Ah thanks!
:laughing: :+1:
Well this is watt I was alluding to in this intently “loaded” question and I was waiting to see watt replies if any it generated. Yes the latest version Osram KW has higher lux than XPG2 but with caveats. And they are significant caveats in an ever more popular FET driver world. Osram may improve the KW’s current handling abilities in the future and when that happens well it’ll definitely without caveats be The King.
Past certain amps the dedomed XPG2 S4 2B today is still King IMO. Butt let’s face it. LEP technology currently lux surpasses all LEDs out there with all 1:1 input factors considered. And the thing is it still has room to improve. 
LOL 
anti MOFSET propaganda
Guys this is not Black Flat it is White Flat… Seems like that Osram added something like wire or two to improve properties.
I see no problem in using it in FET DD setup but of course with low current cell .
And Barkuti. I vote for MOFSET DD Setup with Sanyo GA 18650 cell :+1:
That configuration will run 5.5A (at 4.2V) > 3.3A(at 3.4V).
New series of Osram seems to be very robust emitters. Soon you’ll see that there are emitters that can pull over 12A without burning led or angry blue 
So yes i vote for FET DD configuration but with low current cell (there are plenty of them on the market). No need for spring bypasses any more, no need for stacking chips, so it is just a cheap - budget configuration at the place where Frugal meets flashlights 
Nothing against linear or buck/boost drivers also. Just bring them on…
After all I use linear driver as a host for my nice little diy 1.5$ Djozz driver. Some guys like regulation while some really don’t have any need for that. 
Barkuti this pic is just for you (I am preparing whole FET driver army )
Hope you will not hate me now :laughing:
Ya, I kinda get the feeling Barkuti sorta doesn’t like MOFSET. :laughing:
It’s not though, the black flat was still better.
Unless you’re talking about how at a constant voltage the XP G2 will draw less current than a white flat and therefore not overheat as quickly resulting in higher performance.
But that’s not really a fair comparison here.
You’re basically letting one LED overheat and not the other.
The great thing about low Vf is that you can drive it at it’s peak performance for extended periods of time using a regulated driver instead of an inconsistent dim, bright, and dim that DD would give with an increased risk of killing the LED.
There’s really no reason to do DD anymore. Drivers that can supply more current than necessary already exist.
Ok granted I was being a bit unfair heat-wise in that it can take ‘sloppy’ abuse better for higher extended performance. BTW so the Black Flat can take DD generated heat (abuse) better than the XPG2?
Well, if that isn’t some backwards thinking, I don’t know what is! But no worries, you’re not the first one, nor will you be the last. :person_facepalming:
To clarify for the folks watching at home: More wattage NEVER means more performance! In the past, emitters HAD to be pushed almost to their breaking point to reach peak output. So, it became a common “shorthand” or a “rule of thumb” to say that more watts means more performance. But, it technically has never been true. These days it’s less true than ever, since the space between the end of the performance peak and the end of the emitter (failure) has widened considerably in lots of cases.
So, to say “Past certain amps the dedomed XPG2 S4 2B today is still King IMO.” is to show a misunderstanding of how this works. Did you not see that it was said that the “White Flat” will out-perform the dedomed XPG2 S4 2B while pulling about 2A LESS? Who wouldn’t want that? Great performance PLUS better run time! Sounds like a winner to me! 
:+1:
Once again, in case you missed it, the dedomed XPG2 S4 2B REQUIRES more wattage than the “White Flat” in order to perform, and yet it still doesn’t perform as well when compared to the peak performance of the “White Flat”. The reason it MAY perform better at high wattage in a DD setup is because the “White Flat” is losing performance by that point.
About those DD drivers too: The reason they were developed years ago and became so popular is again BECAUSE the emitters had to have high wattage in order to perform at their “best”. Now that more emitters are being introduced with peak performance well BELOW peak wattage, I predict that DD FET drivers will lose popularity. It won’t happen because of the crusades of a few Anti-FET members, but because most of us aren’t looking to idolize FET the way we’re being accused of in the first place. We just want max performance. And if we can have better run time as well, we won’t hesitate to throw DD FET drivers off a cliff in order to reach for the next thing. :innocent:
Yes I am referring to ‘abuse’ performance not efficiency performance. It performs better when 1:1 abused (direct driven) particularly with higher current type batts such as the 30Q.
Never meant nor intentionally implied that more watts equals more (better) performance.
Many LEDs will continue to be FET abused for the near future until all of us become Barkutified Enlightened and the Osram KW mentality goes modder mainstream. I agree with you on the trend going that way though. LEP efficiency technology alone will further reinforce it.
