E07 or D4S?

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sp5it
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E07 or D4S?

Hi.
My addiction let me know,that it is a time for another flash light.
I consider one of those.
1. D4S SST-20 4000K 95CRI
2. FF E07 SST20 10W NW 4000K CRI95

I have to buy new cell in both cases.
Any pros/cons helping me choosing?

Buying both is not an option Big Smile

Cheers, Mike

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. George Carlin

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Edited by: sp5it on 01/17/2019 - 07:20
G0OSE
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I don’t have either but I’d go for the E07 (even with it’s teething problems) I love the D4 but I see it more of a ‘show’ light than a daily use one – which is why I haven’t got one! The sort of thing you pull out when a friend is round or boasting at work – ‘look how much light this little thing produces guys!’ I say this as I have an S41 which is rarely on highest, other than for this reason! (it’s still one of my favourites though)
If I was actually going to use one of these two daily for dog walks etc, the E07 would be my choice (and I do love those aux leds – but they both have those)

Cereal_killer
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I asked the same question a month ago. I went with the E07 and now I’m really hoping I don’t regret my purchase when the light arrives.

If you want a ready to use light you don’t have to worry about go for the D4S, if you don’t mind a light you need to do some work to (take it apart, add thermal paste and put the screws back in the right holes) then maybe the E07 would be right for you.

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P33
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Go for Fireflies if you like receiving stuff that is already broken and customer service is non-existent. I bought 2 lights from them and one took almost 3 months to arrive (was actually sent 1,5 month later then I was sent fake tracking number) and arrived with aux leds not working and tube not making contact with the tailcap/head. I wrote multiple emails to Fireflies and not a single one was replied to.
It’s really surprising that even they’ve got such horrendous quality issues everyone here on BLF just throws dollars at them like nobody’s business. I mean, I was also really excited about PL47 and E07 but I’m not going to support manufacturer that doesn’t care for customer enough to even pretend they’re trying to resolve the issue.
In E07 thread you’ve got a plethora of different issues with quality such as broken optics on every single copy [sic!] or absence of thermal paste.
Not sure what really makes D4S more of a ‘show’ light compared to E07 as construction is v similar – down to almost the same driver. Maybe the fact that having any Fireflies flashlight is not most inspiring to show off to anyone Big Smile D4S will have more throw if anything and that makes it more useful in my books.
Hank (Emisar) also tends to reply to emails that sets him light years ahead of Fireflies.

AlexGT
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I would go for the D4S and wait for fireflies to settle down on the quality control issues before purchasing one.

I love my D4S

mihlit
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Same advice as AlexGT. I’d go for D4S, which has no known issues and does not require any design nor mnf process improvement. E07 has a potential to be very good flashlight, but it’s not there yet. So, buy D4S and later, when screws are on proper places, tir optic without broken legs, screws not worn out, thermal paste applied on mcpcb, no cutting sharp fins, bigger tube so usual 21700 batteries fit and don’t get crushed. I have one. I’ve planned to buy another combination, but I will wait before they sort out all problems and I recommend you to do the same.

sp5it
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Thanks guys, I knew I can count on you Smile
Mike

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Agro
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I’d like to add that D4S would be way throwier.

sp5it
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That is my concern, I would like spill too to light close range up to 50m but wall of light.
How is D4s with frosted optics?
Mike

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P33
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You can just splash extra $4 and compare it yourself. Or just take the floodier one straight away.

lawallac
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I’m waiting for my E07 and have 2 D4Ss. Just some things to think about.

  • 1E07 will have more lumens because it has seven led v four.
  • E07 can use a 21700 or 18650 v 26650 in the D4s. If you already have cells of one type or don’t mind buying yet another battery configuration. Also, consider what chargers you have and if they will accommodate a new battery size.
  • D4S is available with a magnetic tail and without, magnet is quite strong-no problems yet, but be careful with credit cards or hotel room keys with magnetic strips. I actually had a hotel room key erase due to magnetic strip on ipad case.
  • E07 has a lighted power button that only turns off when battery is disconnected.
  • Aux light colors personal preference, but it seems E07 has more and different colors. But the D4S has 4 and they are quite nice as well.
  • D4S will have a throwy beam, especially with the sst20s.
  • E07 has Andruil v Ramping installed factory. Andruil gets you sunset mode (extended dimming till off), lightning storm, candle, etc.
  • E07 is going to be considerably heavier than the D4S.
  • E07 is a little longer than the D4S.
  • DS4 has been out longer and issues have been sorted. I expect, almost comically, when I get my E07 it will have a broken leg in optic.
klrman
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P33 wrote:
I bought 2 lights from them and one took almost 3 months to arrive (was actually sent 1,5 month later then I was sent fake tracking number)

