Like I explained earlier with low bin emitters like they are using in these lights, there is every possibility that the NW is simply a higher bin or has a lower Vf. So It is not that surprising really.
Plus with the latest gen emitters they are releasing the top bins in the warmer tints now. So the days of CW always being brighter are numbered.
Terry, I don’t think this tit for tat does anything for the GB and your business. I’ve been following both your GBs and I think that there are positive things you tried to do but there are a lot of things that just didn’t help the situation at all. I think a lot of members/buyers took a chance on this GB, even though Haikelite has less than a stellar reputation around here because YOU vouched for them and said that things were going to be different. Due to your positive energy about the lights and the company, people decided to take a risk and join the GB. Now let’s get this straight you did this GB not only out of your graciousness to provide us with a discount but it was also to promote the brand and your new business. So it doesn’t sit well with some of us when you imply that you were only trying to bring forum members a benefit with discounted price on lights and you were only trying your best to help everyone out here.
Now we only “risked” our $105-$125 to buy the lights but that is a decent amount of faith for our budget light community. Especially considering Haikelite’s track record around here. Of course this is nothing when compared to the amount of money you have lost on this GB, but then again this is a business venture for you, unlike us. I think we all sympathize with you for being in an unfortunate situation but that is also the cost of starting a new business. I think many of us here that have had their own business or own their own business can sympathize with you even more.
Now Haikelite, the manufacturer, may have made a lot of false promises to you and us. However, where you fell short here was not being upfront with us and continuing to spin everything in a positive way even though the situation was less than positive. I’m not going to list what the shortcomings are since I think everyone here knows what I’m talking about. It really doesn’t help when we are just looking for answers, when you make comments like, well even though it’s not up to the promised specs, it’s still a good light and a good bargain.
Still I think you did great by trying to pull through and rectify the situation as best as possible and we appreciate your efforts and the discounted price. If are more straightforward with your statements and keep the puffery to a low, I think that people will continue to buy lights from you.
Being a fan of WW/NW, that’s great to hear! Can’t wait to see your final driver version in action!
He still has 1 NW 35 high there for testing and I think I still have 2 NW 70.2 's left and I can't wait to see how it works out.
Every NW I've tested even the stock driver I got better numbers...
The driver I have been playing with is version 1... You guys are going to love the completed version 2.
Hello guys
We are preparing the shipment for all charging unit during group buy. As the packing for charging unit has not got ready, we will use normal packing to ensure the safe arrival this time.
For those who has issue with original 09R driver, we will send a replacement driver later which designed by TA later.
Best Regards!
Dale
Thanks Dale... several people had asked about that.
Guys there is your answer...
Thanks Dale and Terry!
Good tidings!
Whew.... I don't know about you guys but finally at the end of what has turned into an excellent team effort to solve issues.
I could use a very cold beer...
Winston Wulf,
At the risk of being added as the third troublemaker in Terry’s list, I would like to say I have not found your posts to be unnecessarily negative, mean spirited, or provocative. Rather, they have frequently been quite relevant, informative, and as far as I’m concerned your contribution(s) are welcome here.
I’ve been active on usenet since the early 90’s (arguably the “primal” model of contemporary forumming), and I would venture that there are not many hard rules to forum posting in general. But, I think most of us might agree that if the central theme of a post is to diminish or besmirch someones character, that post is, at best, worthy of being ignored. A bit of dramatic flair when engaged in an otherwise reasonable debate seems to be well tolerated. But when, by use of cliched negative association and derogatory assertion, a post appears to have the singular intention of simply making someone feel unwelcome, I feel affronted, concerned that the power so commonly wielded by cults of personality and privilege will come to dominate this space, neuter the potential of what is perhaps the most significant development in human communication since the printing press.
Or perhaps I’m merely overly sensitive to bullying. Take your pick, it ain’t pretty…
Heikelite hired subcontractors to develop a driver.
Once the light hit production it turned out that some lights flicker.
Well, it happens. Fix it and move on. Fix the culprit by switching to a better subcontractor.
That’s OK way of handling the issue. Also send a fixed driver to the buyers. That’s a good way of handling the issue, despite the fact that quite a few buyers will be unable to solder the driver.
But the drivers were also missing some important features too (LVP, thermal control). And the presence or absence of that features were easy to verify. If they didn’t find the problem, they clearly didn’t do a regular test of what they put in their product and that’s bad. I hope they learn from this lesson as well.
I would also like to express my disappointment with them faking the specs again.
Now that I learned that they used very low bin LEDs (that should never happen in a brand light) I view MT09R as a very interesting host with some rubbish inside.
