When will BLF bring out their own Headlamp????

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Agro
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A follow up on the XHP70.2 costs.
A compact driver for a 3000 lm light is indeed an expensive thing.
But a headlamp can do with 1000 lm. And a 1000 lm driver will be more efficient than 3000 lm one.

Though I think that the ubiquity of XP-sized LEDs makes this choice better despite that XHP70.2 seems more efficient.

PBWilson
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Jerommel has a good point about thinking about the primary use of the lamp. I’ve got three headlamps (2 Petzl and one Zebralight) and have headbands for a Convoy S2+ or a Fenyx cr123a flashlight for the most part they are used on low to mid levels. Few people need 1000+ lumens to work on a car or putter around the house or workshop. Too much often just blasts a great reflected beam into your eyes.

That said, I’ve used different headlamps for night backpacking (hit the trail after work in the dark, hike for a few hours and be in the mountains when you wake up) and the higher levels with floodier beams have come in handy finding a campsite in the middle of the night. I went caving three times and the ability to have a powerful beam was great when in larger spaces or for peering down dark passageways.

Having a few high cri lights has made me appreciate the better color rendering. My first Petzl’s leds were so cold and blue that it made distinguishing objects in the woods very difficult. Pretty terrible. My Zebralight with 80 cri looks wonderful in the great outdoors.

I did have a long talk with a guy at Zebralight before I got my floody headlamp. He explained the benefits of a floody beam by being able to pretty much see your feet without turning or tipping your head. You can light the trail ahead and still see the roots and rocks that might trip you up by just glancing down with your eyes. The wash of light without a hotspot avoids the “follow the bouncing ball” syndrome that a throwy light can have while moving. If I needed to spot something further up the trail or scan the treetops to find out what the heck was making that terrifying sound, I’d easily pull out a second light in my pocket that was tailored to that use.

After thinking more about the lights that attach to your sternum strap, I wonder if it would be less useful because to see something off to the left or right, you’d have to turn your entire body to see it. I don’t know how much of an issue that would be but it’s something to consider.

I do like having the battery in the light because I sometimes use my Zebralight headlamp on a length of paracord around my neck to light up the area directly in front of me while sitting in camp hands-free. A battery pack at the back of the head might not allow that with the same ease. If the light was a winner (floody, good cri, good UI, decently powerful with a really great low level and able to run for a good long time) I’d probably still buy it if it had a battery pack in the back.

One last thing: like Jerommel mentioned, reading at night with a headlamp is something I do often on the trail. Ramping would be prefect to find the correct brightness for reading in my hammock or tent without waking my wife.

I think the next step is to have a company or individual with the skills to come up with a form factor that would be open to criticism and adjustment. Then we could give our $0.02 to tweak it into a great light at a budget price.

oto
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I would like to see 18650 headlamp with high CRI, ramping UI, with good, big, ergonomic button. It should be as compact and lightweight as possible for 18650. I’d like to have throwy beam with option to make it floody (in my Petzl headlamp there is sliding diffuser for this purpose).

jaynick
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Id love a modern rear mounted 2-4× 18650 battery pack and a nicely heatsinked large led. Seems like almost all the companies going with the compact angled head format now.

WTF
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Agro and you should look into mountain bike lights with the appropriate headband.

Most mountain bikers don’t want to carry more than two cells on their head.

thijsco19
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I read that most of you want a headlamp that has high cri and high output.
What led is available that can do this?

The nichia 219c is not available anymore.
The Samsung LH351D is a nice options but reports say that it suffers from some green in the beam.. Not really good for a high color quality light.

AEDe
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thijsco19 wrote:
I read that most of you want a headlamp that has high cri and high output.
What led is available that can do this?

The nichia 219c is not available anymore.
The Samsung LH351D is a nice options but reports say that it suffers from some green in the beam.. Not really good for a high color quality light.

XPH50/50.2 90cri 3 step have very good light and hi efficiency.

Jerommel
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thijsco19 wrote:

The nichia 219c is not available anymore.


Huh??
Or did you mean the 219B ?

2Q19

thijsco19
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AEDe wrote:
thijsco19 wrote:
I read that most of you want a headlamp that has high cri and high output.
What led is available that can do this?

The nichia 219c is not available anymore.
The Samsung LH351D is a nice options but reports say that it suffers from some green in the beam.. Not really good for a high color quality light.

XPH50/50.2 90cri 3 step have very good light and hi efficiency.


That’s a 6v or 12v led unfortunately.. would require a boost driver which is too expensive.

