FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - interest list closed, check your inbox for coupon code

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Snoballz
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Add me to the list for a 2nd one. Especially if there will be an emitter option.

spaceminions
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Change my total on the list to 3 please.

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lionheart_2281
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Thanks for that Teacher.

That 5000k Samsung looks as good as my D4 with 3A 5000K.

Now that’s a side by side I’d love to see…….

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teacher wrote:
Tixx wrote:

Both 80 CRI
Set to 4500k on the camera

5000k Samsung

4000k Samsung

Does either picture represent the true color of the backgrounds & foreground?

If so, which one??

If neither, what color are they???
.
Here is a ‘side by side’ that might make comparison easier.
.

5000k Samsung …………………………………… 4000K Samsung
!{width:48.35%}https://imageshack.com/a/img922/7233/Xhg4ud.jpg!

The 5000k is more than likely closer to daylight colours but I have little use for that. I will always choose the warmer colours for an edc.

Think of it as an anti-blue light app on your phone or PC only it’s on your torch.

teacher
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lionheart_2281 wrote:
Thanks for that Teacher.

That 5000k Samsung looks as good as my D4 with 3A 5000K.

Now that’s a side by side I’d love to see…….

My pleasure Lionheart. Thumbs Up

I would like to see that comparison myself…….

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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teacher
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pinkpanda3310 wrote:
teacher wrote:
Tixx wrote:

Both 80 CRI
Set to 4500k on the camera

5000k Samsung

4000k Samsung

Does either picture represent the true color of the backgrounds & foreground?

If so, which one??

If neither, what color are they???
.
Here is a ‘side by side’ that might make comparison easier.
.

5000k Samsung ………. 4000K Samsung

The 5000k is more than likely closer to daylight colours but I have little use for that. I will always choose the warmer colours for an edc.

Think of it as an anti-blue light app on your phone or PC only it’s on your torch.

Thanks pinkpanda. If I understand you correctly you are saying the 5000K picture shows more realistic background & foreground colors? Is that correct??

I hear what you are saying about color choice to. Thumbs Up I guess that speaks to personal preference, as I would never, on purpose; choose anything warmer than 5000K for an EDC.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Who doesn’t want to escape the cold reality. Nothing wrong with looking at the world with a bit of (4000k) warmth.

teacher
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Thumbs Up . Exactly, nothing wrong with that at all. Beer Just as there is nothing wrong with looking at it in beautiful 5000K illumination. Wink Or whatever one’s preference is for that matter.

There is no right or wrong….. just personal preference.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Eraursls1984
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teacher wrote:
Does either picture represent the true color of the backgrounds & foreground?

If so, which one??

If neither, what color are they???
.
Here is a ‘side by side’ that might make comparison easier.
.

5000k Samsung …………………………………… 4000K Samsung
!{width:48.35%}https://imageshack.com/a/img922/7233/Xhg4ud.jpg!


On my phone and computer screen the 4000K makes the green and blue look correct, and the white looks closest to the correct color. I obviously have no idea about the background.
teacher
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Eraursls1984 wrote:
teacher wrote:
Does either picture represent the true color of the backgrounds & foreground?

If so, which one??

If neither, what color are they???
.
Here is a ‘side by side’ that might make comparison easier.
.

5000k Samsung ………. 4000K Samsung

On my phone and computer screen the 4000K makes the green and blue look correct, and the white looks closest to the correct color. I obviously have no idea about the background.
Ok…. Thumbs Up . On mine I can tell very little difference in the containers. If anything, parts of the 5000K picture look more vivid to me. But the backgrounds & foreground are totally different.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

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zak.wilson
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ToyKeeper wrote:

For example, consider this ballot:
  • 1st choice: 219c, LH351D, XP-L HI
  • 5th choice: XP-G2, XP-G3

This ballot says: Anything except XP-G. It votes “for” the first three, and votes “against” the last two.


As I understand the algorithm, this also produces the same result:
  • 1st choice: 219c, LH351D, XP-L HI
  • 2nd choice: XP-G2, XP-G3

Only the order matters, and putting something in last place is absolutely not a vote for it. Furthermore, this:

  • 1st choice: 219C, LH351D
  • 2nd choice: XP-L HI
  • 3rd choice: XP-G2, XP-G3

votes for the XP-L HI over the other Cree emitters just as much as ranking it first does. Only the order matters, and this still says XP-L HI > (XP-G2, XP-G3).

