The FW3A a TLF BLF special elegant triple powerful flashlight

4929 posts / 0 new
Last post
ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 21 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 7916
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

This light doesn’t have a lot of thermal mass or a lot of surface area. If you want something which runs at 3000+ lumens for more than a few seconds without getting hot, this isn’t the light you’re looking for. It’s simply not big enough… so its turbo level is really a “burst only” mode, much like the D4-219c.

The default settings place the ceiling at the 8×7135 level though, which it can sustain quite a bit longer than full turbo. Last time I tested that, it looked like this:

Tom Tom
Online
Last seen: 14 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 820

Anodising is essential IMO, to improve emissivity. Bare or polished aluminium is not a good radiator.

See https://www.finishing.com/523/05.shtml

“Surface Treatment of Aluminum, Wernick and Pinner, 4th Edition, P.608, Ch. 9. Hard Anodizing:

The thermal conductivity of the anodic coating is between one tenth and one thirtieth of that of aluminum:

The emissivity of aluminium increases rapidly as the thickness of the layer is built up, increasing to 80% for a 10 um coating. A thick hard anodic coating is therefore well on the way to being a ‘black-body’ for heat dissipation, and there is very little advantage in dyeing it black as is sometimes done.”

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html

Aluminum Highly Polished 0.039 – 0.057
Aluminum Rough 0.07
Aluminum Anodized 0.77

preface
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 06/02/2018 - 09:22
Posts: 1

Put me down for one.

DB Custom
DB Custom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 01/13/2013 - 22:28
Posts: 18267
Location: Heart of Texas

Design changes AND personnel mixups, totally blows it for me.

Wanted a Fritz light , don’t want this mutated variation.

Count me out, unsubscribing…

Dale

CM2010
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 05:48
Posts: 431
Location: England

I’m down for 2 can you change it back to 1 please.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 28 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 8366
Location: Houston Texas

DB Custom wrote:
Design changes AND personnel mixups, totally blows it for me.

Wanted a Fritz light , don’t want this mutated variation.

Count me out, unsubscribing…


The minor design change of adding that long tapered section was done to improve unclipping the light from a piece of clothing. So that is a good design change. I’m not sure what other design changes you are referring to.

What do you mean by personnel mixups? Do you mean Miller leaving? Stuff like that does happen from time to time.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

spaceminions
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 15 min ago
Joined: 07/20/2015 - 14:18
Posts: 113
Location: Texas, USA

Firelight2 wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
The BLF-348 is bare steel. The FW3A is not steel, but it could potentially be bare aluminum depending on how things go.
I prefer natural anodize to bare aluminum.

I find bare aluminum transmits heat to my hand much faster than anodized aluminum. The result is hot-rodded high-lumen lights are much less practical. I have to ramp down earlier to avoid burning my hand.


Well in that case, why not reduce the threshold temperature and let it do that for you? Generally conductivity is thought to be a good thing; isn’t it?
For this kind of light, no.

Once heat gets to the outside of the light emissivity is a good thing. Conductivity, not so much. The interior of the light and the battery can all take much more heat than my hand can. All removing the anodizing on a light like this does is make it so I can’t run it in turbo as long. There’s really no upside.

I might need to put a d4 in a vacuum and see.

Card Carrying CRI baby https://b.thumbs.redditmedia.com/laMC7BGhREfYTRQjYe2I5FMjTF1IjrmM6bPLK9SKEXU.png

 

pinkpanda3310
pinkpanda3310's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 12/28/2013 - 08:45
Posts: 1623
Location: Perth

JasonWW wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
Design changes AND personnel mixups, totally blows it for me.

Wanted a Fritz light , don’t want this mutated variation.

Count me out, unsubscribing…


The minor design change of adding that long tapered section was done to improve unclipping the light from a piece of clothing. So that is a good design change. I’m not sure what other design changes you are referring to.

What do you mean by personnel mixups? Do you mean Miller leaving? Stuff like that does happen from time to time.


I agree it’s changed a lot since first conception but I’m still in.

Jason the tail end looks to have changed since the last revision. Both body and tail.

Tom Tom
Online
Last seen: 14 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 820

When I clip a torch into e.g. my pocket, I want it to stay clipped in. The last thing I want is a slippery shape that makes it all too easy to slide out again. Ideally it shouldn’t budge unless I lift the clip as I withdraw it. A good clip will even have a nub at the top that snugs over a typical denim jean seam, for added security.

djozz
djozz's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 47 sec ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 13336
Location: Amsterdam

I doubt that the decision for the tapered ends of the battery tube has anything to do with the working of the clip, just someone at Lumintop liked it better and probably thought it would sell better.

