FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

I’m not surprised to see my comments misinterpreted, but still. No, I wasn’t laughing because of your preferences, only the way you express them, which is perhaps too uncharitable but at this point I don’t think I mind that.

I wasn’t saying that someone only uses their light against white walls, but that no matter how good it looks while they do, when they don’t, it can and does throw off the color of objects to some degree, regardless of whether they notice or whether it’s because (as in the example I gave) there’s a lack of red; if you look at maukka’s charts, I would probably dislike one where there is any set of wavelengths that there is too much or little of for the color temperature specified, including lights that are too green (or, if taken to extremes, too pink), relative to what should be present, not in absolute terms. Maybe it has a very big spike that includes too much of one color, compared to all the others. The thing is, even if you move the goalposts and assume that you’re using such little light that nothing you’re seeing is lit at a level that allows you to see in color, the effect does not go away completely. Instead of something being a different color than it should be, it’s just lighter or darker than it should be.

I do not attempt to say that others must think as I do. But I refuse to be told that my preference for color accuracy is invalid; that I am a freak for wanting things to appear as they are, that making some things look strange without knowing it is okay but if a led is not precisely the right tint, then no matter its other qualities it’s instantly trash. (Note: I exclude TK here since she has mentioned her inability to automatically adjust to warmer and cooler CCT’s) And hey, i don’t absolutely love the 219c either; I like the viltrox panel much more - it gets CRI, CCT, and position orthagonal to BBL right, so there’s not much to object to. But with the 219c, when mine came in just slightly green, I considered just using it, because honestly at the minor level of green I saw, it was hard to notice in the real world. But eventually I decided to buy a $1 swatchbook of filters, put the lightest or second-lightest minus green on there, and called it a day. Maybe sometime I’ll get the zircon version due to the heat, but otherwise, it was a simple solution to a minor issue. Don’t have the sheet? Don’t worry about it; if it wasn’t for the d4 219c being 5250k, i might not even have bothered - at 4000k, like the lh351d’s I’m looking forward to in this light, the effect is supposed to be little to none depending what batch you choose, and regardless, if I was looking at 4000k, once my vision adjusted, i’d probably have been even less likely to notice.

Anyway. The point here is, you can’t retreat into “but mah personal preference” until you acknowledge that that means that others’ preferences get equal validity. So the CRI freak thing? Yeah… Otherwise, don’t let anything I said be twisted into some sort of “CRI is most valid” thing. No, CRI is just valid, nothing more or less. If you’d rather enjoy your lights by how their light looks when you use them rather than how well the way it makes some things look corresponds to how they look under ideal sources, that’s a valid way too.

I trust TK.

I hope you’re right that you and TK prefer exactly the same things.

TK, thanks for doing the heavy lifting!

I definitely see a distinct difference. The only emitters I have in that range are low output Yuji 5mm 5600K, but when I have compared them to some of the better cool white 5mm’s that I’ve ended up with over the years on wood, the difference in appearance is well beyond the moderate difference in color temperature.

But it really is up to individual preference how much that matters.

This is quite true. Our low light “scotopic” vision has poor color discrimination, especially in the red range,

Context also matters for me. My main headlamp is actually 3000K. It’s great when working indoors, as if I’m going between a dark attic and a lit room, or supplementing my overhead lights for detailed work, they’re a close match. Also out in the woods with no other lights, the warm light is easy on the eyes and fairly natural looking when there are no other lights to compare against.

If I’m using it around twilight or LED streetlights, however, it seems distractingly orange.

The same to a less degree happens with 4000K, except it seems slightly cool compared to 2700-3000K household lights. I treat it as a compromise CCT - usually not ideal, but still a reasonable match for most situations.

I’m actually astounded how completely your last post was misinterpreted and how quickly people were to jump to the “defense” of their own preference… because apparently they felt you were attacking it?

End of the day I’m much more worried about tint shift (which wouldn’t usually be an issue with a triple like this anyway) and green hue than CRI, but I’ll certainly take higher Ra when I can get it, there is literally zero downside other than a slight loss in efficiency (which isn’t going to matter much in an EDC-size/style light). If the beam profile of a given emitter is half-decent I think I could make do with almost anything. Luckily, thanks to the emitter choices we’re expecting bad tint shouldn’t really be an issue at all, its pretty simple - pick the option that best suits you, whether you care more about the beam profile or CRI.

