AliExpress....PROTECT YOURSELF....A BLF Public Service.....

A lot guys have problems with overseas sellers. So Paypal protection is A MUST.

On related note. Check out my post about similar issues with Banggood.

I have been ripped off by Aliexpress sellers several times an they almost never get me ANY KIND ofrefund. If they find in my favor, only returns are offered. Shipping from California USA to China is extremely costly and they know it.
I vowed never to give them another $0.10 of my money.
If you insist on gambling with them, buyer beware and use PayPal only!

On the other hand, Banggood and Gearbest are usually very legitimate and their prices are nearly as good.

Some sellers have a very good understanding of the terms in the User Agreement and they are well aware of how to navigate the system

Beware , sometimes Ali sellers will told you to cancel and offers to refund me through PayPal. He then refund as a “goods and services”, after you close dispute will open a case ON YOU for services not delivered.

Once a dispute is closed it can’t be reopened. Next he sends you money as “goods and services” - from PayPal’s perspective - this would appear as you are the seller. The sender then opens a dispute against you claiming what he paid for was not delivered. PayPal then refunds his money - it’s a scam but, it uses the policies in place to protect you against you.

IMO this BS though it’s been around a long time is getting more unsustainable. Enough people eventually pack up their wallets, then they go buy elsewhere, and this business model of jacking over the customer goes down the toilet.

More word gets out to stay away and soon enough there’ll be no AliExpress because something better will replace it. They can’t grow if these type of scams continue unabated.

A big crackdown is needed.

The more the word gets out and more impact is made financially, the more likely they will remedy their shady business practices like: peddling fakes, advertisement and horrendous customer service. literally, Aliexpress guarantees mean nothing.
BTW, A lot of people here are members of other light forums such as CPF, Techlampen, etc…

Another type SCAM which I personally experienced…………

Say you order 3 Pieces 18650 size flashlights with their car chargers, AC chargers and battery adapters.

Yellow interior bubbled typical E-Package arrives to you. White shipping labels attached with all the info typed clearly. Yellow package is SMALL. About 6” x 6”.

Only ONE flashlight plus chargers and adapter is inside this dinky envelope. Better way of putting, it’s STUFFED in there. Quantity on shipping label shows 3 Pieces. Weight is stated as 0.007Kg. Why, that’s awfully light for a supposed total of three lights, plus accessories, right? Well, yes it is Ms. Seller. And kisses emojis right back at ya.

You ordered and paid for Quantity 3 Pieces. You ask Seller where are the other 2
Flashlights, etc.?

Seller then sez, you have already received entire order on XYZ date. “See Logistics Information show delivered”. :open_mouth:

You open dispute proceedings because you already KNOW where this Seller is heading.

BIG ADVICE:

ALWAYS keep the shipping envelope/package and its labels intact. Don’t tear up the package getting it open. Then ALWAYS take a photo of what you actually received along with packaging clearly next to it. Put a ruler at the bottom when ya take the pic. Then place the original contents into the top of the envelope so it demonstrates what was shipped to you in that packaging.

You get the general drift.

I have had many large and small orders from Ali all with great experience.

Only one time did I make a order and a piece was missing, they refunded the entire order. Only $15 but they said keep the other items.

I will keep shopping with them.

I’ve noticed lately that a lot of items aren’t getting through.
My Monthly account for last 2 months (64 days) shows 9 items.
Usual shipping is around 26 to 32 days.
So far. only 3 items arrived. They took the money though, over $185 so far.
With EVERYTHING going through PayPal only.
I’ve stopped ALL China buying till this lot is sorted out.

Fishing gear etc still going well though.
Some reels and Custom jig rods are near and over $1000 each. Japan. US and Malaysia.
Never had any problems with them. SO Far.
It seems only the China syndrome is at fault so far.
Too Many. Too Cheap. it had to stop and be charged for at some time.
The volume is massive. NOTHING is free for long.

Well, I’m letting the AliExpress dispute process go through its entire cycle from A to Z. I have provided more than plenty of hard evidence supporting the Seller’s underhanded shenanigans.

This is a BLATANT black and white fraud case. 110% blatant fraud.

So, if the AliExpress dispute “Buyer Protection/Guarantee” system doesn’t force the thieving Seller to refund the balance owed me then I will let you know.

This could be a game changer for me and AliExpress.

