There is approx 0% chance you will ever find another optic to fit. The DQG Tiny 26650 is around the same size but clearly has different legs. Not really room to increase the TIR without making the head closer to 39-40mm, at least for brand name optics.
Im hoping FF can tell us which Optic they are using or show us a compatible optic with bigger TIR cups for more throw. Im imagining a focuswd 5000 lumens beam with 200kcd throw using the White Flats
You’re unlikely to find a throwier alternative that would be compatible. That’s because larger cups = higher cups. Maybe with a bezel not fully screwed in…
I will personally hold back from purchasing unless FF posts throw and lumens info for each emitter option.
I have a feeling the D4S will throw better due to larger TIR.
It’s larger and 12 degree spot vs 25 degree from this one. In addition, since it’s only 4 LEDs each LED will be driven harder so of course it will throw better. A 7 LED single cell light is not designed to be a good thrower, ever.
Right contactcr, it’s not an even comparison… different beasts.
I have yet to see an TIR optic that actually throws anyway. Certainly not one with multiples that utilize small individual TIR’s. I’ve even used 60mm single TIR’s and they don’t have the concentrated hot spot in my experience. So a 9mm to 14mm TIR is surely going to be at a disadvantage.
Wider TIR’s will throw off the center point, so if an optic has the same 35mm diameter and same number of emitters with wider optics they will be on a differenter center almost assuredly. Not necessarily taller, they build em all kinds of ways, but wider shifts the center, can’t help it.
I think I’m going to hold on as well. I was expecting it to challange D4S in the throw department while being more suited for EDC. Don’t really have use for such flood light, especially having PL47 (hopefully soon )
Makes sense that it will be more floody than the D4S, but it would be nice to know by how much. Knowing the throw and output of each emitter will also help decide between options available.
Regarding TIR, I think the technology is changing and soon we will see TIR optics able to outhrow larger TIR’s from older generations.
There are 3 degrees TIR optics but they are in the 35mm width. If this 7xLED TIR can come in options between 25 degrees or say 15 degrees, I still wouldn’t call it a thrower but it may be more desirable for someone who wants a more general purpose light. My M43 TIR optics still have a noticeable beam with some throw compared to other flooder lights.
I don’t know exactly what technology it might be, but people are constantly inventing and implementing new tech that might complement the physics of the TIR optic. Possibly a new coating, new material, or completely new design that was never thought of before. I see constant improvement in photographic lenses that are smaller, sharper, distort less, etc etc. Changes might not be drastic, but I am open to incremental.
Bringing things back to the E07, I am still excited about this light and keen to see first hand reviews.
Comparing the performance of the XP-E emitter in these two optics, the LLC49U has a FWHM beam angle of 3.1deg and efficacy (cd/lm) of 192.8, whereas the LLC49R has a FWHM of 4.0 and efficacy of 142.7.
Even if the throw is the same as a reflector light, the collimator puts the wasted spill to good use resulting in a larger and brighter hotspot. I might be wrong but I heard more than 1/2 of the output in a reflector light is wasted as spill. Without the glare from the upfront spill causing our pupils to contract or the light refraction interfering with out visibility, we can see further with a collimator optic.
I would love a 10 degree optics in this thing, then throw in some white flats.
Just as with reflectors and aspheric lenses, the ‘angle’ of a TIR is a function of die size of the led and diameter of the TIR. If a clear TIR without frosting or other type of diffusor is used, you will not be able to decrease the angle further by some design change of the TIR, you need either to increase the diameter of the TIR or use a led with smaller die. That is what I was telling, physics does not do magic.
Throw is a function of collimation, diameter of the reflector/optic is key, as is depth (regardless of the arguments presented) I built a light using a proto reflector that is 124mm dia and 114mm deep for well over a mile in throw, at well over a million candela. To make an optic do this would be weight prohibitive, large solid “plastic” optics are very heavy. There are formula’s for achieving optimum results and depth still plays a crucial role in allowing the dia to also come into play. The volume of serious throw reflectors is quite large, just look at the GT as an example… and all the other lights that have come on board with similar output or better.