I can very well imagine people getting fed-up with the sudden random changes that chinese manufacturers add to BLF (TLF) designs, with the Q8 it drove me mad at times. Especially convincing them to change things back to our own ideas (even when they were clearly better) took a big effort. But in the end the lights are produced and sold at their risk, not ours, so they have the right to interfere with the design.

It is the way this process goes, and there is no other way to have a unique design made and sold for so little money.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

Tom Tom
Online
Last seen: 14 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 820

spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
The BLF-348 is bare steel. The FW3A is not steel, but it could potentially be bare aluminum depending on how things go.
I prefer natural anodize to bare aluminum.

I find bare aluminum transmits heat to my hand much faster than anodized aluminum. The result is hot-rodded high-lumen lights are much less practical. I have to ramp down earlier to avoid burning my hand.


Well in that case, why not reduce the threshold temperature and let it do that for you? Generally conductivity is thought to be a good thing; isn’t it?
For this kind of light, no.

Once heat gets to the outside of the light emissivity is a good thing. Conductivity, not so much. The interior of the light and the battery can all take much more heat than my hand can. All removing the anodizing on a light like this does is make it so I can’t run it in turbo as long. There’s really no upside.

I might need to put a d4 in a vacuum and see.

Well the D4 has that funky coating (what is it ?) which probably has good emissivity so should do OK in a vacuum. Whereas a raw or worse-still polished aluminium body might as well be inside a thermos-flask as regards dissipating heat by radiation.

So we are left with conduction into the hand (important, however blood temperature of 37C is the starting point before any significant cooling takes place) and convection into the air (insignificant, particularly when the torch is clutched in the hand).

Thermal mass is good for soaking up bursts, but this torch has very little, and the energy still has to be dissipated afterwards, by conduction, convection or radiation.

teacher
teacher's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 17 sec ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 6354
Location: NE & SW Alabama

DB Custom wrote:

Design changes AND personnel mixups, ….. (snip) ….
What specifically are you referring to when you say “personnel mixups”??

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

       Texas Lumens Flashlights  <>   M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$    ||||

         Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU                   Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???   wink   /\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal                                                       

pinkpanda3310
pinkpanda3310's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 12/28/2013 - 08:45
Posts: 1623
Location: Perth

Tom Tom wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
The BLF-348 is bare steel. The FW3A is not steel, but it could potentially be bare aluminum depending on how things go.
I prefer natural anodize to bare aluminum.

I find bare aluminum transmits heat to my hand much faster than anodized aluminum. The result is hot-rodded high-lumen lights are much less practical. I have to ramp down earlier to avoid burning my hand.


Well in that case, why not reduce the threshold temperature and let it do that for you? Generally conductivity is thought to be a good thing; isn’t it?
For this kind of light, no.

Once heat gets to the outside of the light emissivity is a good thing. Conductivity, not so much. The interior of the light and the battery can all take much more heat than my hand can. All removing the anodizing on a light like this does is make it so I can’t run it in turbo as long. There’s really no upside.

I might need to put a d4 in a vacuum and see.

Well the D4 has that funky coating (what is it ?) which probably has good emissivity so should do OK in a vacuum. Whereas a raw or worse-still polished aluminium body might as well be inside a thermos-flask as regards dissipating heat by radiation.

So we are left with conduction into the hand (important, however blood temperature of 37C is the starting point before any significant cooling takes place) and convection into the air (insignificant, particularly when the torch is clutched in the hand).

Thermal mass is good for soaking up bursts, but this torch has very little, and the energy still has to be dissipated afterwards, by conduction, convection or radiation.


I agree that the faster the heat gets to your hand the better the heat conductivity. Emitting heat from the host is different again and if my learning from blf is correct anodizing is a barrier to emitting heat. So I’m not sure how Firelight2 came to this conclusion.

However, this light IMO is designed to be more of an edc which means max lumens are not relevant.

Tom Tom
Online
Last seen: 14 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 820

pinkpanda3310 wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
The BLF-348 is bare steel. The FW3A is not steel, but it could potentially be bare aluminum depending on how things go.
I prefer natural anodize to bare aluminum.

I find bare aluminum transmits heat to my hand much faster than anodized aluminum. The result is hot-rodded high-lumen lights are much less practical. I have to ramp down earlier to avoid burning my hand.


Well in that case, why not reduce the threshold temperature and let it do that for you? Generally conductivity is thought to be a good thing; isn’t it?
For this kind of light, no.

