The FW3A a TLF BLF special elegant triple powerful flashlight

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JasonWW
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jon_slider wrote:
flashycali wrote:
I like the second one better, smooth center reduced section looks clean.
good cause thats the FW3A, this thread is about.

I think you missed the point. Those people were saying they prefer the smooth Center section over a knurled center section. It didn’t have anything to do with the model of light.

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flashycali
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teacher wrote:
flashycali wrote:
I like the second one better, smooth center reduced section looks clean.
+1.. Agreed. Thumbs Up The longer front taper looks better too IMO. YMMV…. Wink

Good Taste! SmileThumbs Up

jon_slider wrote:
flashycali wrote:
I like the second one better, smooth center reduced section looks clean.
good cause thats the FW3A, this thread is about.

the top light is a Titanium HDS Ra Clicky that sold a couple of years ago for $650, over 15x the cost of the FW3A.

HDS uses CR123/16340 cells, that have about 1/5 the capacity of the 18350 in the FW3A, which is also over 15x brighter than the HDS Ra Clicky

as you can read below, the HDS and the FW3A are about the same size:

ToyKeeper wrote:
Yes, it is about the same size as some older CR123-based lights. I see 94.0 × 25.4 mm listed for the HDS Rotary CR123, and the FW3A is 94.8 × 25.5 mm. So almost identical size, but it uses 1×18650 instead of 1xCR123. Much greater battery capacity and much higher maximum brightness.

Ah so that’s good then Silly

JasonWW wrote:
jon_slider wrote:
flashycali wrote:
I like the second one better, smooth center reduced section looks clean.
good cause thats the FW3A, this thread is about.
I think you missed the point. Those people were saying they prefer the smooth Center section over a knurled center section. It didn’t have anything to do with the model of light.
Thumbs Up
ToyKeeper
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My main concern with the LH351D is that it’s so floody. It would make the FW3A even more floody than a D4-219, and not useful at all for distance. My favorite option is XP-L HI, because it performs very well in general and gets closest to the beam type of an average EDC-style light.

  • FW3A LH351D: ~2 cd / lm? (Agro estimates ~1.5)
  • D4 219c: 3.2 cd / lm
  • D4 XP-G2: 4.1 cd / lm
  • D4 XP-L HI: 4.7 cd / lm
  • FW3A XP-L HI: ~4.5 cd / lm?
  • Common EDC lights: 5 to 10 cd / lm

And, as was hashed out at length in another thread, CRI is not always the top priority. I’m also not sure if Lumintop can actually get the LH351D. The poll determines what we ask Lumintop for, not necessarily what they’ll agree to.

Nichia 219c makes a nice beam, but it’s so hot… it might need 28-gauge wires or something to avoid damaging itself on turbo.

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Would the Luxeon V or the SST-20/40 fit into the FW3A and if so, how would these LEDs compare to the XP-L Hi?

teacher
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flashycali wrote:
teacher wrote:
flashycali wrote:
I like the second one better, smooth center reduced section looks clean.
+1.. Agreed. Thumbs Up The longer front taper looks better too IMO. YMMV…. Wink
Good Taste! SmileThumbs Up
Amen my friend, you too! Thumbs Up

I’ve heard it said, ‘brilliant minds think alike’……. Big Smile . Big Smile . Beer

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teacher
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jon_slider wrote:

the top light is a Titanium HDS Ra Clicky that sold a couple of years ago for $650, over 15x the cost of the FW3A.

HDS uses CR123/16340 cells, that have about 1/5 the capacity of the 18350 (18650) in the FW3A, which is also over 15x brighter than the HDS Ra C18650

Shocked . Facepalm . Shocked …. My gosh, $650!!!

HDS sure thought a lot of that light…… Facepalm

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ToyKeeper wrote:
My main concern with the LH351D is that it’s so floody. It would make the FW3A even more floody than a D4-219, and not useful at all for distance. My favorite option is XP-L HI, because it performs very well in general and gets closest to the beam type of an average EDC-style light.