I have put a 35mm TIR in an Eagle Eye X6 to good effect, not really better throw than the stock reflector but a different beam profile anyway. And yes, it’s noticeably heavier than the aluminum reflector. But to the point here, marginally larger diameter TIR’s in a 35mm overall optic won’t allow all that much better throw, the individual TIR’s are just too small.
The E07 is less throwy than the D4S. I don’t know what the total lumens or total candelas will be, but it’s guaranteed that it’ll have a lower cd/lm ratio than the D4S, and that ratio determines how throwy a light is.
If I recall correctly, the D4S with XP-L HI gets about 9 cd/lm. This is toward the throwy end of a general-purpose light, not throwy enough to be considered a thrower. The E07 looks like it’ll probably get more like 2 to 4 cd/lm, which makes it quite floody. This is roughly the same type of beam as an Emisar D4, Astrolux S41, or a tube light Carclo triple… but with more lumens at the high end.
The blue and pink aux-leds look way too disco to me, the E07 is an elegant light, IMO it would suit faint single-colour aux-leds best, my favorite would be 650nm deep red
This is the problem of stock lights you are pretty much bound mostly to one type of aux board color combination
But you can simply solder 12 red on it if you like
If I recall correctly, the D4S with XP-L HI gets about 9 cd/lm. This is toward the throwy end of a general-purpose light, not throwy enough to be considered a thrower. The E07 looks like it’ll probably get more like 2 to 4 cd/lm, which makes it quite floody. This is roughly the same type of beam as an Emisar D4, Astrolux S41, or a tube light Carclo triple… but with more lumens at the high end.
Yes. Agro said yesterday in this thread that the diameter of the TIR is 9mm. This is the same as the D4, so the E07 should have a similar collimation. Assuming the same beam profile and an output of 6.5klm it should have about 350m of throw.
Comparing the performance of the XP-E emitter in these two optics, the LLC49U has a FWHM beam angle of 3.1deg and efficacy (cd/lm) of 192.8, whereas the LLC49R has a FWHM of 4.0 and efficacy of 142.7.
Even if the throw is the same as a reflector light, the collimator puts the wasted spill to good use resulting in a larger and brighter hotspot. I might be wrong but I heard more than 1/2 of the output in a reflector light is wasted as spill. Without the glare from the upfront spill causing our pupils to contract or the light refraction interfering with out visibility, we can see further with a collimator optic.
TBH I don’t see any “invention” in that TIR. I may be missing something, but if it exists I’m pretty sure it’s something of trivial importance.
It’s just that they decided to do an U optics in that size.
There is innovation going on in lenses, Fenix E16 shows some. Fresnel TIRs appeared several years ago. Zooming TIRs are now built with moving lenslet arrays. But none of these improves throw and I would be surprised to see an invention that does.
Reflectors leave about 1/3 as spill. In some lights it’s wasted, in some its essential part of the beam. When I walk I often direct a modest thrower forward and use the spill to see the ground at my feet.
The aux LED’s light up similar to a lighted side switch, there are L-H-Off modes. I know that in Anduril you can have the aux LED’s on or off when in lockout, on or off when in standby, and with low or high output levels.
I haven’t left any of my IOS Ramping lights stock much beyond the day they arrived here, Anduril for me…
I can’t actually give any good answers about the aux LEDs until I test one in person. The reasons are because earlier lights have used aux LED boards which aren’t compatible with the low mode, and because earlier lights had the aux LEDs soldered in an always-on position.
So… I hope these are both fixed now, but I think it’s likely that only the always-on thing is fixed. In that case, it would have high and off, but no low mode.
I have to ask, but is there a coupon code coming out in the future?
Some time ago I searched….there are many TIRs around 35 mm, they are used to make MR16 light bulbs. I don’t have any notes, but a quick search finds a few:
https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&S...
Im hoping FF can tell us which Optic they are using or show us a compatible optic with bigger TIR cups for more throw. Im imagining a focuswd 5000 lumens beam with 200kcd throw using the White Flats
You’re unlikely to find a throwier alternative that would be compatible. That’s because larger cups = higher cups. Maybe with a bezel not fully screwed in…
https://m.alibaba.com/product/60729280709/LED-module-lens-7-in-1.html?sp...
