FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight

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MascaratumB
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BlueSwordM wrote:
No, from a technical Digikey agent directly Big Smile

Yeah, I realized that Silly I was just talking about the interaction with LT in order not to “double” the works or something about these LEDs! Wink
I mean, if it is LT that will produce the light, it will be good for them to have the LEDs, but it may be cautious to put the companies in contact to deal about it! Just thinking on this Wink
And that’s for the initiative Wink

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 MY GIVEAWAY (FW3A)

BlueSwordM
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Of course I will send a message to Neal/Lumintop.

I just want to know if they’re available to order.

I’ll send Digikey’s quote department an email as mentioned in the transcript, and hopefully, we’ll see a message from them Monday.

It would be so nice if we could order a T1-T3 bin though. Right on the edge of 4000k, and way below the BBL Big Smile

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Of course I will send a message to Neal/Lumintop.

I just want to know if they’re available to order.

I’ll send Digikey’s quote department an email as mentioned in the transcript, and hopefully, we’ll see a message from them Monday.

It would be so nice if we could order a T1-T3 bin though. Right on the edge of 4000k, and way below the BBL Big Smile


I personally would prefer 4500K – 5000K range and barely below the BBL! Big Smile

But pay no attention to me. I’m still not on the list. Facepalm

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
-Ayn Rand

BlueSwordM
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Not really possible, unless we use tint mixing in the FW3A with 1×4000k and 2× 5000k.

I don’t want to hype myself too much. I’ve seen what an LH351D looks like, and from the looks of it, it’s a T6/T7 bin from the AEDe GB. So looking good above 1 amp, but slightly above the BBL at that level.

What I want is a rosy type T1-T2 bin, close to 4000-4300k rather than 3900-4000k. That would be amazing Big Smile

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djozz
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Well below the BBL could imply more than one output bin lower though (just to have it mentioned, I’m all for sacrifying output for tint)

Tom Tom
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BlueSwordM, well done for trying, and I hope it ends in a result.

If LT had buyers worth anything (I’m sure they do, but maybe have not been directed yet) then this would have been sorted long ago. The plaintive request from “N” for help here was a big warning sign.

But really, what is going on here ? Asleep at the wheel doesn’t begin to describe it.

The principal should liven up, get a grip, or gently say goodbye and pass it on to those who can, and want, to do it.

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DB Custom wrote:
Makes no sense …

I don’t really get it either. I’ve mostly had to piece together the early days of the project based on what was left behind, and that bead-blasted one seems to be the oldest FW3A prototype.

At risk of quoting Clerks, “I’m not even supposed to be here today!” Or, um, I wasn’t planning on running the project, and wasn’t even involved early on. Everyone else just kinda … left. So it’s all been a bit of a mess, a mystery at times.

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ToyKeeper wrote:

At risk of quoting Clerks, “I’m not even supposed to be here today!”

Watch out...

You might be getting fired!  :P

(It's a movie reference.)

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Cobra502 wrote:
How will the purchase of these lights go?

If I understand correctly, the process is something like this:

  1. Private forum messages get sent to everyone on the interest list.
  2. Click the link in the message.
  3. Order what you want through Neal’s shop.
  4. Payment is probably via Paypal, I think.

The plan is to make 50% of the lights with XP-L HI 3D, and 50% with LH351D 4000K 90CRI. But the LH351D might happen a few weeks later because nobody seems to have it in a good tint bin and it’ll need to be ordered from the manufacturer.

A lot of the details are still being worked out. However, if things happen in batches, as has happened on some earlier projects, there will need to be some way of deciding who gets to order one and who has to wait. It’ll probably be the lowest numbers first, as in, the people who requested one earlier can order sooner. That’s part of why I went through the entire thread history to properly sort and link each request, to make sure nobody is missed and they’re in the correct order.

That’s only the BLF list though, and I don’t know how things will be handled on TLF. If someone there could put a timestamp on each request, I could do the same on the BLF list, and they could be merged into one.