Barkuti is right. We prolly need to start Seeing the Light better. :laughing:
Ah yes… Carry on then!
Performance and runtime of white flat in fet dd setup is better than same configuration with old xpg2s42b. You will have more than 20 minutes of super thrower performance in your single 18650 setup, and this new emitter is not black flat is white flat so it is better than his black brother and can withstand some serious abuse and current at which old xpg2s42b would explode… I am abusing that emitter for one full month and it still did not die. Still same performance…
So will fet dd config die? I don’t think so… Wouldn’t be nice to have it regulated? Yes why not? Should you affraid of 5.5A current draw on White Flat? Absolutely not. It can safely survive even more than 7A for extended periods of time well at least my re flowed version…
Now one example. Scientist guys please read consideration of just regular diy redneck guy like myself… Talking about single cell 18650 flashlights and defending old FET DD technology :laughing:
Regulated driver set at 5.5 A current draw vs FET DD driver at mentioned 5.5A (at 4.2V) > 3.3A(at 3.4V).
FET dd has 5.5A performance for about minute than it drops to 5.4A, after minute to 5.3A, after minute to 5.2A etc… In other way it does not stay in regulation. But! Since White Flat is like viagra it has very constant lux performance from 5.5A to 3.5A. We will not feel any significant visual performance drop and flashlight will generate heat proportionally to amperage draw from cell. In other way flashlight will actually become cooler as performance falls. FET driver does not generates heat right?
Regulated linear with constant performance set at 5.5 A. No argue that it will give maximum and more constant performance. But! Whole rig generates far more heat than FET DD setup. Regulated linear driver generates a lot of heat as far as I know right? That means once when flashlight host reach maximum heat absorption potential it will really start to cook the led itself… And not only LED all components on linear driver will suffer.
FET DD driver actually cools itself while Regulated linear cooks itself!
So FET DD lets us to feel maximum performance of led emitter, generates heat proportionally to amperage draw from cell so it is quite safe in usage even more safe imho than regulated linear driver in same peak amperage (5.5A for example).
So for single cell 18650 thrower lights I will just say long live FET DD :+1:
any good prices source for Sanyo NCR18650GA ?
Nothing wrong with a MOSFET, it’s DD that’s a bit silly for this LED.
the problem is that most of us are going to change the xpg2 on our flashlights which was with DD drive,i prefer to just change the led keep the drivers and just find better batteries for that setup.
No idea, I never run my LEDs in DD.
You’ll never get peak performance with DD, it either runs at too much current or not enough current.
Ideally the LED operates at the peak of the curve, which is basically impossible to do with DD because battery voltage drops so quickly.
And if you run it where the battery voltage is fairly stable, ~3.7v, then the initial spike of 4.2v just makes the LED heat up excessively and decreases performance, assuming you don’t instantly kill the LED.
David, send me that quad X6 and I’ll replace the driver so it doesn’t make excess wattage….
Well I guess I’m not clear here then Luminarium. First ya advise to stay away from high current cells like the 30Q and then here ya say it can take more abuse (current) than the old XPG2.
IDK, sounds to me like the White Flat can take a 30Q afterall with FET DD and there’ll be zero to none problems. :laughing:
Uhh… No thanks! I’m good!
Yeah, there’s one little tiny thing you’ve missed. He said it CAN take the “abuse” of using a DD driver with max amps. But, it will perform BETTER at a lower current, so that’s the recommended set-up.
Ok then if I read things right it performs worse with higher current butt it also depends on how long it’s run at that current. Or no? For shorter burst throw activity do ya really need to use lower current batts? And if not can this be mitigated with anything else to improve thermal paths when reflowing?
To me at least dealing with this lower current batt jazz and this led is a PITA. It’s just another frickin’ thing I’d have to keep track of besides all the other shizen I gotta keep track of with ala in just safely charging batts itself. :laughing:
Oh and if it performs worse with high current batts butt STILL outperforms an abused XPG2 then one is still ahead, right? According to Luminarium it’s not gonna harm the KW hardly at all. So what if I get a bit less performance. Butt that’s just for me. Others want it all all the time, baby.
PS. If I understand Luminarium correctly it can go 20 minutes in Super Thrower mode. Does he mean with lower current batts, apparently so. Butt OTOH can it Super Throw for 5 mins with a 30Q, that I’m not sure of. Hell I rarely go longer than 2 mins on Super Throw mode with anything I own. I got neighbors ya know. :laughing:
Anybody know temp colour in Kelvin for this led?