Two orders from Aliexpress from different sellers, both were problems. I got fake merchandise from one seller and a bad tracking number from the other. The one with the bad tracking number showed the order was shipped to a city about 400 miles away from me. The seller eventually shipped replacements after I opened a dispute and long after the trip I needed the items for and after the “guaranteed delivery or your money back” date. Ali just left the dispute open until the replacement package was delivered.

I’ve been ordering from Banggood and Gearbest for years and have had a few issues, but they were quickly resolved.

Two issues…

First, ordered 2 lasers, only 1 came in the envelope. Took video of myself actually opening the envelope (didn’t even need it, thankfully). Felt skinny, sure enough, only 1 in there. Laser which did come had a wonky switch, needed to practically push the button hard into the body itself to get even a flicker. Contacted the seller.

“Whups, sorry, new guy packing, made mistakes, you’re not the only one. And we’ll send you another laser to replace the bad one.” And they did! 2 new ones came in, absolutely perfect.

No problem buying from them again.

Second, ordered usb-charger boards (stamp-sized), 11 with usb socket, 11 without. Only got 10 and 10. Maybe 50¢ each, so only lost a buk tops, but on principle I brought it to their attention. No answer. Again, got a “blah blah blah Ginger” response. Said I have video of me opening the envelope, but AX has no way to upload vid, just pix. Asked them if they had another way to get the video to them. Silence.

Just didn’t confirm receipt, thinking payment won’t/wouldn’t be released ’til I do. Nope, nothing. Might still have time for a “very very disappointed…” review.

And I shall not talk about buying battery cells there, it's a FFF: Freaking Falsehood Feast.

This does not mean you can't purchase good cells there, but watch out. Aiming for the least common denominator may be wise. I mean, cannot fail if you expect some regular and decent quality BAK or other chinese OEM cells.

Cheers :-)

P.S.: maybe we could bring the attention of some inland reputable seller like Simon to chat about these issues here.

I recognise that there are problems sometimes, but they are exceedingly rare.
After 200 orders and 14 disputes I’m yet to be disappointed with Ali itself (as opposed to the sellers) and I am unwilling to pay a cent extra to do it via PP. But I do take care from what store order.

I am huge AE fan, but I also believe that roughly 7% is a pretty high defect rate. it is not that the buyer protection doesn’t work, it is more about that orders from AE seem to have more trouble of getting through than from other sources?

:question:

Did you truly mean ’exceedingly rare’ equates to a 7% dispute rate ?

Because to me at least ‘exceedingly rare’ would be something in the order of .007.

Now as far as Ali resolving those disputes they may eventually do things right in your experience (I suspect that’s how you got to ‘exceedingly rare’) but to be very frank here it SHOULDN’T EVEN GET to dispute mode to BEGIN WITH.

IMO the SELLERS ARE AliExpress. That’s what ultimately AliExpress IS all about. SELLING THINGS. If they don’t get that part right with their customers, then why would I want to give their endorsed Sellers MORE OF MY BUSINESS?

Disputes are time consuming.

Do I get reimbursed for my time dealing with Seller BS? Who wants the hassles?

Of course why answer a rhetorical question.

We both posted simultaneously the same incredulous observation. :laughing:

Anyhow…….AliExpress says this on its main page……….

“SHOP WITH CONFIDENCE”

What I’m starting to wonder though if it’s moreso becoming…….

“SHOP AND GAMBLE WITH CONFIDENT CONMEN”

:laughing: :open_mouth:

I have had more disputes/issues with Amazon than Aliexpress in the past year.

With Amazon I have had 4 orders get in transit then never show. Send me completely incorrect items. And 2 completely damaged boxed items during shipping. Also a lot of a dozen bad batteries. Total about 15 disputes with Amazon with 2 having no end. Amazon retailers will refund your money and let you keep the product if you give them a 5 star review(sic).

Walmart is picking up their online inventory, so I’m shopping less with Amazon.

With AliExpress, it’s smooth when everything is ok. I’ve spent quite a lot with my purchases there. Usually it takes a long time for anything to arrive, but no problem here. When there was a problem, that I received less items than ordered or something was not working, dispute process worked fine. Just never give feedback when you confirm, you’ve received the package. Low star feedback is your strong possible argument in their eyes.