 

Think I got one of those fake tracking #'s too.  FF won't reply to my email either.  All I asked was "what tracking site are you using that shows my e07 arrived in Canada already as the number you gave me does not show up anywhere?"   Crickets ever since.  This was the one I ordered almost 6 weeks ago.  The second E07 I ordered about 3 weeks ago has a real tracking # and I should see it by the end of this week.

Adhara
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No brainer. I have both.

E07 is currently, in my case and apparently many others’, an exemplar of shit results.

Yeah, it makes light, lots of it, for the few score of seconds before it rapidly throttles. About as useful for bright light as a burp-box spl contest speaker is for making music. The first light i’ve owned (ranging from $20 to $4k) where I’ve felt ripped off. Just a design/production mess.

The D4s works. Period. It has build quality and feel beyond its price class.

nick779
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D4S without question.

Refer to today’s Reddit Post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/agu4md/some_fireflies_e07s_...

Of the 7 lights disassembled and checked by multiple users, all of them had this issue. DBCustom was one of the contributors to that thread.

Fireflies just doesnt have it together, and im not dealing with that.

spideroz
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D4S in my opinion.

The E07 will be a nice flashlight if they fix most of the current problems, but they keep adding on top of each other and the list become quiet long, i prefer to wait for a revision 2 before ordering one.

lotrbfme
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I was gonna recommend you the E07. But I guess I an an oddity. I love mine and have no issues with it. It is beautiful and I like it much more than my Emisar. However, since it is a gamble I would just wait or buy the D4s. I couldnt wait so I bought another E07

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Personally, I think most of the “problems” reported with the E07 are overblown. This is a truly excellent light and I highly recommend it.

  • Broken leg on opticirrelevant. It has absolutely zero effect on functionality of the light … and it isn’t even the first light to do this. The Emisar D4 ships with 2 out of 4 legs on the optic intentionally broken off to make way for screws to hold the star down and nobody complains about it.
  • Improper thermal paste under starpossibly no effect or even beneficial on some E07 models. It has little effect on the performance of the XPL HI versions for instance. Heat sinking is still quite adequate, and the head still gets hot when turned on high or turbo. In one respect, the lack of proper thermal path might even be beneficial as it lets you hold the light longer without burning yourself.

That’s a good thing in my opinion, because for small pocket rockets like this one, the weak point is how much heat your hand can take, not the LEDs. The purists will object that it’s the “wrong” way to do it, and the LEDs are being damaged or underperforming. But from a practical perspective, the LEDs are going to outlast the flashlight no matter how much they are abused. And what is the point of having proper thermal path if it means the light has to ramp down even faster to prevent your hand from being burnt? … the net effect is even LESS sustained output.

Having extensively modded small lights into triples, sometimes what works best is having just enough heatsinking so that the star doesn’t desolder itself. Any more than that is sometimes counterproductive.

However, it is possible this could be causing an issue with SST20 emitter version. But then again… the blue-shifting people experience with SST20 might be caused by too much current and not heat. No way to know for sure until someone with one bevels the bottom of the star and adds thermal paste.

  • Delivery not matching up with orderok this is a problem, but not a huge one for such an awesome light. I ordered ice blue bezel lights and got purple instead. Having seen pictures of them both, I’m actually glad I got the purple. Looks great!
  • Slow deliverydepends on where you live I guess. Here in California, Fireflies’ free shipping takes a little less than 2 weeks, and DHL expedited shipping can take less than one. Seems fine to me. Quite fast actually.
mihlit
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I’d not call them overblown. (And you forgot the most important one about battery fitment). First, people know about crashed batteries. Later, I found out worn out screws, that (AFAIK) everyone who took light apart, confirmed. While checking screws, some noticed wrong screw placement and broken leg. We did not know about the thermal paste missing until yesterday. It is too soon to say that we know about all issues. I still believe it will be an awesome flashlight in the future, when all those problems are solved, but not yet.

chadvone
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What light will do 1000 lumens the longest?

lawallac
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Wasn’t there an question about the M43 thermal paste early on as well. I think Hank later said that he was using a different kind of paste that worked better with the tolerances or some reason. I’ll reserve judgement.

kanton
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Firelight2 wrote:
However, it is possible this could be causing an issue with SST20 emitter version. But then again… the blue-shifting people experience with SST20 might be caused by too much current and not heat. No way to know for sure until someone with one bevels the bottom of the star and adds thermal paste.

