Acebeam x70

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hehaw77
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Acebeam x70

I’m surprised that people mention this thing but there is no forum topic around it. So here it is.

For those of you that don’t know what this is its Acebeams’ newest arrival “yet to be released” its a bit of a monster. It will produce a 40K lumen max output.

Below is a link to you youtube video. I know for a lot of people this won’t be at the top of their must have list but for me it is…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZOKcmjGams

It has active cooling etc. with fans… interesting… Big Smile

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mortuus
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OFc there is a thread of this beast Wink search is your friend.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59386

...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

hehaw77
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mortuus wrote:
OFc there is a thread of this beast Wink search is your friend.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59386

hmm.. gee no wonder I didn’t find it its from March…

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hehaw77
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Smile I’ll probably be one of the first to know… I just hope they resolve any issues they might be having…

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JasonWW
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We talk about it here in my thread on actively cooled lights as well.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58991

I mentioned the X9R as it USED to be actively cooled, but it’s a regular light now.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

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hehaw77
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yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….

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JasonWW
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hehaw77 wrote:
yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….

No its not. It’s negligible.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

hehaw77
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JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….
No its not. It’s negligible.

3 fans? not one

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JasonWW
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hehaw77 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….
No its not. It’s negligible.

3 fans? not one


A typical 40mm fan uses roughly 1.2 watts. So for 3 of them, let’s say 5 watts total. When you add that 5 watts to a light already drawing 250 to 300 watts, the fans amp draw is under 2% which I consider negligible.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

hehaw77
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JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….
No its not. It’s negligible.

3 fans? not one


A typical 40mm fan uses roughly 1.2 watts. So for 3 of them, let’s say 5 watts total. When you add that 5 watts to a light already drawing 250 to 300 watts, the fans amp draw is under 2% which I consider negligible.

That depends on the batteries they will be using. Most lights can’t maintain their turbo for very long and that’s where it will make a difference

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BlueSwordM
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Yes, but the fans will not run if the light reaches a certain temperature.

And as JasonWW said, it is just negligible at 2%.

In fact, keeping the LEDs cooler using active cooling will probably be saving a lot more than 5W.

TLDR: Active cooling at such high power levels can actually reduce power consumption.

JasonWW
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hehaw77 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….
No its not. It’s negligible.

3 fans? not one


A typical 40mm fan uses roughly 1.2 watts. So for 3 of them, let’s say 5 watts total. When you add that 5 watts to a light already drawing 250 to 300 watts, the fans amp draw is under 2% which I consider negligible.

That depends on the batteries they will be using. Most lights can’t maintain their turbo for very long and that’s where it will make a difference

It will need to use batteries capable of a little over 10A each.

The fans only need to run above a certain temperature (maybe only above 60°C?). Once Turbo is changed to High for instance the fans may run less or cycle to prevent over heating. The PowerTac X10000 Destroyer only has a single fan (it might be bigger than 40mm, though) and it can maintain 10k lumen just by cycling on and off. This greatly reduces the fans power consumption. The X70 probably won’t even need to use the fans unless over 7k lumen and after several minutes.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

JasonWW
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BlueSwordM wrote:

In fact, keeping the LEDs cooler using active cooling will probably be saving a lot more than 5W.

TLDR: Active cooling at such high power levels can actually reduce power consumption.


I don’t think active cooling reduces power consumption. It very slightly increases it.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

BlueSwordM
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No, I meant that if the light is regulated at a certain brightness level, active cooling will decrease power consumption compared to no active cooling due to the fact that the forward voltage of an LED going up as it heats up. So active cooling will actually decrease the power usage by maybe 10-15W if done right.

hehaw77
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JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:
yeah it used to be… but that’s a major battery drain….
No its not. It’s negligible.

3 fans? not one


A typical 40mm fan uses roughly 1.2 watts. So for 3 of them, let’s say 5 watts total. When you add that 5 watts to a light already drawing 250 to 300 watts, the fans amp draw is under 2% which I consider negligible.

That depends on the batteries they will be using. Most lights can’t maintain their turbo for very long and that’s where it will make a difference

It will need to use batteries capable of a little over 10A each.

The fans only need to run above a certain temperature (maybe only above 60°C?). Once Turbo is changed to High for instance the fans may run less or cycle to prevent over heating. The PowerTac X10000 Destroyer only has a single fan (it might be bigger than 40mm, though) and it can maintain 10k lumen just by cycling on and off. This greatly reduces the fans power consumption. The X70 probably won’t even need to use the fans unless over 7k lumen and after several minutes.

Hmm.. maybe this whole fan thing is what’s holding this light up. Especially since I’ve been hearing that the x70 is suppose to keep its max turbo for 1/2 hr just rumors for now…

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JasonWW
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BlueSwordM wrote:
No, I meant that if the light is regulated at a certain brightness level, active cooling will decrease power consumption compared to no active cooling due to the fact that the forward voltage of an LED going up as it heats up. So active cooling will actually decrease the power usage by maybe 10-15W if done right.