Finally, though this software doesn’t support it, it is possible to allow leaving options not favored off the ballot with this algorithm; the effect would be the same as ranking them last.

Ceilingbounce – flashlight testing and runtime graphs for Android

joechina
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goshdogit wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Tail parts are no longer glued.
Nice!

The captive pocket clip is one of my favorite features. Could you measure the diameter of its hole?

I really hope Lumintop will make them available separately. Could you try fitting one to an Emisar D4?

Proto one was
Abmessungen Klipp FW3A Proto 1:
Innendurchmesser: 23.1mm (inner diameter)
Außendurchmesser: 26.1mm (outer)
Material: 0.8mm (thickness)
Länge vom abgeknickten Teil (innen) bis zum Auflagepunkt: 42.5mm
(length to resting point)

spaceminions
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As I understand it though, it’s possible to give dishonest rankings in order to have a stronger effect on the result; I won’t explain how in too much detail.

Card Carrying CRI baby https://b.thumbs.redditmedia.com/laMC7BGhREfYTRQjYe2I5FMjTF1IjrmM6bPLK9SKEXU.png

 

Tom Tom
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spaceminions wrote:
As I understand it though, it’s possible to give dishonest rankings in order to have a stronger effect on the result; I won’t explain how in too much detail.

Don’t explain how to do that (gaming). I could easily, but I won’t.

severide
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Tom Tom wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
As I understand it though, it’s possible to give dishonest rankings in order to have a stronger effect on the result; I won’t explain how in too much detail.

Don’t explain how to do that (gaming). I could easily, but I won’t.

Yes, you keep making that very clear.

“Guys, I know exactly how murder someone and get away with it, but I’d never do that.”

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severide wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
As I understand it though, it’s possible to give dishonest rankings in order to have a stronger effect on the result; I won’t explain how in too much detail.

Don’t explain how to do that (gaming). I could easily, but I won’t.

Yes, you keep making that very clear.

“Guys, I know exactly how murder someone and get away with it, but I’d never do that.”

I think TK would easily catch me out. She’s much too clever to be fooled by an obvious ploy.

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5000k Samsung ………. 4000K Samsung

So is that a brown wall, brown shutter, and brown floor as the 4000K makes it look, or is there a white floor, blue/grey shutter and oatmeal wall, as the 5000K shows?

This is what makes me wonder why anyone has a preference for high cri in a warm cct, if it makes everything that does not have a stark colour look brown, what use is the cri? To me it is like having a magnificent variety in your exotic fish tank, and preferring to keep the water dirty.

Beam me up!

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Zulumoose wrote:
5000k Samsung ………. 4000K Samsung

So is that a brown wall, brown shutter, and brown floor as the 4000K makes it look, or is there a white floor, blue/grey shutter and oatmeal wall, as the 5000K shows?

This is what makes me wonder why anyone has a preference for high cri in a warm cct, if it makes everything that does not have a stark colour look brown, what use is the cri? To me it is like having a magnificent variety in your exotic fish tank, and preferring to keep the water dirty.

Thumbs UpQuestion

Sorry for my bad English
(google translator) , (https://www.deepl.com/translator)

Tom Tom
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Zulumoose wrote:
5000k Samsung ………. 4000K Samsung

So is that a brown wall, brown shutter, and brown floor as the 4000K makes it look, or is there a white floor, blue/grey shutter and oatmeal wall, as the 5000K shows?

This is what makes me wonder why anyone has a preference for high cri in a warm cct, if it makes everything that does not have a stark colour look brown, what use is the cri? To me it is like having a magnificent variety in your exotic fish tank, and preferring to keep the water dirty.

Far too much green gum (how much do you chew ?)

Did you leave your camera on auto white balance ? Seems to have tried to keep the green gum green (typical behaviour, the natural world is mostly green, so digicams are biased to make it look so)

Not that this means much, use you’re eyes.

By the way, there is a lot more colour in the 4000K shot, even though it is completely wonky.