Fireflies should AT LEAST have issued a warning to refrain from using the 30T or similar high amp batteries if that really is the issue. Some customer that gets recommended the E07 and buys the 30T will end up with killing his light without any warning is not acceptable in my opinion. What they did instead was after the incident happened, pasting on page 30 as the 901st comment of some flashlight internet forum (ours) as a footnote that:

Quote:
*For E07 SST20 / Nichia version , we only recommend max 20A battery , 20A battery can reach max power for E07 SST20/Nichia version. With a 30T battery on SST20 or Nichia the turbo will go blue no matter how much paste used.

Or is there any other source for that?

EasyB
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Firelight2 wrote:

However, it is possible this could be causing an issue with SST20 emitter version. But then again… the blue-shifting people experience with SST20 might be caused by too much current and not heat. No way to know for sure until someone with one bevels the bottom of the star and adds thermal paste.


Even with a 30T each SST20 would get less than 4A which is not excessive with proper heat path to the shelf.
Firelight2
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EasyB wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:

However, it is possible this could be causing an issue with SST20 emitter version. But then again… the blue-shifting people experience with SST20 might be caused by too much current and not heat. No way to know for sure until someone with one bevels the bottom of the star and adds thermal paste.


Even with a 30T each SST20 would get less than 4A which is not excessive with proper heat path to the shelf.
May very well be heat which is causing the blueshift with SST20.

But the gold standard is to test it. All that is needed is someone with the SST20 model to remove the star, bevel the lower edges slightly with a handfile, scrape off the stock thermal paste and apply Arctic Silver 5 and then reinstall. See if that fixes it. Shouldn’t take more than half an hour.

lotrbfme
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What version of the sst20 is causing the blueshift? How does it looks like? I have the 4000k version running in a 40T and always on turbo etc without a problem

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I have a D4S and really enjoy it.
No issues, plenty of light and good battery capacity.

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klrman wrote:

P33 wrote:
I bought 2 lights from them and one took almost 3 months to arrive (was actually sent 1,5 month later then I was sent fake tracking number)

 


Think I got one of those fake tracking #‘s too.  FF won’t reply to my email either.  All I asked was “what tracking site are you using that shows my e07 arrived in Canada already as the number you gave me does not show up anywhere?”   Crickets ever since.  This was the one I ordered almost 6 weeks ago.  The second E07 I ordered about 3 weeks ago has a real tracking # and I should see it by the end of this week.

I think the whole tracking system in China is screwed up. I’ve ordered many times from FF and sometimes the tracking work after weeks and sometimes it doesn’t at all. The tracking order for the four E07 I ordered never worked but I received it in about 3 weeks time, which I thought was amazingly fast. Some other orders can take from 1 to 2.5months to arrive. Very random. Sometimes packages get stuck at HK customs.

But regardless of the shipping issues and other reported issues, I still love the E07 like mad because it’s so freaking bright for the size, looks great, max ramp can be sustained for long periods outdoors making it real practical. I admit the E07’s build quality cannot compare with the two D4S but I use the E07 much more because of the smaller size and higher output of the E07

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Either lights…you won’t regret

I tend to like E07 more than D4S due to the size factor but E07 have poor quality control.

Nico -.-

klrman
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SKV89 wrote:
klrman wrote:

Think I got one of those fake tracking #'s too.  FF won't reply to my email either.  All I asked was "what tracking site are you using that shows my e07 arrived in Canada already as the number you gave me does not show up anywhere?"   Crickets ever since.  This was the one I ordered almost 6 weeks ago.  The second E07 I ordered about 3 weeks ago has a real tracking # and I should see it by the end of this week.