I was not a fan of Haikelite, but in MT09R I see 3 red flags:
Sounds much like Astrolux to me. But for a premium price.
good news, i asked before to buy 1 charger before will i get info when to pay?
Okay with Critics and debates not withstanding I do still have MT09R's in both models and TA should be completing the final version of the drivers very soon and I have already requested enough drivers for the units I have left.
There is a slight difference in price but that is just to cover my cost of the drivers.
Orders can be placed anytime and they will ship the same day the drivers arrive and I install them.
Future models should have the same driver but that will be several weeks before I can even hope to order them myself.
https://hesaidshesaidsales.com/shop?olsPage=products
I am not sure I would say very low bin but not high bin for sure. If I had to guess I would say around C4 bin, so middle of the road, just low bin compared to what we usually aim for around here. I have seen MUCH worse LED’s in the cheaper brands. At least the tint on these is ok (for being on the cooler side) and the output is within reason.
I do agree that they should stop advertising specs before they actually measure a light. I actually had a long talk with Dale about this very subject last night. It doesn’t sound like they have a lumen sphere they can use and just have to go off the specs of the LED for the output.
I told them to send me a prototype light from now on and I will test it for them and get the real numbers along with looking over the light for any issues. Who knows if he will take me up on it.
My personal expectation is that a premium brand should strive to get the best bin.
Upper middle end (that’s where I think Haikelite wants to be) should use the best easily available, in exceptional cases one down.
A quality budget brand (think Convoy) is fine with whatever provides the most lm/$…when counting the price of the entire light, not just LED. This is usually higher than the middle of the pack really.
Anything below that qualifies as junk to me.
Maybe I was overly harsh in saying the ~C4 leds were junk. But they were clearly not something to be expected from a light like that.
I wouldn’t hold my breath, as that’s not the Chinese business model or culture. If there is a means of claiming higher performance, ie. the manufacturers specs plus doing the math for their application on paper, they will claim the higher number and blame any shortfalls on the sub-manufacturer.
Taking the extra step of sending a product to test it to see if it may actually perform at a LOWER level than theoretical would be very countercultural and wouldn’t make sense to them or the business model they work in.
Watch out!!
Terry is on his way to call you a TROUBLEMAKER!!
I wanted to share with you guys, that some people are very happy with this GB. It was posted on the sc26 GB, just in case you don’t follow that GB, here is the link:
I agree, I have told them a few times to get better LED’s. There seems to be a lot more going on over at HL them we see.
Dale did ask me where to get P2 bin XHP70.2 LED’s yesterday, so that is a good sign.
Sounds promising! Maybe they will launch a new version of the MT09R with the upgraded LEDs and your driver out of the factory… I would buy one asap.
Otherwise we would have to ask you TA for a complete overhaul of some lights we sent you. There are a few people @TLF in Germany who would really get their hands on your 23k Lumen prototype …
I could live with this title most likely…
The performance of the MT09R XHP70.2 is in another league compared w/ the Astrolux MF01. My MT09R 5000k NW with advertised 15k lumens measures 2,170 lx whereas the Astrolux with advertised 11,526 lumens measures only 1,220 lx with ceiling bounce. I’ve used the MF01 for my structural inspection work and gave up on it. The driver is a joke. The turbo step down is so quick and drastic, it is completely useless and the UI is bad. I stored my MF01 away and probably will never use it anymore. I use my MT09R for the same purpose and it serves my purpose very well and the stock driver, although not perfect, is still way better than the MF01.
Calling it a “premium price” is ridiculously non factual. Even w/ the XHP35 version that did’t meet the specs, I did a quick search online for same performance class flashlights, and here are the results:
Fenix TK75 2018 (specified 5,000 lumens, 850m throw) on sale for $220
Acebeam K65 (specified 6,200 lumens, 1014m throw) $224
Nitecore TM28 (specified 6,000 lumens, 655m throw) $400
Imalent DT35 (specified 8,500 lumens, 1,000m throw) $245
Thrunite TN40 2016 (specified 4,450 lumens, 1,151m throw) on sale for $170
Haikelite MT09R XHP35 (specified 7,000 lumens, 1,000m throw) (measured 5,500 - 6,500 lumens, ??? throw) $105
The GB price is less than half for comparable performing lights. Even w/ TA and Terry’s measured 5.5k to 6.5k measured lumens, the XHP35 version is still the BEST deal available.
It’s these harsh, exaggerated, and non constructive comments that will ruin the likelihood of those of us that are appreciative from getting more GBs in the future. With that said, I don’t think hIKARInoob and Winston Wulf’s comments were intended to cause trouble. It sounded like they actually like the light but just wanted to offer some objective info. I find their data/input useful as sharing info is what these forums are for. I would still love to read their findings but I guess on a separate thread per Terry’s request.