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High CRI makes photos look brownish, but that is not what happens in reality. Photo’s are a pretty poor way of showing tint, let go CRI. (but admittedly there is nothing else on the internet).

teacher
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severide wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:
spaceminions wrote:
As I understand it though, it’s possible to give dishonest rankings in order to have a stronger effect on the result; I won’t explain how in too much detail.
Don’t explain how to do that (gaming). I could easily, but I won’t.
Yes, you keep making that very clear.

“Guys, I know exactly how murder someone and get away with it, but I’d never do that.”

Big SmileThumbs Up … Interesting analogy, +1Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Zulumoose
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Tom Tom they’re not my photos (or my gum), read higher up in the thread

Beam me up!

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I personally want to try to choose the highest efficacy for eye-strain sensitive individuals such as myself, definitely planning on its use as a bike light around others.

Having said that, and seeing other’s opinions. I was wondering the efficacy values per watt (Lux/watt) in a 1m square 15m from the light with the different emitters.
Assuming it’s the XPL-hi, and that many on the list are quite vocal of the color rendering characteristics, and some wanting warmer and cooler light,

I am of the assumption that the end result is going to be a tail-switch throwier handheld version of an armytek wizard XHP50 warm, or at least the wizard’s color temp is bang-on, cooler but not too cool compared to an xpl-5D I’ve seen in my brothers blf a6.

Would an XPL-4D or 4C or 5A1/A2 or 5B1/B2, XPLAWT-H0-0000-000LV20E4
be of consideration for the emitter choice?

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Zulumoose wrote:
5000k Samsung ………. 4000K Samsung

So is that a brown wall, brown shutter, and brown floor as the 4000K makes it look, or is there a white floor, blue/grey shutter and oatmeal wall, as the 5000K shows?

The differences you are seeing in the photo is based on white balance of the camera (4500k)
the LED that is a higher color temp than the white balance, looks whiter, bluer, cooler
the LED that is a lower color temp than the white balance, looks browner, yellower, warmer

There is no one True White. It changes based on how closely the LED color temperature, matches the white balance of the users brain at the time.

People who have been in the sun, have their brains auto white balance set to 5500k, so they will prefer 5000k led to 4000k led, at that time. Myself included.

otoh, people who have been sitting under incandescent light (3000k), and whose brain has auto white balanced to that color temperature (takes over 30 minutes for our brain to lower it white balance), will prefer 4000k instead of 5000k, because the 5000k will be too blue.

If Im working on a car in the sun, I prefer 5000k (or even 6000k), and hate 4000k

otoh, my home lighting is 3000k, and when my brain has had time to white balance itself to that color temperature, I HATE 6000K (AND 5000k), and I much prefer 4000k.

I notice that I like my flashlight to be close to, or slightly above the CCT that my brain has adapted its white balance to.

When I wake in the dark for a toilet run, I prefer 3000k, find 4000k too harsh, glaring, blueish, and I wont use 5000k or 6000k at all.

The rule of thumb is to choose a flashlight that is not warmer than the white balance of the users brain at the time.

since I actually seldom work on cars, my need for 5000k or 6000k is rare.
since I live under incandescent light, when I use a flashlight at night, I find 5000k or 6000k unnecessarily cool, and prefer 4000k, so I usually buy 4000k more than 5000k, but I like to have a range of choices for the different environments and ambient light situations I use a flashlight in.

Since the majority of my use is at night, if I had to pick 4000k or 5000k, I would go with 4000k.
But if the majority of my use was during daylight, I would choose 5000k.

What I actually do, is I edc 5000k during the day, and 4000k at night.
on my nightstand is a 3000k light, that I prefer when I wake in the dark. I dont usually edc 3000k, because it is not as versatile as 4000k.
I edc 4000k more often than 5000k, because most of my use is at night, when Im adapted to incandescent.

choices are good. It is useful to carry a flashlight that is not warmer than the white balance of my brain, at the time of use.

when I use warmer light, I also tend to use lower lumens, and when I need higher lumens, I tend to also be using cooler light.

So, I would buy a 4000k Samsung, and a 5000k Samsung, both in 90 CRI. I wont settle for Low CRI, at any color temperature.