Jerommel wrote:
thijsco19 wrote:

The nichia 219c is not available anymore.


Huh??
Or did you mean the 219B ?

Both if I recall correctly. I thought I’ve read somewhere that they both are discontinued.
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thijsco19 wrote:

That’s a 6v or 12v led unfortunately.. would require a boost driver which is too expensive.

Difference in price between boost and buck driver is not very lage.
thijsco19
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Wasn’t talking compared to a buck driver.

A boost driver with enough power in the limited size there is, is probably not possible.

Jerommel
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Congrats on your 1234th post, Thijsco. Smile

2Q19

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thijsco19 wrote:
Wasn’t talking compared to a buck driver.
.

Again linear driver? It is not serious.

thijsco19 wrote:

A boost driver with enough power in the limited size there is, is probably not possible.

say that to ZL , nitecore , imalent and so on. Or we again back to head rocket with 30000lm with 1ms to stepdown ?)

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leaftye wrote:
Other than high CRI, there seems to be a lack of consensus, which bodes poorly for a BLF headlamp. We might as well get Wowtac to use a high CRI emitter and call it a day.

Skilhunt h03 with 18350 tube and Anduril and i’d be happy Big Smile
though i would be keen to see the Samsung 90 CRI emitter

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Why even discuss the merits of spot versus flood? We should have both, with two separate optics! This would require a two-channel driver (or two drivers, independently operated?) Still, I can’t think of any reason not to do so. Even cheap headlights are doing that, some better than others.

High output versus low? That debate has been going on at BLF for a while and we will never get it resolved because some people have opinions that facts can’t compete with. Let’s define what the purpose of the headlamp is, then make it bright enough for that purpose. If it’s going to need long battery life, then a more efficient driver is recommended. For most drivers that means lower top output. But if it needs to accommodate seeing well into the distance, then more output is needed. If it has to do both, then a more expensive linear FET driver with high output capability and high efficiency even in low modes is the best choice. led4power has that, but not in two channel output AFAIK.

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Agro
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Note that high output and high efficiency don’t necessarily collide, depending on some design choices.
A buck + FET driver could be powerful and efficient and reasonably compact. Costlier than buck alone, but not much.
ADDED:
I see that you added led4power drivers to your post…
I think that the reason they are somewhat expensive is that they are unique top-end items.
Led4Power has invested a lot of effort into perfecting the design and you pay more for his time than for components.

But I may be wrong about it.

lohtse
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A flood and a spot would be very good indeed… Spot a nice cold white as gives better distance(least thats what I see) and a noce neutal white/nichia for flood would be friggin great…

Caving, Climbing, Mountaineering, Kayaking, Diving etc any time anywhere!!! If you in the UK let me know and lets Play!
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thijsco19
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AEDe wrote:
thijsco19 wrote:
Wasn’t talking compared to a buck driver.
.

Again linear driver? It is not serious.

Maybe. Nothing is set in stone so it all can change.
AEDe wrote:

thijsco19 wrote:

A boost driver with enough power in the limited size there is, is probably not possible.

say that to ZL , nitecore , imalent and so on. Or we again back to head rocket with 30000lm with 1ms to stepdown ?)


We don’t (at least I don’t) have the same amount of money to develop or make a light/driver.
And please don’t make assumptions that are based on nothing. No reason to do that.

@Jerommel, thanks! Didn’t notice it Big Smile .

lohtse wrote:
A flood and a spot would be very good indeed… Spot a nice cold white as gives better distance(least thats what I see) and a noce neutal white/nichia for flood would be friggin great…

It’s best to have both leds the same color. A nice neutral high cri white.
Agro
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Summing up, it seems that there are some irresolvable differences between 2 groups of users: the ones who want versatility and those who want low weight.
The versatile people want 2 outputs. This alone ups the minimum light size quite a bit, but also makes 18350 compatibility trickier.

I don’t think we should try to satisfy both groups with a single light.
Would it be fine to split the efforts into 2 lights, 18650 with 2 optics and 18650+18350(+18500?) with 1 optic?
If yes, would it be good to actually concentrate on making one of them and leave the other for later?

lohtse
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I think it should stay with 18650……two optics would be nice but one is probably best…. Nice versatile lumens range based on majorities needs… same with actual tint… good runtimes at mid to low..

I suspect like me most of us use a mid setting and BOOST to high when required..

User programmable bit like the BLF a6 firmware(so far only experinced this firmware) would be fantastic.

