What is the best high capacity 18650 battery?

112 posts / 0 new
Last post
radellaf
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/14/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 31
Location: NC

Just got in three 36G and here’s a comparison of them with a couple of now 2-year-old 35E cells. I am not impressed. Avg 2% higher capacity. Temp 32-34C through the run, had a fan a few feet away. The edge cells #1 and #4 were held in at the top of the bays by spring tension and the center cells #2 and #3 had magnets (those are the two ways to deal with too-flat flat-tops in the MC3000).

This was a 750mA discharge to 2.8V after a 4.2V charge to 90mA. I usually measure capacities a bit lower than rated, but pretty sad showing for the new cells in comparison. Not sure if it’s enough to complain to the supplier, but I’ll probably send them this as a FYI. Subpar batch? Normal variation between cells?

For use, they’re fine, as good as the other 3500mAh, but vs not-fresh 35E cells I would have liked to see better. Got them on sale $5 ea from 18650batteries so even with $5 shipping didn’t pay a premium. The 35E were from Banggood 9/2016 at $7ea. The 36G have circular indents on the bottom, which I hear is normal (extra safety “vent”).

Text version:
36G #1: 3195 mAh
36G #2: 3287 mAh
35E #1: 3184 mAh
35E #2: 3174 mAh

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3964
Location: Vancouver, Canada

How many times were they cycled?
Were they all discharged and recharged by the charger?

radellaf
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/14/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 31
Location: NC

Couple of times each (by the MC3000) when I got them a few days ago, same for the 35E two years ago (they saw very little flashlight use if any, stored at 3.7-3.9V). Just ran the 750mA test on these 4 tonight discharge maybe an hour after charge completed. Usually test at 500, but wanted to see a result before bed.

So for new cells 2% isn’t bad, 36/35=~3%, and really, I don’t see a lot of capacity loss with storage, but 1% would be my guess. I have original Panasonic Bs that lost maybe 2-300mAh over many many years. Lot less than the calendar life data I see published.

Just looked at the 35E datasheet and they’re min 3350mAh with a 2.65V cutoff at .2C with C=3400 (not 3500). Can’t find a 36G datasheet yet but I presume it’s similar. FWIW, maybe nothing, the DC IR was about 55mohm for the 36G vs 45 for the 35E, but take MC3000 IR measurements with a grain of salt. I see 30-45 for 30Q/VTC6/HG2.

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3964
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Maybe the improvement is mainly less voltage drop under load, hence the 10A rating instead of 8A?
This would mean the cell has higher Wh but that would not be visible form looking at mAh, a discharge graph like the ones from HKJ would be necessary.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11548
Location: Houston Texas

So as far as capacity goes, they’re pretty much the same as the 35E, right? I think that’s what we were all predicting. How is this in any way sad?

Have you compared their internal resistance?

Have you measured their current output using a FET based driver?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11548
Location: Houston Texas

Enderman wrote:
Maybe the improvement is mainly less voltage drop under load, hence the 10A rating instead of 8A?

Are they rated at 10 amp continuous? I haven’t seen any data sheets for it.

Edit, I guess datasheet aside, the stores are listing it as a 10 amp continuous cell. So that must be where the Improvement is.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

radellaf
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/14/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 31
Location: NC

I0A CDR rating vs 8A, yes. I wouldn’t pay extra for the 36G but then, I didn’t.

Argh, the MC3000 does Wh but the result is buried and I didn’t record it. I can rerun the test later but the next day or two I’m topping off 50 or so cells in anticipation of the hurricane (NC, USA).

No plans to do a FET driver test, they’ll be used in Zebralight SC600w MkIV Plus and SC64w primarily. I have a handful of budget lights, one of them probably FET, but all I’m sure of is most are 7135. Emisar D4 (XPG) OTW, that’s FET I think.