About when shipping can happen, I really don’t know. Hopefully very soon, but that depends mostly on what Neal and Lumintop can arrange, and I don’t know much about what’s going on there. Really, the rest of the process mostly depends on Neal. So I hope that will go smoother than the GT project did. He has had a year to improve his infrastructure.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Of course I will send a message to Neal/Lumintop.

Neal is handling the part acquisition, so definitely make sure you’re talking with him. It’d be helpful if I’m Cc’d too, so I know what’s happening.

BlueSwordM
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No problem there too. I’m just currently writing the email to Digikey’s quoting department, so it’s gonna take a bit of time.

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SKV89
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BlueSwordM wrote:

It would be so nice if we could order a T1-T3 bin though. Right on the edge of 4000k, and way below the BBL Big Smile

I dont expect even the T1-T4 bin will be much below the BBL if at all. Samsung bins are not to be trusted. Look at how far above the BBL the T6 and T7 were eventhough they were supposed to be at or below. I would be happy if the T1-T4 is at the BBL. But nevertheless thanks for your hardwork. It’s good news nonetheless

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BlueSwordM wrote:
What I want is a rosy type T1-T2 bin, close to 4000-4300k rather than 3900-4000k. That would be amazing Big Smile

If it’s a T1/T2 bin, even I might like it. Smile

Based on the poll results, 4500K would be the most popular CCT… if that type of LH351D existed. But since it doesn’t, a T1/T2 is about as close as we can get.

For my personal use though, I’ll probably be pretty happy with XP-L HI 3D. I find it really hits the spot. And I’ll probably mod one to use 219B, eventually.

On a related note, forum member Nite Shadow pinged Nichia about making more 219B emitters in the nice R9080 sw45 bin everyone loves, and it sounds like it’s still possible. However, the minimum order size is 3500 pieces, the price is unknown, and the lead time is at least 3 months. So it’d require a pretty serious buyer. But if we aren’t able to find a newer higher-powered LED with the same nice tint, perhaps more old ones can be sourced.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
This image is what Fritz actually made:

I like the renderings with the tapered tube ends better, but this style could work well with a silicone sleeve to fill in the low spot.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Ok guys, I’m currently speaking with a Digikey technical agent to see if it’s possible to order multiple reels of the LH351D in the T1-T4 bin, or if not available from Samsung, T6-T7.

You shouldn’t have to doing this, but I thank you for it.

All hands to the pumps.

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The message has been sent.

We now wait either a single day, or until Monday/Tuesday perhaps for a great LH351d, even to Toykeeper’s eyes.

I really hope we get the T1/T2 bin Big Smile

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Is it too late to up my qty from 1 to 2 lights total? I would like 1 of each led type.

Thanks for everyone’s hard work.

Cpeng 2x lights total (1 of each tint)

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Tom Tom wrote:
djozz wrote:
Tom Tom wrote:
This could make a good MBA dissertation on how really not to do things, in the wild wild wild wild west (actually East).
You are way too certain about how to do things right (where does that come from?), there is no handbook for this process. People involved just try to respond in a sensible way to each next event and hopefully in the end there is succes (more often than not a BLF-light has become a succes Smile ). Even having been in the process of having a flashlight made in China before does not guarantee that the next time the process will be similar.

Discipline. a British fault, but ingrained. And has worked well, in extremis.

I suppose it is an extreme version of arrogance, but when you really really know that you are correct, well, what should you do ?

As Leo Buscaglia once said,

Those who think they know it all have no way of finding out that they don’t.

SKV89
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ToyKeeper wrote:
On a related note, forum member Nite Shadow pinged Nichia about making more 219B emitters in the nice R9080 sw45 bin everyone loves, and it sounds like it’s still possible. However, the minimum order size is 3500 pieces, the price is unknown, and the lead time is at least 3 months. So it’d require a pretty serious buyer. But if we aren’t able to find a newer higher-powered LED with the same nice tint, perhaps more old ones can be sourced.

I would be more interested in the 219C SM4070E tint bin because the efficiency and output is higher and tint is similar to the 219B 9080 except red rendering is not as good.