I really like xp-l HI also. They have great performance and efficiency. They have a nice clean beam when behind a carclo optic unlike the non HI variety. I expecially like something on or below the black body line like a 5A1 tint.

jon_slider
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JasonWW wrote:
I think you missed the point. Those people were saying they prefer the smooth Center section over a knurled center section. It didn’t have anything to do with the model of light.

I think you might be right
I should have been less presumptuous

here is what I had in mind
I was responding to comments about the size of the FW3A being similar to the HDS. I think that is a very valid comparison not only in terms of dimensions, and also in terms of some of the head and tail proportions, knurling, and use of tapers to create the waistline.

ToyKeeper wrote:
If I understand correctly, if the FW3A sells well, there may later be FW3B, FW3C, and/or FW3T for brass, copper, and titanium.

I think a Titanium FW3T would be immensely popular. It prompted my search for the Titanium HDS image. The Ti Ra is an HDS Legacy Model.. hence I was punning that it would add a “Legendary” feel to use a knurled waistline, that nobody wants.. Smile

(The Legend of HDS, The Light That Gets You Home)

speaking of knurling on the FW3A, I think the tail should be knurled more fully, not leave the smooth part before the switch so wide. I want to feel knurling near the edge, so I can tell the difference between the smooth head and a coarse tail, by feel, in the dark, upside down, or standing on my head…

The Ti Ra that went for $650 2 years ago, was one of 75 made in 2009, I dont know the original cost. I believe the max lumens was 170, not sure if they were High CRI

How awesome would it be to get a Ti FW3 in 2019, at budgetforum prices, And in High CRI?;-)

Which brings me to, the XP-G3 and other LED options being considered for the FW3A

Im a maukka groupie, whatever he says is good, I generally follow

even though he does not approve of the XP-G3, I bought a light with that LED, twice. Both times I hate the Green Rainbow Tint. I really do not recommend that LED. I buy the lights for other reasons, despite the LED. It would be one of the Last LEDs I would consider, as a High CRI snob.

We just witnessed Clemence pull a bunch of sw45 9080 out of Nichias final stock.. I wonder if someone could piggyback an order for the FW3T run?

I mean really, a Titanium FW3T with an sw45 9080, how bad could that be? Its no Legacy HDS but, better than a poke with a sharp stick, no?

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I agree with TK.

My vote is for XPL HI for the FW3A. Preferably in a nice neutral tint like 5D.

I wouldn’t be against Lumintop making different versions for people with other tastes though. Perhaps an XPG2 version for those who want the cheapest possible light. And maybe a 219C version for high-CRI fans.

I’m not impressed with the LH351D. Way too floody.

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XPL HI for me as well. Is there an official poll?

Agro
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I’m a big fan of LH351D.
I think it would be a superb choice for those of us who want pure flooders.
For more general-purpose uses – it just doesn’t look like a good option in optic this small.
If this light is to be produced with one LED option – I recommend against LH351D.

Shaving the LED would largely fix that, at the cost of reduced efficiency (but still quite good). The light would definitely still be a flooder, but useful to more people.
And mass-shaving LEDs doesn’t seem to be a costly operation. Shaved LH351D should cost less than stock XP-L HI.

teacher
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ToyKeeper wrote:

My main concern with the LH351D is that it’s so floody. It would make the FW3A even more floody than a D4-219, and not useful at all for distance. My favorite option is XP-L HI, because it performs very well in general and gets closest to the beam type of an average EDC-style light.
  • FW3A LH351D: ~2 cd / lm? (Agro estimates ~1.5)
  • D4 219c: 3.2 cd / lm
  • D4 XP-G2: 4.1 cd / lm
  • D4 XP-L HI: 4.7 cd / lm
  • FW3A XP-L HI: ~4.5 cd / lm?
  • Common EDC lights: 5 to 10 cd / lm

And, as was hashed out at length in another thread, CRI is not always the top priority. I’m also not sure if Lumintop can actually get the LH351D. The poll determines what we ask Lumintop for, not necessarily what they’ll agree to.