Would love to see a good boost to around 3000 lumens. As can be very useful in my line of work. but not essential..

Would prefer a standard Headlamp setup where led is in center not an L-shape..

Battery behind LED as battery box I tend to find gets damaged(wire) far to easily.

USB charging would be a plus and an IP8 rating would be fantstic.

Caving, Climbing, Mountaineering, Kayaking, Diving etc any time anywhere!!! If you in the UK let me know and lets Play!
Current lighting
Olight X7R,M2R,S1 Baton,S10R Baton 3m,S2R 2, I1R EOS,SofirnC8T,Lenser P7'2,Lenser P14,BLF A6,Fenix HL50,HM50R,HL55,CL05,HL05,CL09,CL25,Nitecore HC30,HC65,NU12,NU32,Astolux K1,Petzl E-light,Tikka Xp3,XP3LED,DUO,Atomlight,Xtar Warboys H3,PL47 Manker E03H and many Chinese ones

DavidEF
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Agro wrote:
Summing up, it seems that there are some irresolvable differences between 2 groups of users: the ones who want versatility and those who want low weight.
The versatile people want 2 outputs. This alone ups the minimum light size quite a bit, but also makes 18350 compatibility trickier.

I don’t think we should try to satisfy both groups with a single light.
Would it be fine to split the efforts into 2 lights, 18650 with 2 optics and 18650+18350(+18500?) with 1 optic?
If yes, would it be good to actually concentrate on making one of them and leave the other for later?


There may be un-resolvable differences of opinion, but the actual technical aspects are resolvable. Again, even cheap headlights in the market have two channels for spot and flood, and those use AAA or AA cells (or even button cells) and are smaller and much more compact than a 18650 headlamp. Making one that uses 18350 should be doable. Personally, I prefer 18650 for power density. For less than double the size you get triple the mAh capacity.

If you’ve looked at the led4power sales thread lately, you’d know that he has a 6× 3535 emitter MCPCB and optic that fits in the head of a C8. Multiple emitters does not have to mean a huge form factor of the light. All the 10180 cell keychain lights being made lately have TIR optics. Two of those side-by-side would still be plenty small for a headlamp. For me, it would be too fiddly for a headlamp if it’s too small. However, for the ones who want super-compact, maybe a second light that runs on a 16340 and has one optic would be a great choice.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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thijsco19 wrote:

And please don’t make assumptions that are based on nothing. No reason to do that.

All my assumptions based on facts)
There are 3 main driver types buck, boost, linear(+ fet) and combination.
Boost driver is small even for 1500-2000lm. At that power small host of headlamp will head up to pain level for minute.
DavidEF
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lohtse wrote:
I think it should stay with 18650……two optics would be nice but one is probably best…. Nice versatile lumens range based on majorities needs… same with actual tint… good runtimes at mid to low..

I suspect like me most of us use a mid setting and BOOST to high when required..

User programmable bit like the BLF a6 firmware(so far only experinced this firmware) would be fantastic.

Would love to see a good boost to around 3000 lumens. As can be very useful in my line of work. but not essential..

Would prefer a standard Headlamp setup where led is in center not an L-shape..

Battery behind LED as battery box I tend to find gets damaged(wire) far to easily.

USB charging would be a plus and an IP8 rating would be fantstic.


The reason for two optics is to have one for spot and one for flood. Trying to do that with one optic would be tricky to say the least.

Tint will be impossible to please everyone, but from recent polls we’ve had on BLF, most peole will be happy with a neutral light in the 4000K to 5000K range.

BLF created firmware has far exceeded the A6 capabilities. Not saying the A6 firmware is bad. Just saying if you like that, you will LOVE what we have for you now! Love

IMHO, getting a headlamp up to 3000 lumens would be nearly impossible to do and very dangerous if it were accomplished, both because of heat. Really, it doesn’t make any sense at all to put 3000 lumens on your head. I have a very nice headlamp that has max output around ~1000lm and that is more than adequate. I say we aim for that, and make it moddable for those who want more lumens to change theirs later. That’s easily accomplished by making the LEDs accessible from a removable bezel, and make sure the MCPCBs and the driver are all ‘standard’ size/shape parts. While we’re at it, we can make sure the optics are ‘standard’ size/shape so those can be changed if someone wants both flood or both spot or something else.

I’m with you on the ‘standard’ headlamp shape instead of L-shape. Wink

I’m also in agreement about battery behind the emitter, rather than a separate battery box, although I have no experience with the latter to know whether I’d actually like it or not. I have had devices with small/thin connecting wires and those wires do always end up being the weak point where breakage happens first.

