High CRI leds, comparing R9 values, XP-G3 N219c N218b XM-L2 XP-L2

Staticx57 probably measured that himself. I have never seen a measurement other than the one in the datasheet (it includes a simple spectrum, looks the same as here).

This LED is not produced anymore though and was hideously expensive (50$ when not on sale) and inefficient.

So what’s the best high CRI, high R9 LED that you can buy today? I hate to ask since it may tempt me to build another flashlight, but if there’s another LED that’s significantly better than the Nichia 219C D240 on 20mm MTN DTP CU - 90+ CRI 4000K, I’m certainly interested.

People in this group buy thread bought up the grail N219b LEDs such as the sw45 9080, maybe ask for help there

this chart originally by maukka shows and example set of 219C that he tested.

They are available here

Unless you run across any 219C Deviants, your best bet, as Jon stated, would be to go with 219b 9080 (sw40 and sw45) LEDs from the group buy, since they have a pedigree.

Currently available:
Maukka showed the 219c sm303 9050s from Clemence as coming closer to the ANSI BBL than the 4k and 3.5k
(sm403 and sm353).
You can always get lucky with 5 and 7 step Nichias when hunting for R9, as Jon can attest.
Lower luminance rated leds (D200 and D220) are normally a better choice for red/rosey in the 4k and under range.
As mentioned, it boils down to personal taste, with many insisting the lower CRI 219c sm505 with higher luminous flux appear to have more red in their tint than the sm503 9050, therefore YMMV…….Remembering a reflector can make a great difference, along with the level an LED is driven.

A reddish tint does not mean that the R9-value is high!

Certainly not for a technophile….however, do you have a better ‘experiential’ manner of elucidation for a layman?

Interesting presumption to say the least, regarding somebody offering information?

Does CREE have a problem beyond tint, venturing into credibility?

Does apologizing for CREEn make 40-60% R9 less objectionable?

How does that E21a look in a most existing reflector lights?
Might be less than forceful unless you gang them up, with resultant crosses and other aberrations?
How does this LED fit into the needs and intention of the OP, and person wanting to know what is available for his particular project?
Fifty cents each is a bargain to have them reflowed by Clemence, but he lives in Bali Indonésia.

My E21’s arrived from Clemence today,ordered on 8th march,so no worse than typical chinese vendor,and more reliable.

For example you can have a flashlight with a perfect “snow” white tint, but when you light things up with this light, colors look “dull”. If specificallY red objects look dull, then the R9 value is probably low.

Tint is something you can see when you light up a white surface.

The r9 value can only be seen when you light up red (maybe also dark brown) colored objects. Basically how much the color “pops” (stands out).

That is a weird comment! When somebody posts a measurement like that it’s natural to presume that he made it himself (he didn’t state the source). Maukkas measurements look different (his software calculated all of the values).

I really don’t understand the intention of some of your comments. “Apologizing for Cree”?!? I stated simple facts, that is all. Most white LEDs have 65-75CRI and very low, usually negative R9-values. That is needed for very high efficiency. So Cree high-cri LEDs with an R9-values of 40-60 and CRI of >=90 are indeed much better than standard LEDs. That’s just obvious.

Just to clear up any confusion, these are the two factors I wanted to investigate:

Which of the 10 charted LEDs has the highest R9?
Which of the 10 charted LEDs has the most Rosy tint?

Highest R9 in 219b, lower R9 in 219c and Cree.

Coincidental Observations:
The Higher the R9 the Rosier the Tint
The lower the R9 the Yellow/Greener the Tint.
the pattern is consistent for all 10 High CRI LEDs I was comparing.

Yes I did measure these myself using the software CT&A and an XRite i1 Pro Spectrophotometer


Although the sw45 219b 9080s are shown by Nichia to be on or below the ANSI BBL….the lower temperature 219b 9080s straddle the BBL.
Most 3 step 219c Nichias are centered slightly above, using the more modern binning system.

The rose/pink/magenta phosphor mix of the sw45 9080s look unreal to some, and like eye candy to others.

I also found the lens can make a big difference too. I built a Convoy S2+ with a Nichia 219C R9050 90+ CRI 4000K, and with the non-AR glass lens the beam was good, but there was an annoying yellow ring around the hotspot (ie. corona). I also noticed that there was a small crack that formed on the LED dome, which created an artifact in the beam.

So I decided to make a diffused lens from some acrylic plastic, but it made the tint a little more yellow.

I then sanded down one side of the glass lens to make it frosted and the resulting beam turned out awesome. No more corona, just a beautiful slight rosy tint. It’s more of a floody beam, but there are no artifacts at all.

I agree. I prefer the tint of my N219b over the others.
4000k N219b 9050 Lumintop Tool:

and sw45 9080:

My 4000k N219b 9080, and 9050, are less pink than my 4500k N219b 9080

I agree, the tint charts and my experience confirm that.

sw45 9080 from Clemence

Kitchen window overcast daylight 7pm in California, iPhone 8

sw 40 9050 from Illumn

No.
90CRI XP-G3 have much bigger R9 rate than most 70-80 CRI cree leds. But they look much more yellow/greener than xp-g2 3d for example.

Jon,

Id like to offer you another data point. Here is an LED I swapped into a Preon P1 (Run on high). Oslon 3000k 95 CRI. To my eyes this has both too much yellow and a tiny bit too much green. This LED will fit anywhere you have a Nichia 219X

Also the only cool white LED id consider, the Nichia E21A 6500k R9080

The first two images, at differing levels, show a (TIR) PT16 with 3 Nichia 219b sw45 9080 emitters from Clemence on the left vs. 6 Nichia 219b sw45 9050 (92+ CRI) in an Eagtac MX253LC reflector light.

The third photo (at lower output) has an Eagtac D25 AAA with the same small die Nichia 219b sw45 9050 emitter, this time using a TIR.
The differences in CRI, R9, and location relative to the BBL are major variables.
All photos were daylight balanced.

I agree with you, but you do not seem to have understood yet, that I am not talking about the Low CRI LEDs you are mentioning. The title of this thread is specific:
High CRI leds, comparing R9 values, XP-G3 N219c N218b XM-L2 XP-L”
Im specifically comparing these 10 high CRI LEDs:

these next 4 are the 219c from Clemence in 2700k, 3000k, 3500k, 4000k

That is awesome that you have the software to compare CRI. I look forward to learning more from you posts.
I agree that sample Oslon has very high R9 and appreciate your comment that it has Yellow/Green Tint. I feel the same way about the 3000k N219c I posted, even though it falls very close to the BBL it lands slightly above. Also true for the 4000k N219b in the Tools that I posted… High in R9 but more Yellow than Rosy Tint, and the Tint chart confirms they land slightly above the BBL
Do you also have the ability to chart the Tint of LEDs you test, showing where they land relative to the BBL?

Thanks! I really appreciate your photos comparing specific High CRI LEDs that I included in the 10 I am comparing. I get similar results with my sw45 9080 compared to my sw40 9050.
And I agree completely that CRI is a separate varible from Tint relative to the BBL, and CCT is also a separate variable.

All emitters are from Clemence
All are in PT16s except for the sm303 in a D4 quad
PT 16s set to medium, the D4 at default ~145 lumens
Left to right
219b sw45 9080
219b sw40 9050
219c sm403 9050
219c sm 303 9050
*The sm 303 was affected by the daylight balance setting used.