Nichia 219c makes a nice beam, but it’s so hot… it might need 28-gauge wires or something to avoid damaging itself on turbo.

+1 Thumbs Up It does indeed look like the XPL HI is the best all around choice looking at the chart TK listed. (see link below)
ToyKeeper wrote:
More generally, I’m trying to fill in a comparison table accurately. Any corrections or extra info would be helpful.

.
.
http://toykeeper.net/torches/fw3a/emitter-poll.html

FW3A Emitter Type

Please put your forum username in the “email” box. If there is a tie, it may be broken by removing anonymous votes.
…………………………..Price Lumens Throwiness CRI Beam Heat

……….Cree XP-L HI $36 3300……….. *****…… 70+ *****… xx
………….Cree XP-G3 $30 3000……….. **……….. 70+ **……… xxxx
………….Cree XP-G2 $30 2200……….. ***……… 70+ ***……. xx
…………Nichia 219c $30 2600……….. **……….. 90+ ****….. xxxxx
Samsung LH351D $30 3000?……… *…………. 90+ ****….. xxx

(x = )

For price and heat, lower values are better. For everything else, higher values are better.

Throwiness is a rough measure of candelas per lumen. It’s the overall beam shape. Even the throwiest option is not a thrower, because compact triples are floody by nature.

“Beam” is the overall beam quality, like smoothness and color consistency.

More peppers makes thermal management harder, reduces the sustainable brightness after step-down, and increases risk of damaging the emitters on turbo.

Worst part about each:
XP-L HI: Costs more.
XP-G3: Strongest “Cree Rainbow” effect: angle-based tint shift, green around hotspot.
XP-G2: Lowest output. Old.
219c: Most heat, lowest sustainable output, highest chance of damaging itself on turbo.
LH351D: Super floody. May be a bit green at low levels.

Values only indicate approximate performance in a Carclo 10511 optic using a FET for direct drive on 1×18650. These have not been directly tested in the FW3A host, so this data is more of an educated guess than a measurement.

Votes will be counting with the Schulze Condorcet method.
……….
………..

@TK…..
Is this something we are supposed to be voting on (as mentioned above) or has that already taken place??

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Zulumoose
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Quote:
Preferably in a nice neutral tint like 5D

I just looked that up, 5D is just below 4000K?
I suspect most people would consider that quite warm, to me it would look muddy orange, 4C is too warm for me, 3D just about perfect.
Mood lighting has its place, but this is an EDC light, built for practical function.
I know there will be differing opinions and perceptions, but if I am not mistaken several polls and discussions have shown 5000 is around the middle of what the BLF majority want in an EDC. A6 neutral and Q8 are both around that mark I believe, and look great.

Beam me up!

cabfrank
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I’m worried that the Samsungs will make this an indoor light only, and not the EDC we are hoping for.
I’d pay the extra $6 for more throw.

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The poll is not active yet. I’m waiting until TLF is back online so everyone can participate. It’ll be run on the same site I used for the muggle mode poll, where people rank their preferences in order.

Until then, I’ve been trying to make sure the comparison table is accurate, so I put a preview online to get feedback.

teacher
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ToyKeeper wrote:
The poll is not active yet. I’m waiting until TLF is back online so everyone can participate. It’ll be run on the same site I used for the muggle mode poll, where people rank their preferences in order.

Until then, I’ve been trying to make sure the comparison table is accurate, so I put a preview online to get feedback.

OK… thank you for that info TK… Thumbs Up

(I could not get your “comparison table” to post correctly above… so I had to improvise. Facepalm ) . Big Smile

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Agro
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I believe LH351D 70+ deserves to be listed just like CRI 90+. Frankly, I have no idea why with this particular emitter so few people are interested in lower CRIs…

teacher
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Zulumoose wrote:
Quote:
Preferably in a nice neutral tint like 5D

I just looked that up, 5D is just below 4000K?
I suspect most people would consider that quite warm, to me it would look muddy orange, 4C is too warm for me, 3D just about perfect.
Mood lighting has its place, but this is an EDC light, built for practical function.
I know there will be differing opinions and perceptions, but if I am not mistaken several polls and discussions have shown 5000 is around the middle of what the BLF majority want in an EDC. A6 neutral and Q8 are both around that mark I believe, and look great.