I’m for USB charging, but to be honest, I’m not totally convinced of its usefulness. I would probably change batteries and keep going rather than stop using the headlamp long enough to get it charged.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

Agro
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DavidEF wrote:
Agro wrote:
Summing up, it seems that there are some irresolvable differences between 2 groups of users: the ones who want versatility and those who want low weight.
The versatile people want 2 outputs. This alone ups the minimum light size quite a bit, but also makes 18350 compatibility trickier.

I don’t think we should try to satisfy both groups with a single light.
Would it be fine to split the efforts into 2 lights, 18650 with 2 optics and 18650+18350(+18500?) with 1 optic?
If yes, would it be good to actually concentrate on making one of them and leave the other for later?


There may be un-resolvable differences of opinion, but the actual technical aspects are resolvable. Again, even cheap headlights in the market have two channels for spot and flood, and those use AAA or AA cells (or even button cells) and are smaller and much more compact than a 18650 headlamp. Making one that uses 18350 should be doable. Personally, I prefer 18650 for power density. For less than double the size you get triple the mAh capacity.

If you’ve looked at the led4power sales thread lately, you’d know that he has a 6× 3535 emitter MCPCB and optic that fits in the head of a C8. Multiple emitters does not have to mean a huge form factor of the light. All the 10180 cell keychain lights being made lately have TIR optics. Two of those side-by-side would still be plenty small for a headlamp. For me, it would be too fiddly for a headlamp if it’s too small. However, for the ones who want super-compact, maybe a second light that runs on a 16340 and has one optic would be a great choice.


Can we resolve the differences in a technical way? You have a good point, let’s try.
Without increasing head size you could do 2 optics that have at most 12-13 mm diameter. Quite floody even with XP-L HI.
Throwier with a flat 1mm² LED like Osram KW CSLNM1.TG, but this one is probably only cool low-CRI. Any other options?
Also, a single flood emitter won’t be as efficient as a triple.

What other ways we can use to achieve the dual-beamness?
TIR based zoomie? Adds some weight, but could be interesting.
Triple TIR with different LEDs in different cups? Similar to small individual optics. DC-FIX could be applied to a subset of cups.

As to battery choice:
Personally I find my Skilhunt H03 quite heavy. Without the 2nd strap I have to strap it very tight, not comfortable for a longer period. I suppose I could use 18350 more comfortably without going with the 2nd strap…

Sum up the weight of 18650 flashlight and a 2-strap band. Then 18350 with 1-strap band and 2 spare batteries. Runtime is the same, the latter weighs less. If you don’t need that much runtime, you take one spare or none at all. If you need more, you use the 18650 tube and 1 or more spares. That’s nice versatility.
Personally I often have low energy needs where a single 18350 is plenty. On the lights that support shorty cells I always go for having both short and full tube.

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DavidEF wrote:

I’m with you on the ‘standard’ headlamp shape instead of L-shape. Wink

The problem of “standart” configuration with 2 emitters that all driver and led should be on one MCPCB ,so development is harder and modding is harder too.
lohtse
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DavidEF wrote:
lohtse wrote:
I think it should stay with 18650……two optics would be nice but one is probably best…. Nice versatile lumens range based on majorities needs… same with actual tint… good runtimes at mid to low..

I suspect like me most of us use a mid setting and BOOST to high when required..

User programmable bit like the BLF a6 firmware(so far only experinced this firmware) would be fantastic.

Would love to see a good boost to around 3000 lumens. As can be very useful in my line of work. but not essential..

Would prefer a standard Headlamp setup where led is in center not an L-shape..

Battery behind LED as battery box I tend to find gets damaged(wire) far to easily.

USB charging would be a plus and an IP8 rating would be fantstic.


The reason for two optics is to have one for spot and one for flood. Trying to do that with one optic would be tricky to say the least.

Tint will be impossible to please everyone, but from recent polls we’ve had on BLF, most peole will be happy with a neutral light in the 4000K to 5000K range.

BLF created firmware has far exceeded the A6 capabilities. Not saying the A6 firmware is bad. Just saying if you like that, you will LOVE what we have for you now! Love

IMHO, getting a headlamp up to 3000 lumens would be nearly impossible to do and very dangerous if it were accomplished, both because of heat. Really, it doesn’t make any sense at all to put 3000 lumens on your head. I have a very nice headlamp that has max output around ~1000lm and that is more than adequate. I say we aim for that, and make it moddable for those who want more lumens to change theirs later. That’s easily accomplished by making the LEDs accessible from a removable bezel, and make sure the MCPCBs and the driver are all ‘standard’ size/shape parts. While we’re at it, we can make sure the optics are ‘standard’ size/shape so those can be changed if someone wants both flood or both spot or something else.

