:

That reminds me of asking you to get me the new driver for my friends 35… :sunglasses:

@ SKV89:

This was a misunderstanding - I referred to Phils statement regarding the output. Here in the TLF none of the lights reached much more than 4.000 lm, so this is what I compare to the 5.500-6.000 lm mentioned by TA. The 7.000 he indicated are in combination with the new driver AND the new LEDs - so I expect something around 5.000 lm max, but with a completely refurbished flashlight that has nothing to do with stock.

Or the XHP35 in the US are already “newer” versions nearer to the spex? I do not know and I also do not expect this, because the one Wieselflinkpro received just these days was sent far after CNY…

Don’t get me wrong - I would have loved to see the 7.500 lm. But while the XHP70.2 is a real bomb (from my point of view already from the beginning - I only count output, heat or so is less important for me personally), the XHP35 is a pain in the part of the body you sit on.

strange how can NW get more lumens then CW ?

It is not uncommon now days. The CW usually gets a ~10% advantage due to meter bias but I have seen 80CRI LED’s that give almost the same lumens as higher bin 70 CRI LED’s (such as the XHP70.2’s I am using that are only 1-2k lumens less then I expect from P2 bin 70 CRI).

This is mostly due to the Vf of the LED, the neutral LED’s are simply pulling more power if I had to guess. Once again it is pretty common for wamrer tints and higher CRI LED’s to have lower Vf and thus pull more power.

Specially when the manufacture (CREE) of the LED rates (CW) Higher in out put. So I tend to disregard everything else, seeing the manufacture has lab equipment for measuring out put. I don’t think (Cree) they use really cheap light meters from Bang-U Good or Fastech?

You are comparing the wrong LED’s. you should be comparing this 4000k P2 bin xhp70.2 to that 5700k P2 bin. Both of which are rated exactly the same, in which case the +/- 7% tolerance that they have makes it luck which one is brighter all else being equal. The warmer versions generally have a bit lower Vf as well.

You are also not factoring in the lower Vf that the warmer / high CRI LED’s generally have in order to reach the efficiency guaranties set by cree. With a regulated driver this is a non-issue but with a FET Direct driver driver such as these the warmer LED’s generally pull more current. That extra current = more lumens and the outcome in my L6 for example is around 30% more current with 80cri LED all else being the same.

The net outcome was a bit over 9k lumens with the 70cri and around ~8500 lumens with the 80cri. It is not an equal test in that they are using vastly different power levels to reach those numbers but it is real world results. Which is what I was talking about earlier. Interestingly, the lower Vf of the 80cri meant that the overall efficiency was actually not that much worse then the 70cri version.

In the MT09R, the stock LED’s were pulling 25-30A and my 80CRI LED’s are pulling around 40A.

Now, when it comes to the stock LED’s, we have no idea what the bins are on the LED’s. They are not top bin, that is for sure. So it is probable that the NW are simply a higher bin LED, and thus get higher lumen numbers. Although the numbers are so close you would not notice the difference anyways.

Okay I finally for to test one of TA's new drivers and keep in mind this is version 1 he is currently perfecting version 2 which will be a bit better.

I plan to go out and take a little video footage and try to get it posted ASAP.

Narsil at it's best at full ramp on the 35 high version 5590 lumen, a quick double click and go into turbo and I was easily getting 6450 lumen using one of my better matched sets of 30q's. I can promise you that all thermal protection works perfectly. You can almost bank on the the step down when it get to set temp.

Originally I was going to do this with an upgraded set of emitters but there were some light issues with the emitters not the light or driver so I just removed it from the test light and place it in a totally new stock factory light with factory emitters. Cool white.

I do still have a few available that will be fitted with TA's driver when it is completed that will be sold a special TA edition MT09R. Keep in mind that the drivers are not free I have to pay for them like everyone else if ordering from TA. And I do believe I would prefer my own to be hand assembled by TA.

Now this light KICKS A**

I’ve been meaning to ask… can someone who has both a CW XHP35HI and a NW XHP35HI describe, or post a photo of, the colour difference between the two? As I showed in my post #1251, the “NW” that I received looks very much like a CW (cooler than a CW Acebeam light I have), so I’m wondering if the CW XHP35HI looks about the same, or if it’s even cooler than my very cool NW.

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/49135/1251

Okay guys the video is not very long but the distance of the 35 high shot is lol 822 yards.