Once heat gets to the outside of the light emissivity is a good thing. Conductivity, not so much. The interior of the light and the battery can all take much more heat than my hand can. All removing the anodizing on a light like this does is make it so I can’t run it in turbo as long. There’s really no upside.

I might need to put a d4 in a vacuum and see.

Well the D4 has that funky coating (what is it ?) which probably has good emissivity so should do OK in a vacuum. Whereas a raw or worse-still polished aluminium body might as well be inside a thermos-flask as regards dissipating heat by radiation.

So we are left with conduction into the hand (important, however blood temperature of 37C is the starting point before any significant cooling takes place) and convection into the air (insignificant, particularly when the torch is clutched in the hand).

Thermal mass is good for soaking up bursts, but this torch has very little, and the energy still has to be dissipated afterwards, by conduction, convection or radiation.


I agree that the faster the heat gets to your hand the better the heat conductivity. Emitting heat from the host is different again and if my learning from blf is correct anodizing is a barrier to emitting heat. So I’m not sure how Firelight2 came to this conclusion.

However, this light IMO is designed to be more of an edc which means max lumens are not relevant.

Agreed, this torch is about much more than headline lumens figures in short blasts. As an EDC it is very desirable, tiny dimensions for an 18650 capacity. I really like the output from multiple emitters behind TIR optics. The closest thing I have to it is my Astrolux S41 which is a big clumsy heavy dinosaur by comparison.

As TK said, sustained output is on a par with e.g. a Convoy S2 with x8 7135s, but this is so much smaller, and far more potent when needed.

Then there is the UI, and sophistication behind it, thermal management, etc. etc.

And the mechanical packaging, tail e-switch.

I am looking forward to it, however it turns out.

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 1517
Location: US

That’s impressive if it can sustain output the same as a S2 given it’s small size. I just hope the emitter board can be easily taken out so you can customize the emitters. So much potential here.

KawiBoy1428
KawiBoy1428's picture
Online
Last seen: 10 min 8 sec ago
Joined: 04/11/2014 - 18:05
Posts: 3031
Location: The Motor City

DB Custom wrote:
Design changes AND personnel mixups, totally blows it for me.

Wanted a Fritz light , don’t want this mutated variation.

Count me out, unsubscribing…

Fritz should of stuck to his guns, it was HIS concept/ design, and then he allowed it to get all BLF’d up! Big Smile Sure is pocket fondling friendly and pretty now… a real Lady light it is….very elegant… Thumbs Up

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

Tom Tom
Online
Last seen: 14 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 820
SKV89 wrote:
That’s impressive if it can sustain output the same as a S2 given it’s small size. I just hope the emitter board can be easily taken out so you can customize the emitters. So much potential here.

Please don’t mis-understand, this torch is thermally limited, thems the laws of physics. TK showed at http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1329355#comment-1329355 that it has to ramp down after a few minutes, otherwise it would be toast. Subtle firmware.

The point is that it does do so. Unlike most other things.

Otherwise you would have to carry around something like a C8, which is a very different beast.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 28 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 8366
Location: Houston Texas

djozz wrote:
I doubt that the decision for the tapered ends of the battery tube has anything to do with the working of the clip, just someone at Lumintop liked it better and probably thought it would sell better.

You make it sound like I’m guessing or making info up. No, the point of the tapered tube was a large discussion here a while back and it was changed to prevent snagging on clothing when removed. I thought it was ToyKeeper that confirmed this, but I can’t find her qoute. It might have been someone else on the Team that explained this. Does anyone remember who?

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70.2, 26350 cells (4,100 lumen!), Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

10 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices 

Review Jaxmnve M1 Stainless 10180 Keychain light

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 21 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 7916
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

If I recall correctly, people wanted the tail end to have a taper too, so one was added.

I still think the head-end taper is longer than what would be ideal, making it look sort of like a bell, but it is at least comfortable to hold and clip/unclip.

The surface finish isn’t final; it’s still being negotiated.

I think those are the only visible changes from the original design… and not many seemed to mind earlier when the latest iteration’s render (below) was posted. Maybe it’s just that yesterday’s photos were bad?

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 21 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 7916
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

OTOH, what I’d really like is if it came in dark anodized purple. Big Smile

CRX
CRX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 min 40 sec ago
Joined: 04/02/2013 - 15:27
Posts: 2778
Location: Scotland

Ti ano purple Smile
Yeah I would prefer both tapers to be the same shorter lengths.