Low CRI, and also low R9 CRI, make reds look brown.
It is easy for low CRI to illuminate green and blue things, those are not a challenge for an LED. The Challenge color for an LED is RED
which of these two red things look more brown:

the top one is more brown, it is the 5000k. That tells me the bottom light, 4000k has more CRI, or more R9 CRI (the saturated RED portion of the CRI indexes)
However, both of those lights are 80 CRI, and both could do a better job of showing more Red, and less brown

teacher
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Tixx wrote:

Both 80 CRI
Set to 4500k on the camera
.

5000k Samsung ……………………. 4000K Samsung

pepinfaxera wrote:
Zulumoose wrote:

So is that a brown wall, brown shutter, and brown floor as the 4000K makes it look, or is there a white floor, blue/grey shutter and oatmeal wall, as the 5000K shows?

This is what makes me wonder why anyone has a preference for high cri in a warm cct, if it makes everything that does not have a stark colour look brown, what use is the cri? To me it is like having a magnificent variety in your exotic fish tank, and preferring to keep the water dirty.

Thumbs UpQuestion
That was the original question Zmoose… about the backgrounds & foreground. I like your fish tank analogy too. Big Smile .. I wonder the same at times.

Give me a true ‘neutral white’ as much as possible. (4000K is not ‘neutral white’ AFAIAC) One not tinted warm nor cool.
There is that “preference thing” again. Wink
.
Edit: @ jon_slider….. The above, though fairly complicated to implement for mere mortals; makes a bit of sense amongst all this ‘discussion’. Wink Thanks for sharing…….

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

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Nev
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I’ve always thought that nichia looks dull & dirty , seems to me high cri is very similar.

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Camo5 wrote:
I personally want to try to choose the highest efficacy for eye-strain sensitive individuals such as myself, definitely planning on its use as a bike light around others.

Are you sure you want to use the FW3A as a bike light? There are much better choices out there.
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zak.wilson wrote:
Finally, though this software doesn’t support it, it is possible to allow leaving options not favored off the ballot with this algorithm; the effect would be the same as ranking them last.

The site does support that, but it’s an option I didn’t enable. Perhaps if there are any other polls in the future, it would be a useful UI improvement even if it makes no difference in the results.

spaceminions wrote:
As I understand it though, it’s possible to give dishonest rankings in order to have a stronger effect on the result; I won’t explain how in too much detail.

It’s immune or resistant to most forms of tactical voting, but can sometimes still be affected by burying. It’s a relatively small risk though, and requires a significant number of voters to understand and apply the strategy or at least follow instructions from someone who told them how to vote.

If I were to make an upgrade to the voting system, it wouldn’t involve a big change in the algorithm… it would be to simply make it a private vote which requires a login. However, for an informal poll like this, I think it would be a net loss because it would exclude too many people. It’s simply not necessary unless someone actually puts in the effort to execute a non-trivial ballot-stuffing attack. And only one person has threatened anything like that.

As long as nobody intentionally breaks it, it works. So don’t be that guy. Don’t be the reason we can’t have nice things.

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Camo5 wrote:
Would an XPL-4D or 4C or 5A1/A2 or 5B1/B2, XPLAWT-H0-0000-000LV20E4 be of consideration for the emitter choice?

XP-L HD doesn’t fit into the optics. The closest choice is LH351D, which performs much like the XP-L2 but without the nasty rainbow effect.

Zulumoose wrote:
This is what makes me wonder why anyone has a preference for high cri in a warm cct, if it makes everything that does not have a stark colour look brown, what use is the cri? To me it is like having a magnificent variety in your exotic fish tank, and preferring to keep the water dirty.

People have very different preferences for ideal color temperature. What looks white to one person may look brown or blue to another. It’s known to correlate with age or sun exposure, so people tend to prefer higher CCTs as they get older, but this is only a loose correlation. Have you ever seen old ladies with blue hair? It doesn’t look blue to them; that’s what they view as white.

Me, I usually avoid warm CCTs because they look painfully yellow to me. But I think it’s definitely a good idea to make something warm-ish available, like 4000K, because a lot of people really like it.

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JasonWW wrote:
Camo5 wrote:
I personally want to try to choose the highest efficacy for eye-strain sensitive individuals such as myself, definitely planning on its use as a bike light around others.
Are you sure you want to use the FW3A as a bike light? There are much better choices out there.

Well Currently the D4 is my bike light, it used to be my wizard xD

@toykeeper, I meant the XPL-hi

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