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 9596
Location: NE & SW Alabama

SKV89 wrote:

I have a bunch of 3500mah GAs and VTC6 already that have higher capacity than the 30Qs and VTC6 performs better too. But I want the highest capacity for my ROT66 with the 219B because I’m planning to use it as a work lamp to make use of that gorgeous tint.
Hey… if you think the minuscule run time increase you ‘might see’ is worth the price of getting new batteries….. I say go for it & let us know how it works out. Thumbs Up

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

radellaf
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/14/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 31
Location: NC

I mostly got them both out of curiosity and because it has been two years since I got the last batch of batteries. Got two VTC6 and another GA from ZL few weeks ago, three 30Q since they seem like good ones to have (I do vape some, and the SC600M4 can pull 8A), so a few 36G, especially on sale, seemed like a good addition. 1-2%, if it’s not more money, and rated 10A, what’s not to like… Figured if they’re new for 2018, they’ll at least be sure to be fresh cells. Now, if I get any other 3600, that’ll be purely for curiosity. Eight this-year batteries is more than enough. The Anker 10Ah power bank also makes using a few for USB purposes less likely.

radellaf
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/14/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 31
Location: NC

Update after some 2A discharge runs:
36G#1 3145mAh 11.164Wh
36G#2 3143mAh 11.167Wh
35E#1 3111mAh 11.065Wh
35E#2 3121mAh 11.088Wh

So at best .1Wh or <1% increase. Vs brand new 35E, probably no increase.
Conclusion: you’re buying 10A vs 8A CDR, and maybe at HKJ’s 5 or 7A load the 36G will have a more apparent advantage, but at 7A the 3000mAh high drain versions, so far, always seem to win out.

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3964
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Cool, thanks for the info.

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 3051
Location: US

Test results for the 36G from 18650batterystore.com on my Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger.

3454, 3385, 3427 3463, 3328. The average is about the same as the 18650GA. I think charger tests at 1A.

There’s no freaking way this cell is 3,600mah. Also this cell has a recessed top (not flat) so I needed to weld solder blobs inorder to even charge them on my charger.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11548
Location: Houston Texas

SKV89 wrote:
Test results for the 36G from 18650batterystore.com on my Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger.

3454, 3385, 3427 3463, 3328. The average is about the same as the 18650GA. I think charger tests at 1A.

There’s no freaking way this cell is 3,600mah. Also this cell has a recessed top (not flat) so I needed to weld solder blobs in order to even charge them on my charger.


I think the capacity of the 36G is supposed to be pretty much the same as the 35E, the big difference being a higher continuous amp draw. 8 to 10

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3964
Location: Vancouver, Canada

SKV89 wrote:
Test results for the 36G from 18650batterystore.com on my Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger.

3454, 3385, 3427 3463, 3328. The average is about the same as the 18650GA. I think charger tests at 1A.

There’s no freaking way this cell is 3,600mah. Also this cell has a recessed top (not flat) so I needed to weld solder blobs inorder to even charge them on my charger.


As expected the real world capacity is always less than the manufacturer rating.
I think the only way you can get close to the manufacturer rating is by discharging at like 0.1A or something ridiculous.
ggf31416
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Joined: 02/25/2016 - 17:38
Posts: 270
Location: Uruguay

Quite disappointing results for the 36G from Thunderheart LG M36 vs Samsung 36G capacity test .

Of course, since he only tested one cell the results are not very reliable, but at anything but low current the results he got for the 36G are worse than his results for the LG MJ1 .

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3964
Location: Vancouver, Canada

ggf31416 wrote:
Quite disappointing results for the 36G from Thunderheart "LG M36 vs Samsung 36G capacity test":https://youtu.be/hImXmm86IzU . Of course, since he only tested one cell the results are not very reliable, but at anything but low current the results he got for the 36G are worse than his results for the "LG MJ1":https://youtu.be/fJDuKyXfrQY?t=9m17s .

There's something wrong with that test for sure, even the 35E outperforms the M36.