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ToyKeeper wrote:

If I understand correctly, the process is something like this:
  1. Private forum messages get sent to everyone on the interest list.
  2. Click the link in the message.
  3. Order what you want through Neal’s shop.
  4. Payment is probably via Paypal, I think.

The plan is to make 50% of the lights with XP-L HI 3D, and 50% with LH351D 4000K 90CRI. But the LH351D might happen a few weeks later because nobody seems to have it in a good tint bin and it’ll need to be ordered from the manufacturer.

A lot of the details are still being worked out. However, if things happen in batches, as has happened on some earlier projects, there will need to be some way of deciding who gets to order one and who has to wait. It’ll probably be the lowest numbers first, as in, the people who requested one earlier can order sooner. That’s part of why I went through the entire thread history to properly sort and link each request, to make sure nobody is missed and they’re in the correct order.

That’s only the BLF list though, and I don’t know how things will be handled on TLF. If someone there could put a timestamp on each request, I could do the same on the BLF list, and they could be merged into one.

About when shipping can happen, I really don’t know. Hopefully very soon, but that depends mostly on what Neal and Lumintop can arrange, and I don’t know much about what’s going on there. Really, the rest of the process mostly depends on Neal. So I hope that will go smoother than the GT project did. He has had a year to improve his infrastructure.


Just some thoughts I had.

We have 166x lights signed up now and it might grow to 1800 lights (1500 people) by the time the orders are ready to be put in. If half will be for the xpl-hi, that’s maybe 900 orders total of that. Assuming the production doesn’t hit any snags, Lumintop can probably build those in 2, maybe 3 weeks. (IIRC they did 400 Q8’s per week)

I suppose you could divide the list into 2 batches so roughly 750 people get the PM with order instructions. That might result in 400 orders. Those can get shipped. Then a week or 2 later do the other 750 people.

Then a week or 2 after that the LH351D version will be ready for orders.

If the same coupon code is used, all 1500 or so people signed up will order the LH351D at once resulting in long waiting. If a new code is created for the LH351D then it can be sent in 2 batches like the xpl-hi version.

This might reduce the time from “Payment to Delivery” which some people are sensitive about.

We could have 90% of all orders done over a 6 to 8 week period, fingers crossed.

It would also be wise to ship an early production version to someone close by who is familiar with Anduril to make sure it’s functioning correctly. Luckily Neal shipped a GT to Steel1024 in Taiwan who found an error in the way Narsil was flashed (I think 2 numbers were swapped by accident). Lumintop was able to reflash all the drivers before shipping and prevented a big problem. Maybe Neal can be shown how Anduril is supposed to function so he can check that the production lights work like their supposed to.

Anyway, just a few thoughts I had. I’m sure you guys will find the best way to do it. Cheers.

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SKV89 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
On a related note, forum member Nite Shadow pinged Nichia about making more 219B emitters in the nice R9080 sw45 bin everyone loves, and it sounds like it’s still possible. However, the minimum order size is 3500 pieces, the price is unknown, and the lead time is at least 3 months. So it’d require a pretty serious buyer. But if we aren’t able to find a newer higher-powered LED with the same nice tint, perhaps more old ones can be sourced.

I would be more interested in the 219C SM4070E tint bin because the efficiency and output is higher and tint is similar to the 219B 9080 except red rendering is not as good.
!https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4413/36743379916_ee1ab5fc23_z.jpg[/img]!


clemence wrote:
djozz wrote:
In other words: they are binned in a different way than before (this was new for Nichia, right?) in this case a segment that is completely below the BBL.
Individual SW403 leds may have the same tint as individual SW4070e leds because there is some overlap. But these may contain very rosy leds too.