This looks similar and claims to have 10,15,20 degree.
^ it is a bit different but not that much. It could fit though…
link to djozz tests
I will personally hold back from purchasing unless FF posts throw and lumens info for each emitter option.
I have a feeling the D4S will throw better due to larger TIR.
D4S will throw better with the same LEDs, that’s certain.
It’s larger and 12 degree spot vs 25 degree from this one. In addition, since it’s only 4 LEDs each LED will be driven harder so of course it will throw better. A 7 LED single cell light is not designed to be a good thrower, ever.
Right contactcr, it’s not an even comparison… different beasts.
I have yet to see an TIR optic that actually throws anyway. Certainly not one with multiples that utilize small individual TIR’s. I’ve even used 60mm single TIR’s and they don’t have the concentrated hot spot in my experience. So a 9mm to 14mm TIR is surely going to be at a disadvantage.
Wider TIR’s will throw off the center point, so if an optic has the same 35mm diameter and same number of emitters with wider optics they will be on a differenter center almost assuredly. Not necessarily taller, they build em all kinds of ways, but wider shifts the center, can’t help it.
I’m curious about this too.
I think I’m going to hold on as well. I was expecting it to challange D4S in the throw department while being more suited for EDC. Don’t really have use for such flood light, especially having PL47 (hopefully soon
)
Makes sense that it will be more floody than the D4S, but it would be nice to know by how much. Knowing the throw and output of each emitter will also help decide between options available.
Regarding TIR, I think the technology is changing and soon we will see TIR optics able to outhrow larger TIR’s from older generations.
There are 3 degrees TIR optics but they are in the 35mm width. If this 7xLED TIR can come in options between 25 degrees or say 15 degrees, I still wouldn’t call it a thrower but it may be more desirable for someone who wants a more general purpose light. My M43 TIR optics still have a noticeable beam with some throw compared to other flooder lights.
I don’t see what technology would change TIRs drastically, you can not make optics escape the rules of physics.
link to djozz tests
I don’t know exactly what technology it might be, but people are constantly inventing and implementing new tech that might complement the physics of the TIR optic. Possibly a new coating, new material, or completely new design that was never thought of before. I see constant improvement in photographic lenses that are smaller, sharper, distort less, etc etc. Changes might not be drastic, but I am open to incremental.
Bringing things back to the E07, I am still excited about this light and keen to see first hand reviews.
If we can get a 10 degree on this thing, it should be able to out throw the D4S. That would be sweet!
I would love a 10 degree optics in this thing, then throw in some white flats.
I found some pretty interesting optics that I wish I had the skills and ability to make a host for. The LLC49R Narrow Beam Collimator in this test looks pretty impressive.
http://www.lednlight.fr/downloads_lnl/lednlight_en_OSRAM_OSLON.pdf
They have then released the newer LLC49U Ultra Narrow Beam Collimator.
Comparing the performance of the XP-E emitter in these two optics, the LLC49U has a FWHM beam angle of 3.1deg and efficacy (cd/lm) of 192.8, whereas the LLC49R has a FWHM of 4.0 and efficacy of 142.7.
Even if the throw is the same as a reflector light, the collimator puts the wasted spill to good use resulting in a larger and brighter hotspot. I might be wrong but I heard more than 1/2 of the output in a reflector light is wasted as spill. Without the glare from the upfront spill causing our pupils to contract or the light refraction interfering with out visibility, we can see further with a collimator optic.
Just as with reflectors and aspheric lenses, the ‘angle’ of a TIR is a function of die size of the led and diameter of the TIR. If a clear TIR without frosting or other type of diffusor is used, you will not be able to decrease the angle further by some design change of the TIR, you need either to increase the diameter of the TIR or use a led with smaller die. That is what I was telling, physics does not do magic.
link to djozz tests
Either way, you can fit larger optics in that head.