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20INR18650-35E%203500mAh%20%28Pink%29%20UK.html

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG%2018650%20M36%203600mAh%20(Cyan)%20UK.html

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11548
Location: Houston Texas

Enderman wrote:

ggf31416 wrote:
Quite disappointing results for the 36G from Thunderheart LG M36 vs Samsung 36G capacity test . Of course, since he only tested one cell the results are not very reliable, but at anything but low current the results he got for the 36G are worse than his results for the LG MJ1 .

There’s something wrong with that test for sure, even the 35E outperforms the M36.


https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20INR18650-35E%203500mAh%20%28Pink%29%20UK.html


https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG%2018650%20M36%203600mAh%20(Cyan)%20UK.html


You seem to be jumping to one of two conclusions. Either the test is inaccurate or the 36G it’s just not that good of a battery.

Thundheart says that the store Queen Battery did their own test and decided not to sell the 36G because of it’s reduced performance.

It seems odd that Samsung would release a battery that didn’t actually perform better than its predecessor. Who knows, maybe more tests need to be done.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 20 hours 37 min ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 3964
Location: Vancouver, Canada

JasonWW wrote:

You seem to be jumping to one of two conclusions. Either the test is inaccurate or the 36G it’s just not that good of a battery.

Thundheart says that the store Queen Battery did their own test and decided not to sell the 36G because of it’s reduced performance.

It seems odd that Samsung would release a battery that didn’t actually perform better than its predecessor. Who knows, maybe more tests need to be done.


Why would a newly released battery from the exact same brand with a higher current rating and higher mAh rating perform worse than the 35E?
As I said earlier, the 35E outperforms the LG M36 (at lower currents, the M36 is better at 5A+)

Earlier in the thread someone tested their 36Gs and found that they were almost identical to the 35E, only slightly better.
Maybe this reviewer got fake or reject samples or something like that?

radellaf
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 10/14/2017 - 23:43
Posts: 31
Location: NC
Quote:
real world capacity is always less than the manufacturer rating.

Often, but, for example, I just tested the XTAR 2200mAh high drain and got near 2300mAh. Not sure that’s ever happened for the 3000+ rated cells, I think I got 29xx for most of those. With 2600 and below I’m often pleasantly surprised.

Quote:
Also this cell has a recessed top (not flat) so I needed to weld solder blobs…

I’d say 20-30% of the 18650s I order are like that. It’s still a “flat top,” and if a charger can’t make contact I blame the charger (and use a little magnet).

Chargers vary. Some have a full-length flat contact from the bottom of the bay with no protrusion to contact the battery. The MC3000 accommodates AAA to 26650, so it’s just a compromise I accept. The XTAR MC1 Plus contact, in contrast, sticks out a bit and can deal with it. The fully flat contacts also aren’t as safe, since, if there’s any flaw with the edge of the wrap, they could bridge outer shell to top contact. Not that you should use a cell with a flaw in the wrap at all…

hpapagaj
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 10/30/2017 - 11:26
Posts: 5

I would like to buy some high capacity batteries (3000 mAh+). For first check Sanyo NCR18650GA are seem to be good.

What are the recommended places to buy in EU?

I found on banggood, but I don’t know if they are genuine?

https://www.banggood.com/2pcs-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3_6V-3500mAh-10A-Recharge...

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 31 min ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 11548
Location: Houston Texas

hpapagaj wrote:
I would like to buy some high capacity batteries (3000 mAh+). For first check Sanyo NCR18650GA are seem to be good.

What are the recommended places to buy in EU?

I found on banggood, but I don’t know if they are genuine?

https://www.banggood.com/2pcs-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3_6V-3500mAh-10A-Recharge...


Banggood doesn’t knowingly sell fake batteries. So if it says it’s a Sanyo ncr18650ga, and that’s what it should be.

In the EU I only know of https://eu.nkon.nl.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

Pages