I’m not really concerned about making a “bad choice” at all with how easy swapping that SST-20 triple board into this is supposed to be, and it costing a whopping $7. My interest in the light is much more to due with the tail e-switch and small size than what emitters come stock.

TK has had the light in hand. I trust that over any speculations.

That’s not the point… If someone has a new light in hand and LOVES the 6500k temp of the emitters, that doesnt align with my preference at all.

Not that I necessarily have amy different preference than TK in this case, but someone may want a very floody light for example, so her comment on the LH351 + frosted optic being too floody would have a very different meaning to that person.

A lot of people have used triples with Carclo optics. They’re extremely popular, and every light designed that way has pretty much the same beam.

The prototypes may be rare, but almost anyone can see exactly how the beam will look, using common parts. I have no monopoly on experience here.

To put it another way, just because I like a particular type of pizza doesn’t mean everyone has to like that same type of pizza. There isn’t a right and wrong kind of pizza. And lots of people have enough experience with pizza that they can confidently order something they’ll like at a pizza place they’ve never been to before.

A wall of text with overly assertive language and heavy dependence on outside context… is going to be interpreted as confrontational. Many people won’t even read the whole comment, and will instead just scan for key phrases here and there to get the gist.

If you can condense a comment into fewer words, and quote the people being replied to or write in a way which doesn’t need quotes, it reduces the chance of misinterpretation.

Anyway, back to the topic, the two emitter types requested are both very highly regarded on BLF:

  • XP-L HI 3D (~4850K)
  • LH351D 4000K 90CRI

It would be hard to go wrong with either one, but which one looks better will vary from person to person.

Hmm…
I don’t find the 219C 4000K yellow at all, unless you compare it to cooler whites, but that’s a matter of colour temperature.
Must say though, and this makes a lot of difference, i don’t have any 4000K 219C in a reflector light.
I tried one in a C8 at the time and it was very disappointing. A lot of tint shift and thus a dirty brown corona with a green hue.

You can avoid tint shift quite a bit by using a tall centring gasket that shrouds the LED a little.
Paint it white with White Out (Tipp Ex) and the green hue brown mixes with the more red hue cooler white of the spill.
The green hue brown will no longer be in the corona, in fact, there is much less of a corona (depending on how much is shrouded).
I did an XM-L2 4D and a 219C 3000K like that, and also a Samsung LH351 in reflector lights.
Just an off topic tip…

I don’t know any regular 5mm through hole white LEDs that are nice.
Their tint and CRI, let alone the amount of red make any Cree of the same color temp look nice.

I personally prefer 4000K for work lights.
It’s more “awake” than household lighting, but still easy on the eyes / relaxed.
Maybe it’s the big blue spike in the average LED spectrum that makes me prefer something warmer than 5000K.

Sure looks yellow beside an E21A.

Yes, but the E21 4000K is rather rosy.

Rosy is good. :slight_smile:

At least, I think so. People with different eyes have different preferences though.

I like it too.
I think most people prefer LEDs below the BBL
But i never experienced the 219C 4000K as being greenish, except, as i mentioned, in a reflector light.

I see more green than yellow..

One of the best things I’ve done over the years is to be aware of people who like lights that you like and treat them like a bit of a mentor . I started doing this a long time ago and have followed Toykeeper since we both care about similar things in a light . I even know her preferance in tint vs mine “ I like more red” ..and of course “ I’m right”

Jasonww on the other hand likes cool white and doesn’t notice low pwm .. both of which make me crazy.

When someone simply says TK likes it I have a pretty clear idea what it means.

I used to like cool white but as my eyes have aged anything much above 4000k has too much glare and has become increasingly uncomfortable to use. So I agree with TK that preferences, literally, have a lot to do with our individual eyesight

I do not like rosy in an EDC light. I enjoy it in an trail hiking camping type light. But not anywhere there might be white.
Of course this is just my opinion

Rosy tint always gives me pause, but it’s better than the same degree of greenish tint.