Test/review of Molicel INR21700-P42A 4200mAh (Gray)

You may have never met them, but we have known them for years.
The E-One Moli is one of the leading companies in the Li-Ion battery.
I once read somewhere that it is one of N.A.S.A’s suppliers.
In general, the quality of Moli is equivalent to well-known companies
Panasonic (Sanyo)
Murata (Sony Energy)
Samsung SDI (SDIEM)
LG Chem.

If I remember well those who built the MNKE, they were E-One Moli employees and their batteries wanted to be of comparable performance and quality.
Now MNKE belongs to IMREN …… and of course …… was lost ….

So do not worry about Moli …
They are similar to the batteries of major manufacturers.

Now MNKE belongs to IMREN …… and of course …… was lost ….

Where did you get the information? I’m curious :open_mouth:

The truth is that I do not remember where I read it ……
Unfortunately ……
I think I had read it here, but I’m not sure.

On a personal level, I would like it to be untrue … and MNKE will continue to be on the market ……

Ok, Thanks。 I have news here that mnke batteries are made in Jiangsu, not in Guangdong.

Sales are now falling sharply because technology hasn’t been updated for many years.

We have vapcell 26650 4200 MAH 32A and mnke 3500 mah.

I’m glad I learned this, Dennis .
It was the only company that had good batteries in the market a few years ago in size 26650.

One of the good companies in my opinion and it would be bad to withdraw from the market.

The last battery I had from this company was 4000mAh.
Many years before ……

I personally do not deal with this size, but it is good to have good choices in the market.
The latest 26650 batteries I came into contact with were the YDL 4200mAh (Aspire / Ijoy), the Basen 4500mAh (I do not know the manufacturer) and the PLB 5000 (Liitokala 5000A).

I can say it was good as a performance, but for the size of these batteries I personally think it’s still far behind the 18650 …… and of course well below the 21700 …

Today I think this size does not have a future, because of 21700.
We already have 5000mAh with 10 - 15A and size 21700 is …. baby …

- The 21700 will surely surpass 26650 if the 26650 build continues with today’s data ….

You are right,21700 battery is amzing. we also have those 26650 batteries except 26650 4500mah

Yes but only the specific format “26700” reaches to reach 40 continuous amps, when I say that I think about Molicel cells “IBR-26700A” (2800mAh Typical Capacaty and Max Continuous Discharge of 40A) and “IMR-26700A” (2900mAh Typical Capacity and Max Continuous Discharge of 40A), I know for cells of diameter 26mm their respective capacities are rather weak, but it was the sacrifice necessary at the time of their designs to obtain a continuous maximum discharge of 40 Amperes. There is no secret in it, you can not have both an extremely high capacity and a maximum continuous discharge extremely high too, you must choose one or the other, or create a balance / compromise between these two main features :wink:

Moreover, for the record, the two models of Molicel cells mentioned above were the first to be used concretely in various cars or electric racing vehicles at the start, as well as the first Formula “E” versions, I think that their maximum continuous discharges 40 Amps played a lot in favor of their primary and major uses in these racing cars, hehe … Let’s hope that the 20700 and 21700 formats far exceed their records of pure power and time on the racing circuits used!

THANK YOU, you have done a great job.

I saw all the tests and very impressed.

Unfortunate because it appears their headquarters and manufacturing is done in Maple Ridge BC, as well as in Taiwan.

HydrAxx ….

I did not know that there is
IBR 26700 A.
I only knew about
IMR 26700 A

Thanks .

You’re welcome.

If you want to test the Molicel IBR26700A, there are still in stock on the site that I will give you (German site, but they deliver everywhere in Europe) but they are a bit expensive you’ll see, but it’s the only place where they are still available to my knowledge.

https://shop.lipopower.de/LiIon-Rundzelle-Molicel-IBR26700A-37V-2800mAh

Thanks HydrAxx .
Thank you very much my friend ….

I posted this elsewhere, but received no answers...

I'm looking for a 21700 battery for an Astrolux EC01 (single cell flashlight, XHP50.2) which is rated at 3500 lumens on turbo. I believe it draws 14.8 amps on turbo. I'm looking at this particular cell for it, but then I read something about FET+1 drivers, and something about I think it was voltage sag, which leads to believe that I might be better off with a battery that's rated for LESS continuous high-drain amperage...possibly a 20A instead of this 45A Molicel. Again, I know little about high drain batteries and even less about drivers, and what I've read confuses me.

I'm looking to get both max lumens and max runtime on turbo, but also want to have max runtime once the battery can no longer sustain the turbo mode. What I read lead to believe that lower continuous amperage batteries would still give full lumens on turbo, but for a shorter time due to inefficient heat, and consequently thermal stepdown...and then since I used less juice for turbo, I'd have more left for high, medium and low... Is this correct, or am I totally lost???? :)

Would I want the 45A Molicel shown here, or would I be better served by having a battery that puts out less continuous amperage, like maybe a 20A variety?

Thanks in advance.

First of all, you cant have both max lumens and max runtime on turbo. The more lumens, the more heat. The faster the flashlight heats up, the sooner it needs to adjust down from Turbo to not burn you.

Second, why do you want max lumens? You think you do, but you really don’t. If you look at a light putting out 3000 lumens and then one putting out 3500 you would not see the difference with your eyes. You would only be able to measure the brightness difference with equipment.

I think you would be better served with a medium to high capacity battery and not a high drain. This Molicel P42A would be fine as well as a Samsung 40T or 50E. The 50E (5000mah) will give slightly less max output, but run Turbo longer and run all lower levels longer.