I totally agree & IIRC your statements are correct also about pteferences. I am hoping for at least 5000K Zulumoose. A bit more is fine too…. but at least 5000K. Hopefully below the BBL too.

I am good with 2D or 3D. 3A is perfect.
.
EDIT: @Zulumoose…. Here is one of the Polls you mentioned.

cabfrank wrote:
I’m worried that the Samsungs will make this an indoor light only, and not the EDC we are hoping for.
I’d pay the extra $6 for more throw.
Amen!!! Thumbs Up

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joechina
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Xpl Hi with BELOW 5000K, the Q8 is somtimes too cold.

(I hope I can replace it to use Nichias 219B 4000K)

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Quote:

………………………..Price Lumens Throwiness CRI Beam Heat

……….Cree XP-L HI $36 3300……….. *****…… 70+ *****… xx
………….Cree XP-G3 $30 3000……….. **……….. 70+ **……… xxxx
………….Cree XP-G2 $30 2200……….. ***……… 70+ ***……. xx
…………Nichia 219c $30 2600……….. **……….. 90+ ****….. xxxxx
Samsung LH351D $30 3000?……… *…………. 90+ ****….. xxx

Hmm. I would like to have a throwy “XP-L Hi” and a floody “LH351D” version of this light..

Zulumoose
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Considering the intention is to have TIR optics, how much difference will the “throwiness” of the LED actually make?
Won’t the lens produce a similar result regardless?
Are there different triple TIR optics out there that would allow for different beam patterns, like with a single emitter TIR?

Beam me up!

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I would like to see xpl-hi’s in the 4000k range. But in any case whatever in ends up with,if its not too late, please put me down for 2. Thank you for everyone working on this! Steve
Agro
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Zulumoose wrote:
Considering the intention is to have TIR optics, how much difference will the “throwiness” of the LED actually make?

Much. Just like with any other optics.

Zulumoose wrote:
Are there different triple TIR optics out there that would allow for different beam patterns, like with a single emitter TIR?

Yes, with Carclo you can choose smooth or frosted finish. And cups that shape the beam to different beams.
Though really the only options that make sense is the narrowest cups with clear or frosted.

I’m aware of 1 other 3-up 20 mm lens, it’s from Kaidomain. I think it’s clear only and has slightly different hole spacing.

Jtm94
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If the throw of the Samsung LEDs were an issue could we not just as for the narrow clear optic instead of the narrow frosted? I’m putting the floodiest optic I can find it it regardless.

Agro
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Jtm94 wrote:
If the throw of the Samsung LEDs were an issue could we not just as for the narrow clear optic instead of the narrow frosted? I’m putting the floodiest optic I can find it it regardless.

Very, very floody with clear lens too.

Dedoming the LED is the only thing that can make it “floody” without adjectives in this lens size.

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Another vote for xpl-hi (5D)

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XP-L HI 5D or the Samsung is my choice. If they were to do multiple, I think XP-L HI 5D and 219C 5000K would cover a lot of peoples preferences. I’m interested in seeing the poll results (once the poll is created).

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Nichia 219c makes a nice beam, but it’s so hot… it might need 28-gauge wires or something to avoid damaging itself on turbo.

I used doubled 20ga wires to get more current through my 219C triple. This didn’t hurt the emitters. It does have more of a heatsink than the FW3A will, but the FW3A will thermal throttle sooner.

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My preference would be XP-L HI in warm white.  :THUMBS-UP:

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Eraursls1984 wrote:
XP-L HI 5D or the Samsung is my choice.

Right there with you. I actually have a Samsung 4000k and it is absolutely even tinted, large hot spotted and a wall of light. I love this Convoy S2 with Samsung triple mod. I also have a 5000k samsung triple.

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