Unfortunately, it has a few holes in their rules. One being that when your order is solved by dispute, (partial) refund or automatic cancellation, you can’t provide feedback and in that case, they (sellers) don’t care at all. Another problem is that right now, customer support is nonexistent. A long time ago, you could send them an email. They have (had) two email addresses, one is undeliverable as no longer exists, the other one does not accept emails either because it’s full. This was bad, but they still had online customer support. This was taken over by bots completely. If you have simple problem, it can help you (it’s more like explaining what you should do, it won’t really help you if you need help). For more complex situation, that can’t be solved with pushing a few buttons, you can’t contact them.

Lately, I had my first bad experience on AliExpress with one seller “”“Elfeland Outdoor Lighting Store”“”. I’ve ordered a flashlight (ThoreFire). After some time, I got a message that they have only last one, that does not work and they can’t get another one, so asked me to cancel the order with reason “other”. I was curious why I should cancel order (it’s in fact a “proposal” to cancel order, other side has to accept it), why don’t they cancel it themself. I suspected that it has probably something to do with seller point system that they don’t want to be affected by not fulfilling the order and that I should be the one who requested it. After checking the cancellation proposal form, there was also a reason “out of stock”, so I’ve used that. Next, they rejected the proposal and sent me a message that I have to change the reason to other. I replied that they don’t have that flashlight to ship, their supplier does not have it, so out of stock is correct reason, I won’t change it and if they want, they can cancel that themselfs. They said that they can’t cancel it (I can’t believe that) and that if I want my money back, I must change reason to other. Again, I’ve refused to change it and be the bad guy (business partner) instead of them (from AE system’s point of view) and told them, that if they don’t want to cancel it, it will be canceled automatically soon. I was confident with how processes on AE works. (For those, who don’t know, seller has a few days processing time and if the time expires and your order is not shipped, it is cancelled automatically and you get your money back.) To my surprise, just before this processing time expired, my order was marked as shipped together with tracking number. I was curious, if they sent the broken flashlight or what will happen, because I have a message (proof) where they said that they have only one that does not work. But, after a few days, the tracking number said that it is still “waiting for pickup” which means that they just printed a label (which I guess does not cost them anything) and never sent anything. It’s ± 6 weeks already and it still says waiting for pickup. So, I’m now waiting for delivery time expiration after which I open dispute and get my money back (I still hope that dispute process works). After dispute process, I won’t be able to provide any feedback and seller’s history will be perfectly clean with all five stars reviews. In a big shopping site with tons of sellers, bad seller can happen, so I was not that much worried about it. What did disappoint me is that after this, that bad seller reliability and feedback score is unaffected and he can continue with this behavior. That’s why I tried quite hard to find any contact on AE support, because I was curious how would AE react as such seller damages their name and business. If this was my first purchase on AE, it’d be my last one and I’d never shop there ever again, but I can’t contact them.

TL;DR beware as there is no real customer support on AE except bots and beware of “”“Elfeland Outdoor Lighting Store”“” it’s the worst seller I met on AliExpress so far.

I find legitimate but failed disputes to be exceedingly rare. My personal rate is 0, though there are less lucky people. Batteries turned out to be problematic and since I saw the issues I almost stopped buying them from all stores except from those run by reliable rewrappers (for now: only Vapcell and Shockli).
Disputes are a hassle. They are time consuming. You have just as many of them regardless of whether you use PayPal or Ali protection.

Great write up, mihlit. Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain in great detail what’s really going over at Ali.

The main problems stem IMO from essentially this inherent situation……

“Unfortunately, it has a few holes in their rules.”

The biggest hole/canyon of them all IMO is the lack of negative feedback avenues available to the consumer to rate a Seller that basically is in the business of thievery. It appears any such thieving Seller is given a free pass to continue theft and fraudulent practices.

What kind of a viable business model is this that can support an enterprise to grow?

UNBELIEVABLE.

No wonder the “Shop With Confidence” mantra at AliExpress in reality is utter BS beneath all the words-are-cheap gloss.

In business ultimately actions speak louder than words.

And here’s a prime example where actions are telling me it’s time to cut my risks and find other sources for what I need.

Who needs this BS?

PS. AliExpress fundamentally needs to follow the eBay model regarding rating their Sellers.

Those that perform for the CUSTOMER, stay. Those that DON’T, go.