I’m with you on the ‘standard’ headlamp shape instead of L-shape. Wink

I’m also in agreement about battery behind the emitter, rather than a separate battery box, although I have no experience with the latter to know whether I’d actually like it or not. I have had devices with small/thin connecting wires and those wires do always end up being the weak point where breakage happens first.

I’m for USB charging, but to be honest, I’m not totally convinced of its usefulness. I would probably change batteries and keep going rather than stop using the headlamp long enough to get it charged.

IMHO, getting a headlamp up to 3000 lumens would be nearly impossible to do and very dangerous if it were accomplished, both because of heat.”
have you not seen the 3350lm thurnite? http://www.thrunite.com/thrunite-th30-super-bright-rechargeable-headlamp/
Shows that it is possible for a short period to have 3000+ lumens as a nice boost when needed.. I agree about the 1000lms(I use the HC65/HC30/H3) but a boost to 3000+lm can be useful and saves carrying the extra flashlight that you may do for those occassions they are needed

BLF created firmware has far exceeded the A6 capabilities. Not saying the A6 firmware is bad. Just saying if you like that, you will LOVE what we have for you now! Love
DO tell and what can it be flashed too?

“I’m for USB charging, but to be honest, I’m not totally convinced of its usefulness. I would probably change batteries and keep going rather than stop using the headlamp long enough to get it charged.”
Take a look at the Nitecore NU range(I have a few) honestly they are great but a tad lacking for some things.Just means you can charge on the go as I have done with both the NU20 and HC65also you can run them whilst they are connected to a powerbank. This has been a very good plus feature on the NU range as I have ended up on two occassions using a powerbank with them and still using them as my light source.


The reason for two optics is to have one for spot and one for flood. Trying to do that with one optic would be tricky to say the least.

Tint will be impossible to please everyone, but from recent polls we’ve had on BLF, most peole will be happy with a neutral light in the 4000K to 5000K range.”

I have no issues with two optics just may be easier to make using one that was all. As to tint oh yes you will never please everyone, Even me and my partner don’t always agree as I prefer cold white where she prefers Neutral white or Nichia….

“ I say we aim for that, and make it moddable for those who want more lumens to change theirs later. That’s easily accomplished by making the LEDs accessible from a removable bezel, and make sure the MCPCBs and the driver are all ‘standard’ size/shape parts. While we’re at it, we can make sure the optics are ‘standard’ size/shape so those can be changed if someone wants both flood or both spot or something else”

Heck yes to all this…
Just starting out with modding so as no other headlamps seem easy one that is design from the outset to be modable is a brilliant idea

Caving, Climbing, Mountaineering, Kayaking, Diving etc any time anywhere!!! If you in the UK let me know and lets Play!
Current lighting
Olight X7R,M2R,S1 Baton,S10R Baton 3m,S2R 2, I1R EOS,SofirnC8T,Lenser P7'2,Lenser P14,BLF A6,Fenix HL50,HM50R,HL55,CL05,HL05,CL09,CL25,Nitecore HC30,HC65,NU12,NU32,Astolux K1,Petzl E-light,Tikka Xp3,XP3LED,DUO,Atomlight,Xtar Warboys H3,PL47 Manker E03H and many Chinese ones

Agro
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Note: there are good 18700 batteries with built-in chargers.

They can be used as a substitute to having charging in flashlight.
This is not a perfect solution, less fool-proof, less comfortable to use, no 18400 equivalent.
But sometimes it may be better than an in-light charger due to cost or size limitations.

lohtse
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Agro wrote:
Note: there are good 18700 batteries with built-in chargers.

They can be used as a substitute to having charging in flashlight.
This is not a perfect solution, less fool-proof, less comfortable to use, no 18400 equivalent.
But sometimes it may be better than an in-light charger due to cost or size limitations.

forgive my ignorance but what do 18700 fit??????

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PBWilson
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Location: Rochester, NY

They fit in a number of 18650 lights with larger double springs. I doubt there’s a list anywhere though.

PBWilson
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Last seen: 5 hours 58 min ago
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Location: Rochester, NY

By double springs I mean one at the head and one at the tail.

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