I think the whole tracking system in China is screwed up. I've ordered many times from FF and sometimes the tracking work after weeks and sometimes it doesn't at all. The tracking order for the four E07 I ordered never worked but I received it in about 3 weeks time, which I thought was amazingly fast. Some other orders can take from 1 to 2.5months to arrive. Very random. Sometimes packages get stuck at HK customs. But regardless of the shipping issues and other reported issues, I still love the E07 like mad because it's so freaking bright for the size, looks great, max ramp can be sustained for long periods outdoors making it real practical. I admit the E07's build quality cannot compare with the two D4S but I use the E07 much more because of the smaller size and higher output of the E07

 

Yep, tracking is all over the place.  I just got one of my E07's today, the clear one and it looks beautiful, the best in my collection.  XPL-Hi 6500k, although I'm pretty sure it is 5000k.  My purple aux leds are very dull and dim which is a disappointment and am pretty sure there are different grades in those bins as it looks like Dale got the best purple leds out there from what I see in his pictures.    Brightness screws on the board do nothing either.  When I get a charger for the 21700 40T the xpl-hi should shine.  It's ok with a 30Q but about the same as my ODF30C so I need to see it with the stronger battery.  Overall I still love this light a lot and am glad ff created it.

nick779
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Firelight2 wrote:
Personally, I think most of the “problems” reported with the E07 are overblown. This is a truly excellent light and I highly recommend it.
  • Improper thermal paste under starpossibly no effect or even beneficial on some E07 models. It has little effect on the performance of the XPL HI versions for instance. Heat sinking is still quite adequate, and the head still gets hot when turned on high or turbo. In one respect, the lack of proper thermal path might even be beneficial as it lets you hold the light longer without burning yourself.

That’s a good thing in my opinion, because for small pocket rockets like this one, the weak point is how much heat your hand can take, not the LEDs. The purists will object that it’s the “wrong” way to do it, and the LEDs are being damaged or underperforming. But from a practical perspective, the LEDs are going to outlast the flashlight no matter how much they are abused. And what is the point of having proper thermal path if it means the light has to ramp down even faster to prevent your hand from being burnt? … the net effect is even LESS sustained output.

I greatly beg to differ. XP-L HI puts out plenty of heat when direct driven, and when the driver has no clue how hot the star is because of a crappy thermal path it cant throttle the light properly. Heat kills electronics including emitters, have you ever seen a light desolder the emitters from overheating before? Its unacceptable that the star doesnt seat properly at get contact on 90% of the DTP MCPCB.

ZoomieFan
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SKV89 wrote:

I think the whole tracking system in China is screwed up.
Sure. Or differs from package to package.
I often order from Banggood and Aliexpress.
Tracking often is “Package left seller/China” or something similar. The rest of the journey of the package is “current status unknown”
Yesterday I received a package and it was announced on the app on my phone when it would be delivered.
Shortly after I got the package AliExpress sent me an email the package was delivered. So their system works flawless.
Sometimes….

Chargers: 1xBasen BD01 5/5, 1x Gyrfalcon All-88, LiitoKala: 3x100 4/5, 2x202 5/5, 1x402 3/5., MiBoxer C4-12 3/5.
Flashlights: BLF Q8 4/5, DQG Tiny III 26650 5/5, FiTorch MR35 3/5, Haikelite SC26 HD 3/5, Lumintop Tool AA/AAA 4/5, Nitecore LA10, Sofirn C01 BLF 3200k/5600k, Zebralight H600Fc 3/5.
Powerbanks: EasyAcc 26800 mAh 3/5, Xtar PB2 4/5.
Waiting for: (DQG Tiny) 21700 EDCs. Xtar powerbank that (also) takes 20700, 21700, 26650

ZoomieFan
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kanton][quote=Firelight2 wrote:
Fireflies should AT LEAST have issued a warning to refrain from using the 30T or similar high amp batteries if that really is the issue.
That might be a good solution for some or even many, but not for me.
I want to use my cells as universally as possible. Also prone to errors. A few years down the line many cells may deliver too much juice for the light.

Chargers: 1xBasen BD01 5/5, 1x Gyrfalcon All-88, LiitoKala: 3x100 4/5, 2x202 5/5, 1x402 3/5., MiBoxer C4-12 3/5.
Flashlights: BLF Q8 4/5, DQG Tiny III 26650 5/5, FiTorch MR35 3/5, Haikelite SC26 HD 3/5, Lumintop Tool AA/AAA 4/5, Nitecore LA10, Sofirn C01 BLF 3200k/5600k, Zebralight H600Fc 3/5.
Powerbanks: EasyAcc 26800 mAh 3/5, Xtar PB2 4/5.
Waiting for: (DQG Tiny) 21700 EDCs. Xtar powerbank that (also) takes 20700, 21700, 26650

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