I think I understand what you’re saying, but you might be saying it in a way that’s a little confusing to me.

Flashlights are not capable of monitoring there output in lumens. To do that would require some type of optical feedback loop which isn’t practical at all. So all the driver can know is how much amperage is going to the emitters. It’s up to the designers and engineers to use enough amperage to generate the amount of lumens they want.

I don’t think the designers and engineers have to take into consideration the changes in the forward voltage as the light heats up. If they measure the output using ANSI-FL1 standards, then they measure at 30 seconds.

So I assume there’s no power usage decrease due to the active cooling. This is a bit beyond my knowledge, though. Maybe someone like Lexel or DEL (a driver designer) could go into more details.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

JasonWW
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hehaw77 wrote:

Hmm.. maybe this whole fan thing is what’s holding this light up. Especially since I’ve been hearing that the x70 is suppose to keep its max turbo for 1/2 hr. Just rumors for now…

I’m sure it is. It held up the X9R for a very long time until they scrapped the active cooling. It adds a tremendous amount of complication plus Olight and Acebeam also have to worty about their warranties. I know Olight has 5 years warranty, but I’m not sure about Acebeam. I assume it’s pretty long, though. It’s hard to keep the fans working well in dusty, dirty or wet environments for the duration of the warranty period.

I don’t know if the X70 can do 40k lumen for 30 minutes, but I did crunch some numbers and the batteries seem capable of handling it. I think the triple fans might be able to just barely handle the heat load. I think it’s physically possible it can do that, but can Acebeam build it to do that? We will have to wait and see.

Even if it can only sustain 30k or even 20k lumen that would be record breaking. Right now 10k lumen is the record and I’m not even positive that light is doing 10k. It has not been tested. It’s rated at 10k.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

BlueSwordM
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Hmm.

Doubt it could physically run 40k lumens for 30 min.

Well, being a 40000 lumen light and having 12x XHP70.2s, it must be pushing out about 3400 lumens per XHP70.2.

Knowing that an XHP70.2 consumes 22W at that power level, it means that the light is consuming at least 270W of power at max brightness.

Even if you were using NCR18650GA and not taking into account internal resistance, you would have at max a battery capacity of 100Wh. Meaning at 40k lumens, you would have a max, down to 2.5V, runtimes would be a max of 20 mins, not 30 mins. That would be even less down to 3V and counting internal resistance, and that the cells are probably 30Qs and VTC6s, not 3500mAh GAs.

It is physically impossible to get 30 mins even with an 8 cell battery pack at 40000 lumens. Maybe 30000 lumens, but not more.

JasonWW
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Hmm.

Doubt it could physically run 40k lumens for 30 min.

Well, being a 40000 lumen light and having 12x XHP70.2s, it must be pushing out about 3400 lumens per XHP70.2.

Knowing that an XHP70.2 consumes 22W at that power level, it means that the light is consuming at least 270W of power at max brightness.

Even if you were using NCR18650GA and not taking into account internal resistance, you would have at max a battery capacity of 100Wh. Meaning at 40k lumens, you would have a max, down to 2.5V, runtimes would be a max of 20 mins, not 30 mins. That would be even less down to 3V and counting internal resistance, and that the cells are probably 30Qs and VTC6s, not 3500mAh GAs.

It is physically impossible to get 30 mins even with an 8 cell battery pack at 40000 lumens. Maybe 30000 lumens, but not more.


It would need 30Q’s not GA’s.

JasonWW wrote:
Sustained 40k lumens doesn’t sound possible, does it? The PowerTac 10k seems to cycle it’s single fan. So if the X70 has an efficient heatsink design with each fan cooling 1/3 of the heatsink area, the fans run continuously and power output drops with battery voltage, then maybe it is possible.

40k lumen for 30 minutes is quite a record. Even if output starts to slowly decline. I have no idea what driver design they might be using.

40,000 ÷ 12 = 3,333 lumen per emitter. That’s roughly 3.5A per emitter. 42 amps at the 6 volt level or 21 amps at 12 volt level.

21 amps at 13 to 14 actual volts would be 273-294 watts.

As far as the batteries, it’s using 8 × 18650. If the cells were 4S2P (like the Imalent DX80) that would require at least 10.5A per cell. Good cells like 30Q should handle that amperage and temperature it seems (internal battery temp due to the heavy discharge, not heat from the head).

So maybe it is possible. I was not expecting 3 fans. That could be the key to maintaining the high output. Even if your down to 30k lumen when the LVP kicks in at 30 minutes it’s still a remarkable feat.

I was saying it is possible to run in turbo for 30 minutes. I don’t think it will maintain the 40k, though. As voltage drops, the output would drop.