Correct Jos, except for the SW (ANSI binning). Only 219B and few other COB Nichias still use ANSI binning, the rest are all using Macadam’s binning (SM).
There’s still lottery involved unless Nichia uses zero steps Macadam LOL . With sm4070e at least everything will be below BBL (better warranty for green haters)


IIRC Clemence mentioned there was/is an extremely high minimum order requirement to go along with the lottery concern, though I agree the sm4070e to be a great option.
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After hearing how the LH351D looks in a TIR triple I absolutely wouldn’t be opposed to another option. When that poll was run the SST-20 wasn’t big like it is now, IDK if those have good tint bins available though.

If we could get 219Cs (or the new LH351C… although its kinda untested) that aren’t super green I’d absolutely be up for that too.

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EnlightenMe wrote:
I like the renderings with the tapered tube ends better, but this style could work well with a silicone sleeve to fill in the low spot.

The low spot is the best place to hold it. It works particularly well between two fingers in a cigarette-style grip, sticking out like a second middle finger. If I put it between my middle and ring fingers, I find I can hold it comfortably while also doing other things with both hands, or even holding something else at the same time.

The raised tail section keeps it from slipping, and the button ends up right where it needs to be for a thumb press.

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JasonWW wrote:
We have 166x lights signed up now and it might grow to 1800 lights …

There are also about 400 lights for TLF, so it’s over 2000 already.

About how to handle messages and possible ordering codes and possible delays, not much is decided.

It might be possible to allow only XP-L HI orders at first, and then send messages out again later when the LH351D is ready. Or maybe Neal’s shop could list and allow orders for both, with a note that the LH351D will ship a few weeks later. That makes some things easier, and makes other things worse. Or hold back everything until both are available. I think it mostly depends on which set of headaches Neal is willing to deal with.

JasonWW wrote:
It would also be wise to ship an early production version to someone close by who is familiar with Anduril to make sure it’s functioning correctly.

I agree that would probably be a good idea. I think that was supposed to be the idea behind proto3, and production was originally supposed to start quite a while ago, but proto3 didn’t result in a lot of useful feedback. So we’re still kind of in limbo.

It’d be nice to get a final sample to test and approve.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
After hearing how the LH351D looks in a TIR triple I absolutely wouldn’t be opposed to another option. When that poll was run the SST-20 wasn’t big like it is now…

Yeah, when the poll happened, the theory was that production would start soon. But then a lot of time passed. It’s probably too late to do another poll, but I definitely wouldn’t mind if more emitter options were available after the initial batches. It might be good to have SST-20 high-CRI options in at least two color temperatures.

… and, personally, I thought the XP-G3 looked fine too. As long as it’s behind a frosted optic like 10511, the rainbow effects go away.

The throwier 10507 optic is popular, but it makes almost every emitter look bad. Meanwhile, the frosted 10511 makes almost every emitter look good, and it can be polished to give more throw if desired.

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The overwhelming consensus seems to be doing the xpl-hi now and do the LH351D later once good tints are procured.

I did not comment on it, but I also prefer doing the xpl-hi first.

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For sure, TK, it would be great to get a final sample to test and approve. I really hope this can happen somehow. We all know how things can get really messy, really quickly, if there are problems with the initial run. The Miller had the patience of a saint dealing with these issues in one group buy, and I doubt anyone else would want to deal with that. I certainly wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I know there were other factors, but I assume dealing with it all contributed to his burn out of group buys, and this forum.

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If we want the very best selected LED SKUs then we have to accept that there is a yield issue.

It’s not as if the manufacturer just twiddles a knob and chooses the tint for that batch.

The concomitant is that once you start cherry-picking the “good” ones, (which itself is costly) the quality of the rest reduces.

If you want only the “best” ones, then that can only be achieved on the back of a much bigger production run. Which requires a market for all the rest. If that isn’t there, then it won’t happen.

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Wow, Tom Tom made a really good post. No sarcasm, no insults, no cockiness, no bragging, etc… Plus it was relevant to the subject at hand.

Nice Thumbs Up

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JasonWW wrote:
Wow, Tom Tom made a really good post. No sarcasm, no insults, no cockiness, no bragging, etc... Plus it was relevant to the subject at hand. Nice :THUMBS-UP:

And short.

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