Tom Tom
Online
Last seen: 14 min 54 sec ago
Joined: 09/10/2017 - 08:30
Posts: 820
ToyKeeper wrote:
OTOH, what I’d really like is if it came in dark anodized purple. Big Smile

Prettier in Pink Wink

And without the bell-end.

toddcshoe
toddcshoe's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 53 min ago
Joined: 01/24/2018 - 23:49
Posts: 985
Location: Foley, MO

I like the taper from the head to body. Looks easy to get out of your pocket quickly. If it was a steeper gradient I could see it getting held up on the top of the pocket on any pair of pants/jeans. The steeper taper near the tail cap would also be nice for not slipping out of your hand or from in between your fingers if held like a cigar or something. I have fairly big hands so it’s not always easy for me to take a full grip on a smaller light without blocking part of the lens or being too far behind the tail cap to operate the button. Hence the cigar hold. Raw, Clear ano, gray ano, bead blasted, tumbled, don’t matter to me. I just like it.

teacher
teacher's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 17 sec ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 6354
Location: NE & SW Alabama

+1 Thumbs Up . Well said toddcshoe… you summed it up nicely!!! Wink

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

       Texas Lumens Flashlights  <>   M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$    ||||

         Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU                   Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???   wink   /\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal                                                       

teacher
teacher's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 17 sec ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 6354
Location: NE & SW Alabama

Perfect….. Thumbs Up . As long as Fritz is good with it , it looks like a winner. Wink
.

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

       Texas Lumens Flashlights  <>   M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$    ||||

         Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU                   Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???   wink   /\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal                                                       

ChibiM
ChibiM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 43 min ago
Joined: 05/09/2011 - 10:25
Posts: 5820
Location: Holland/Japan

How about a limited run of titanium, mokume, copper or whatever..... 

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 21 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 7916
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

If I understand correctly, if the FW3A sells well, there may later be FW3B, FW3C, and/or FW3T for brass, copper, and titanium.

teacher
teacher's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 17 sec ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 6354
Location: NE & SW Alabama

ToyKeeper wrote:
If I understand correctly, if the FW3A sells well, there may later be FW3B, FW3C, and/or FW3T for brass, copper, and titanium.
Hopefully that will happen…. Thumbs Up Titanium would sure color nicely!!! Smile

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

       Texas Lumens Flashlights  <>   M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$    ||||

         Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU                   Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???   wink   /\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal                                                       

fritz15
fritz15's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 01/27/2012 - 13:32
Posts: 307
Location: Denmark

To put an end to the tapered body discussion Wink

The reasoning behind it is indeed to make it easier to use the clip. Having the light I built and the prototype made by LT I can directly compare those two. And the clip of the version with the tapered body is definitely nicer to use compared to the sharp edges. Clipping it in the pocket is much smoother – or rather removing the clipped in light is much smoother with the tapered edge.

Additionally, I can confirm it is still my design. That’s the reason why the the chamfers have a different angle rather than the same Big Smile I like the design like it is now but I am sorry that those design changes ruined the light for some people!

To summarise, putting angles to the body had a practical reason and since it did (in our opinion) not take away from the overall design we didn’t see a reason not to do it.

Finally, I want to add that I think the pictures we currently have from this prototype are a little unflattering and do not represent the design that well. For example this picture of the first prototype looks fairly weird and makes the tailcap look huge while this picture from toykeeper the proportions much nicer and makes the light look much better. So don’t worry too much for now!

teacher
teacher's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 17 sec ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 6354
Location: NE & SW Alabama

fritz15 wrote:

To put an end to the tapered body discussion Wink

The reasoning behind it is indeed to make it easier to use the clip. Having the light I built and the prototype made by LT I can directly compare those two. And the clip of the version with the tapered body is definitely nicer to use compared to the sharp edges. Clipping it in the pocket is much smoother – or rather removing the clipped in light is much smoother with the tapered edge.

Additionally, I can confirm it is still my design. That’s the reason why the the chamfers have a different angle rather than the same Big Smile I like the design like it is now but I am sorry that those design changes ruined the light for some people!

To summarise, putting angles to the body had a practical reason and since it did (in our opinion) not take away from the overall design we didn’t see a reason not to do it.

Yes & Amen!! Thumbs Up .. Thank you sir for putting an end to the speculation & speculative discussion…. Thumbs Up
And a nice design it is too!!! Smile

Well done Fritz……. Beer

      You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load. / Paul "Bear" Bryant ~/~\~ "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"

       Texas Lumens Flashlights  <>   M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$    ||||

         Rudeness Level /\ mΩ /\ {width:70%} /\ LightWiki /\ LED Tint Chart /\ LED Tint Picture /\ Xlamp size chart /\ BatteryU                   Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???   wink   /\ TheOriginal /\ TAB /\ LightSearch /\ BatterySearch /\ 14500's /\ DiCal                                                       

Pages