My Convoy L6 thread with XHP70.2, Texas Avenger FET driver, Narsil v1.2 ramping firmware (old), lighted side switch and cut down SMO reflector. Lots of amp draws on stock driver as well. 

My Supfire L5-S thread with XHP70, Texas Avenger FET driver, NarsilM v1.0 ramping firmware and lighted side switch. My mini L6! 

9 NarsilM user videos for BLF Q8, GT, GT Mini and ROT66

Texas_Ace BLF Calibrated Lumen tube

Maukka Calibration Lights for DIY Lumen Measuring Devices

hehaw77
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JasonWW wrote:
hehaw77 wrote:

Hmm.. maybe this whole fan thing is what’s holding this light up. Especially since I’ve been hearing that the x70 is suppose to keep its max turbo for 1/2 hr. Just rumors for now…

I’m sure it is. It held up the X9R for a very long time until they scrapped the active cooling. It adds a tremendous amount of complication plus Olight and Acebeam also have to worty about their warranties. I know Olight has 5 years warranty, but I’m not sure about Acebeam. I assume it’s pretty long, though. It’s hard to keep the fans working well in dusty, dirty or wet environments for the duration of the warranty period.

I don’t know if the X70 can do 40k lumen for 30 minutes, but I did crunch some numbers and the batteries seem capable of handling it. I think the triple fans might be able to just barely handle the heat liad. I think it’s physically possible it can do that, but can Acebeam build it to do that? We will have to wait and see.

Even if it can only sustain 30k or even 20k lumen that would be record breaking. Right now 10k lumen is the record and I’m not even positive that light is doing 10k. It has not been tested. It’s rated at 10k.

Hmm.. nice points… I hope they pull it off; groundbreaking if they do..

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hehaw77
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Hmm.

Doubt it could physically run 40k lumens for 30 min.

Well, being a 40000 lumen light and having 12x XHP70.2s, it must be pushing out about 3400 lumens per XHP70.2.

Knowing that an XHP70.2 consumes 22W at that power level, it means that the light is consuming at least 270W of power at max brightness.

Even if you were using NCR18650GA and not taking into account internal resistance, you would have at max a battery capacity of 100Wh. Meaning at 40k lumens, you would have a max, down to 2.5V, runtimes would be a max of 20 mins, not 30 mins. That would be even less down to 3V and counting internal resistance, and that the cells are probably 30Qs and VTC6s, not 3500mAh GAs.

It is physically impossible to get 30 mins even with an 8 cell battery pack at 40000 lumens. Maybe 30000 lumens, but not more.

Hmm you missed the led in the middle…

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BlueSwordM
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I know.

But it would not matter much anyways.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
No, I meant that if the light is regulated at a certain brightness level, active cooling will decrease power consumption compared to no active cooling due to the fact that the forward voltage of an LED going up as it heats up. So active cooling will actually decrease the power usage by maybe 10-15W if done right.

Vf goes down as the LED heats up.

BlueSwordM
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Wut.

Thank you. I always thought it was the opposite, since in my LED builds, using my constant current supply, as my LEDs heated up, so the voltage went up.

Is there a reason for this?

maukka
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Never seen that happen. Did you measure with a DMM from the LED wires instead of trusting the PSU?

hehaw77
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Wut.

Thank you. I always thought it was the opposite, since in my LED builds, using my constant current supply, as my LEDs heated up, so the voltage went up.

Is there a reason for this?

me to I thought the same thing

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maukka
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Another test with another LED where I turn the heatsink fan on at 10 minutes.

hehaw77
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maukka wrote:
Another test with another LED where I turn the heatsink fan on at 10 minutes.

!https://i.imgur.com/gTSbM4j.jpg!

Well this one makes sense…

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Pezo
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You can even use diodes (which LEDs are of course) as temperature sensors, because the relationship between temperature and forward voltage is pretty linear (for Si diodes at least, don’t know about LEDs).

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That’s true, for example the Nichia 144A is very linear from 20°C upwards. Use a very small current not to heat up the LED itself much and it can be used to estimate ambient temperature.

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The exact reason “why” is pretty much a entire undergrad class in silicon junctions. Needless to say it involves quantum effects with the bandgap. I guess an ELI5 answer would be that the increased thermal energy can give lower voltage electrons a push across the bandgap? That is probably wrong on several levels though.

The effects of a falling Vf are huge though. It is why LEDs need current regulated supplies. Otherwise you get a thermal runaway and the LED destroys itself.

Anything with a negative temperature coefficient will need regulated current. Very few things have negative coefficients and voltage regulation is sufficient.

On a related note I’m always kind of amazed that direct drive FET lights work at all. The wires and contacts and the battery itself form a positive coefficient that magically balances out against the LED that is trying to self destruct.

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