Throw is a function of collimation, diameter of the reflector/optic is key, as is depth (regardless of the arguments presented) I built a light using a proto reflector that is 124mm dia and 114mm deep for well over a mile in throw, at well over a million candela. To make an optic do this would be weight prohibitive, large solid “plastic” optics are very heavy. There are formula’s for achieving optimum results and depth still plays a crucial role in allowing the dia to also come into play. The volume of serious throw reflectors is quite large, just look at the GT as an example… and all the other lights that have come on board with similar output or better.
I have put a 35mm TIR in an Eagle Eye X6 to good effect, not really better throw than the stock reflector but a different beam profile anyway. And yes, it’s noticeably heavier than the aluminum reflector. But to the point here, marginally larger diameter TIR’s in a 35mm overall optic won’t allow all that much better throw, the individual TIR’s are just too small.
The E07 is less throwy than the D4S. I don’t know what the total lumens or total candelas will be, but it’s guaranteed that it’ll have a lower cd/lm ratio than the D4S, and that ratio determines how throwy a light is.
If I recall correctly, the D4S with XP-L HI gets about 9 cd/lm. This is toward the throwy end of a general-purpose light, not throwy enough to be considered a thrower. The E07 looks like it’ll probably get more like 2 to 4 cd/lm, which makes it quite floody. This is roughly the same type of beam as an Emisar D4, Astrolux S41, or a tube light Carclo triple… but with more lumens at the high end.
This is the problem of stock lights you are pretty much bound mostly to one type of aux board color combination
But you can simply solder 12 red on it if you like
[Reviews] Miboxer C4-12, C2-4k+6k, C2, C4 / Astrolux K1, MF01, MF02, S42, K01, TI3A / BLF Q8 / Kalrus G35, XT11GT / Nitefox UT20 / Niwalker BK-FA30S / Sofirn SF36, SP35 / Imalent DM21TW / Wuben I333 / Ravemen PR1200 / CL06 lantern / Xanes headlamp
[Mods] Skilhunt H03 short / Klarus XT11GT, XT12GTS / Zebralight SC50+ / Imalent DM21TW / colorful anodisation
[Sale] TA based drivers NarsilM or Bistro OTSM 17-22mm, S42, L6, Q8, MF01, SRK, TN42 / Narsil based buck driver for 20-30mm MF01/02, TN40/42, GT, MT09R / Remote switch tail DD board with FET
Yes. Agro said yesterday in this thread that the diameter of the TIR is 9mm. This is the same as the D4, so the E07 should have a similar collimation. Assuming the same beam profile and an output of 6.5klm it should have about 350m of throw.
TBH I don’t see any “invention” in that TIR. I may be missing something, but if it exists I’m pretty sure it’s something of trivial importance.
It’s just that they decided to do an U optics in that size.
There is innovation going on in lenses, Fenix E16 shows some. Fresnel TIRs appeared several years ago. Zooming TIRs are now built with moving lenslet arrays. But none of these improves throw and I would be surprised to see an invention that does.
Reflectors leave about 1/3 as spill. In some lights it’s wasted, in some its essential part of the beam. When I walk I often direct a modest thrower forward and use the spill to see the ground at my feet.
FF,
There’s no option to order the clear ano in the page, it’s only listed as an alternative further down.
Maybe it’s on purpose, I’m just reporting it in case it’s not.
Why is it desert yellow instead of champagne?
I have the other two Fireflies torches in Champagne.
Nokoff..still Made in China 山寨主義
sorry if this has been addressed before:
could someone please explain the aux LEDs? Do these stay on continuously? Go on when the light is off? How many of these LEDs are there? Thank you!
The aux LED’s light up similar to a lighted side switch, there are L-H-Off modes. I know that in Anduril you can have the aux LED’s on or off when in lockout, on or off when in standby, and with low or high output levels.
I haven’t left any of my IOS Ramping lights stock much beyond the day they arrived here, Anduril for me…
I can’t actually give any good answers about the aux LEDs until I test one in person. The reasons are because earlier lights have used aux LED boards which aren’t compatible with the low mode, and because earlier lights had the aux LEDs soldered in an always-on position.
So… I hope these are both fixed now, but I think it’s likely that only the always-on thing is fixed. In that case, it would have high and off, but no low mode.
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