Imalent unveils R70C – R90C – MS12

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Interesting, AliExpress is not the cheapest place to buy one huh? lol On the other hand, Lightmalls shows $380 at a discounted price from the $409 suggested retail.

Gonna have to sign up for the group buy just to see how many penny jars gotta go. :stuck_out_tongue:

No, that’s not how air flow works. If a fan tries to push air in and there is no path for it to exit, air pressure builds up and air stops going in. It’s all about creating a pressure differential.

Think of a laptop. It’s fan pulls cool air in from the bottom and exhausts hot air out the side. Now cover the side exhaust. The air stops flowing and the temperatures start increasing.

In the MS12, I think the air must be flowing like one of the two pictures I drew. I don’t think it’s design is anywhere near as good as the cooling setup we see on the Acebeam X70 which had clear intakes and exhausts.

Seriously Jason, I’m not an idiot. (Well, sometimes I’m not! :laughing: ) When air flow gets backed up it stops going in, doesn’t it? And then of course it’s not going out or it’s building pressure to make something blow. Air going in, air goes out. Really really simple.

I put a computer fan on top of an amplifier heat sink mounted to a 6” disc of 1” thick 6061 aluminum to cool 5 Cree COB’s. At first I mounted the fan pushing air away from the sink, pulling it in from the sides through the fins. Didn’t work well and was noisy. Then I flipped the fan and have it now blowing down into the heat sink, air out through the open sides of the fins… at 60W (3A at 19.1V actual readings at the fixture) the aluminum disc doesn’t even make it to 100ºF, running 12 hours a day.

Computer programming If/Then rules…. IF air is going in, THEN air is going out. Even without an exit point it’s only a matter of time. :wink:

Without knowing how they built it, but seeing diagrams showing cool air in on one side and hot air out the other, we are left to assume they actually knew what they were doing. Drawing conclusions without factual evidence is really an exercise in futility…

Some more If/Then… IF you supply enough power to a fan that can sufficiently cool the head for long run times, THEN you’ve drained your battery pack and don’t have long run times anyway. :wink:

Compromises, always about the compromises…

I have to agree with DB but Jason is also not wrong. It does need a nice path for the airflow. But if air is getting in it is also getting out.

Though, the picture from imalent doesn’t make much sense.

However it does show the power of a big manufacturer, you can just make a custom fan to implement. For my design that uses a fan I have to use a standard type of fan and that limits the possibilities.

The power the fan draws from the battery is so small it’s negligible.

I’m trying to understand this picture, but I think it might be BS.

They may have given the picture to an artist and told them to represent cool air going in and hot air going out. So the artist just drew some simple blue and red arrows. I don’t think there’s any way you can get air flowing into the left half of the head and have hot air leaving out the right half as it is seen in the image.

I think the top vertical ports/slots are the intake ports and the bottom port/ slots are exhaust, with a shelf in between, with a large inlet hole in the center or multiple holes in it to create the draw from the outside.

That’s what I was implying though, without some factual input it’s just not possible to decipher what’s going on there. They may have creatively implemented a plastic subdivider for the fan compartment that does indeed shift air across. I know Nitecore has done some amazing plastic dividers in their lights that work but seem to have made their lights overly complicated. Something like that here could, hypothetically, create a pathway for the air movement. Won’t know until we see one I guess.

Are we talking about 360W here? 4416 lumens to 12 emitters, what’s that, 5A x 6V? 30W each x 12? Powered by 8 20700 cells, that’s a heck of a load on cells! And to cool that, we can’t even think about a puny little computer cooling fan pulling tiny current at 12V, no, that’s not gonna get the job done here! We need a serious fan! So yeah, the fan will indeed cut into the battery pack, as if the emitters weren’t already kicking it’s arse!

360W is nothing for 8x20700s. If the cells are rated for 30A, being Sanyo NCR20700A/C, running at 25A, that would mean 3,5Vx25Ax8 cells = 700W max draw pack.

The main problem as you said is power dissipation.

I think they should have just taken a Threadripper sized air cooler with a massive head and a 120mm fan. Would that be overkill? No, not at all. Although I don’t think anybody would like a 1,3kg heatsink/3 pound heatsink, but in this light, that would be liked.