I did make it pretty short. Most of you all know TA and you all know Narsil. TA has turned a decent light into a bad a** light.

www.youtube.com/embed/-20uLlyhBrE

I’d like to see those comparison tint too. I have xhp35NW but looks CW to me. So, I wonder if Haikelite sent me the wrong tint.

One calculation I forgot. I just measured it 3 times at 5 meters using 2 different meters and it's right.

Keep in mind this is using TA's version 1 driver in a 35 high MT09R

Total lumen output for the version 1 driver I have been playing around with is 6500... It will be extremely hard to get very much more without overdriving the LED's.

The overall output for a thrower is not nearly as important as what is actually designed to do which is throw.

So far it's easily 1000 meter thrower.

That video I really wished I had put a camera much closer to the target so it would show a little better just how well at 822 yards it can easily light it up.

If time and local law enforcement will cooperate I may do that shot again. But if you can see it on camera that is at the same distance as the light you can bank on having made the grade.

At 5 meters I got a reading of 11300 lux... if you understand how to do the math double check. Lol I did 3 times with 2 meters.

Total 1130000 est. Throw of 1063 meters.

Can't complain about that at all

Maybe only that it did not do this right in the beginning like it was mentioned in the spex…

But the value itself seems very good. Did you also measure the lumen output?

I was sent one of both for testing, I have not tried them side by side yet but one after the other there is a noticeable difference but the NW is on the cooler side of Neutral I would say for sure.

There is a variance in the tint of LED’s in general and seeing as these are pretty low bin, I am guessing that the binning is also not very tight. So this is not very surprising.

This proves exactly what I said about the trouble makers.

If you don't have anything positive to add to the conversation.. just move along..

I'm not sure if you remember me telling you when I first called you.. for some odd reason all the NW 70.2 versions were measuring higher than the CW... it is usually the other way around. Not really enough to matter but somehow all the NW models did measure higher.

Like I explained earlier with low bin emitters like they are using in these lights, there is every possibility that the NW is simply a higher bin or has a lower Vf. So It is not that surprising really.

Plus with the latest gen emitters they are releasing the top bins in the warmer tints now. So the days of CW always being brighter are numbered.

Terry, I don’t think this tit for tat does anything for the GB and your business. I’ve been following both your GBs and I think that there are positive things you tried to do but there are a lot of things that just didn’t help the situation at all. I think a lot of members/buyers took a chance on this GB, even though Haikelite has less than a stellar reputation around here because YOU vouched for them and said that things were going to be different. Due to your positive energy about the lights and the company, people decided to take a risk and join the GB. Now let’s get this straight you did this GB not only out of your graciousness to provide us with a discount but it was also to promote the brand and your new business. So it doesn’t sit well with some of us when you imply that you were only trying to bring forum members a benefit with discounted price on lights and you were only trying your best to help everyone out here.

Now we only “risked” our $105-$125 to buy the lights but that is a decent amount of faith for our budget light community. Especially considering Haikelite’s track record around here. Of course this is nothing when compared to the amount of money you have lost on this GB, but then again this is a business venture for you, unlike us. I think we all sympathize with you for being in an unfortunate situation but that is also the cost of starting a new business. I think many of us here that have had their own business or own their own business can sympathize with you even more.

Now Haikelite, the manufacturer, may have made a lot of false promises to you and us. However, where you fell short here was not being upfront with us and continuing to spin everything in a positive way even though the situation was less than positive. I’m not going to list what the shortcomings are since I think everyone here knows what I’m talking about. It really doesn’t help when we are just looking for answers, when you make comments like, well even though it’s not up to the promised specs, it’s still a good light and a good bargain.

Still I think you did great by trying to pull through and rectify the situation as best as possible and we appreciate your efforts and the discounted price. If are more straightforward with your statements and keep the puffery to a low, I think that people will continue to buy lights from you.

Being a fan of WW/NW, that’s great to hear! Can’t wait to see your final driver version in action!

He still has 1 NW 35 high there for testing and I think I still have 2 NW 70.2 's left and I can't wait to see how it works out.

Every NW I've tested even the stock driver I got better numbers...

The driver I have been playing with is version 1... You guys are going to love the completed version 2.

Hello guys

We are preparing the shipment for all charging unit during group buy. As the packing for charging unit has not got ready, we will use normal packing to ensure the safe arrival this time.

For those who has issue with original 09R driver, we will send a replacement driver later which designed by TA later.

Best Regards!
Dale

Thanks Dale... several people had asked about that.

Guys there is your answer...