What is the capacity of a high discharge 20700 cell? 3000mAh? You see the problem? If those 8 cells are in 2S4P, which they likely are, you effectively have 4 8.4V batteries at 3000mAh to run the 12 emitters. I can’t see run time being very long at all, and the heat of course would overpower whatever fan they could cram in there. It’s all well and good that a cell can do 10C, but the simple reality is run time is relegated to mere minutes at this kind of discharge rate. Believe me, I know! I actually used 3 pounds of copper for the head of a light, and then some, and with only 3 70.2’s pulling 48.6A from 2 Samsung 30T 21700’s the effect is fairly devastating, both in heat and cell drain. That’s “only” 20,000 lumens…

More less-efficient emitters, more less-effective cells, less heat sink with the addition of a fan, I don’t see it boding well for the monies spent…

Edit: Some might see my comparison as irrelevant, but 12 x 6V emitters run by 8 cells is still 3 6V emitters run by 2 cells, just 4 times in one light. If the heat in my single light with 2 cells and 3 emitters is bad, imagine it multiplied x 4?

I think it’s over 500 watts.

I was recalling that the L6 makes around 4000 lumens with a ~5A draw, so I did simple math to get 30W per emitter. 5A x 6V = 30W in the L6. Multiply that times 12 and it’d be some 360W. I’m probably overlooking something as I usually do.

53,000 lumens divided by 12 emitters would require each emitter to make 4416 lumens, or effectively 12 Convoy L6’s running in a single head.

@DB Custom, don’t forget your 20k lumen load was spread out across 3 emitters, and not 12. XHP70.2s are very efficient below a 5000 lumen load.

Also, do you have a thread of you making that 21700 light? I would love to see it.

XHP-70 emitters make more fuss about being pushed hard. :wink: Times 12. Still, it’s not all about the heat, power consumption is problematic for the limited power supply. The number of places that require compromise is the real issue.

Even with 9V MTG2 emitters, 4 of them make a lot of heat. I have a TrustFire TR J-20 that uses 3 32650’s to power 4 9V MT-G2’s in parallel and again, in spite of a ludicrous amount of additional heat sink the light does get hot pretty fast. And it “only” makes around 14,000 lumens. This light is monstrous, with very deep fins and a LOT of them. Insufficient. Big power is just difficult to do on battery packs that we can hand hold. We need to use the flashlight to house the cooling system and a belt mounted battery pack to supply the power, this would remove the pack from the heat of the operating light and allow for much higher efficiency. Keeping the cells so close to the heat source is just folly, when maximum lumens is the game.

My big light, or the triple 70.2, is my 5th scratch built light… hence DBC-05. I started this literally the day before I blew out 2 discs in my neck, finished it (as a different plan) after neck surgery. It was satisfying coming back and achieving the results I saw. :wink: I don’t take pics while on the lathe, sorry. I’m not a machinist, I’m a photographer… I do NOT want my equipment out in the shop and I DO want to keep all my fingers…

Blue, remember that Imalent is using the older XHP-70 in the big light. :wink:

Ok wut. Why? XHP 70.2 are quite a bit better than XHP70s, except for tint shift obviously.

Perhaps they have a problem with their source of cheap XHP70.2s not passing quality testing at such high power levels, or maybe they want higher profit margins by using old XHP70s left by streelight/big light manufacturers since they are way cheaper.

Martin says that he was told the 70.2 have some issues so they went with the more reliable 70 series. I am not sure what they were referring to but that’s what they told him. Obviously, it’s not going to be easy to push the 70.2 to challenging levels when using 12 of them, and at under 5,000 lumens per emitter there just isn’t a problem. The use of 70.2’s in this light would yield even more than what they’ve tested, if indeed the 70’s do 53,000 then the 70.2’s would do more than that without changing anything else.

Now, are we going to pay $600 for a flashlight then buy 12 new emitters at over $12 each to upgrade it? Well, somebody here might. Somebody with deeper pockets than mine…

Edit: Several of us here have pushed the 70.2 to over 9000 lumens in lights like the L6, maybe even in the GT…

:D