BTW, a FET driver is also called a direct drive driver. It’s like connecting a wire directly from the battery to the led on Turbo. So the battery as well as various resistance in the circuit will effect the brightness. The amperage draw will vary. Manufacturers have to use certain leds with FET drivers to make sure that they won’t get burned up by high powered batteries. It is a tricky balance. They can limit current by the components they use.

But you will still see marginally more with the brighter light.
I agree that small output differences have marginal effect in practice. But non 0. And as myself I don’t care much about Turbo times (5 seconds does it for me) I tend to prefer powerful cells.

More powerful batteries give higher output in a properly built FET light like EC01. The higher output comes with both higher power consumption (which means lower runtime) and lower efficiency (which is not lower enough to cause the output to be the same).

As JasonWW indicated, the output differences don’t tend to make a huge difference in real life. I suggest using some fairly high capacity cell.
Molicel P42 (on the powerful side), Panasonic NCR21700A (on the high efficient side) would be the high end options. There are some Lishen cells that would be more budget-friendly and still good choices.

If you can find the good batch (orange original wraps) of Lishen LR2170SF, they are the best high capacity cells. They make a good amount more lumens than the LG M50 and Samsung 50E in the E07 but only about 250 lumens less.

Thank you guys for the prompt replies. Truly appreciated!

The thing is, I'm purchasing 4 of these lights for other flashaholics (but with no experience with high-drain cells) and they are going to be used somewhat as "WOW" lights. They need to be able to burn paper (which they are capable of as videos show), so the brighter or hotter the Turbo is, the better.

I'm trying to better understand this Molicel battery and its number specs compared to others.

I realize that the chemistry of the cell is hugely important in all things, but disregarding chemistry...Hypothetical situation here...imagine three batteries identical in all things (same mAh rating) except for max continuous amperage ratings. This battery has 45A continuous, while the other two are rated at 20A and 10A max continuous. With this particular Astrolux light which can draw 14.8A on turbo, can I assume that:

1) 45A and 20A will provide the similar max turbo brightness due to them both providing a continuous amperage above 14.8A?

2) 45A and 20A will have similar runtimes on turbo and lower modes? Does voltage sag come into this or the question above?

3) 10A continuous will not be able to reach the same turbo brightness due to it NOT being able to provide at least 14.8A? But will be similar to the others in regards to brightness and runtimes on lower modes?

4) Will 10A cause the light to thermal stepdown quicker than the others due to battery being stressed while driven at max turbo, or maxing the cell out, or some other reason? Or will 45A and 20A cause thermal stepdown quicker due to the emitter reaching the brighter output, and consequently more heat? I've seemed to read it going both ways...

5) Astrolux specifies that an unprotected, high-drain cell be used. I'm assuming that's because "unprotected" and "high-drain" go somewhat hand in hand, and to reach 3500 lumens a typical high-drain battery would also typically be unprotected. With that said, I found an Acebeam IMR battery that states it's Protected, High-Drain, 20A continuous discharge, and 5100 mAh. If it were to physically fit in the tube, why wouldn't I want to use that? Yes, it's protected, but it still says it can deliver 20A continuous.

Again, just trying to get an education numbers-wise, when comparing high-drain batteries in a light that calls for them.

Thank,

Andy

The 14.8A measurement is using some specific cell, with a cell with lower IR - internal resistance - (less voltage sag) it will be something like 18A, with higher IR it will be like 12A to throw random numbers. A cell with higher CDR typically has lower IR but IR isn’t the only factor that determines the CDR.

The Continuous Discharge Rating is the maximum amount of current that can be draw continuously from the cell while keeping sag,temperature, etc. within specs with some added safety margin. The CDR number is only as trustworthy as the the manufacturer, bad brands have vastly inflated or just fake CDR. Drawing higher current than the CDR is possible but unsafe.

Current is loaded battery voltage / circuit resistance or equivalently unloaded battery voltage over (circuit resistance + IR). Many circuits either actively draw constant current or have constant resistance, so current is often oversimplified as being ‘pulled’ in introductory explanations. LEDs actually decrease the resistance as voltage increases as shown by the shape of the Vf curve, so a battery with lower voltage sag may result in a large increase in current.

No, you can’t assume that.

  1. Amp rating is not really a property of battery but of how its marketed. It is meant to somewhat correspond with battery internal resistance. And it often does with good brands, but that’s not always the case and furthermore it’s often rounded, sometimes up sometimes down. It is normal for a cell to have different amp ratings on different wraps. It is normal to have small capacity differences as well.
  2. Basically (in a FET light):
    battery_voltage - voltage_sag = led_forward_voltage - current * host_resistance
    with voltage_sag = internal_resistance * current
    It is not that the light draws 14.8A. First, it draws this number only at certain battery voltage (likely 4.2V). As battery discharges, current draw goes down.
    Second, lower battery internal resistance means higher current draw. So in our hypothetical case, the more powerful battery will draw more current.
  3. Voltage sag affects runtime as well
  4. Thermal stepdown occurs due to heat accumulating in the host. More power draw = faster heat production = faster heat accumulation. The more powerful cell the faster stepdown. There is no cell stress related to that, though some lights don’t work properly with too weak cells (Acebeam EC65 with the stock cell).
  5. You can use protected cells but:
  • the protection circuit adds resistance, reducing power draw
  • as you noted there are sometimes issues with the size increase
  • sometimes the circuit trips at high discharge, though in theory it shouldn’t here
  • Acebeam 5100 has fake capacity and fake current rating, IDK if the protection circuit will trip but the cell can’t sustain 20A

It should also be noted that this Molicel P42A’s 45A continuous rating is merely the factory rating and it’s a bit unspecific.

HKJ does not seem to mention what he thinks the max continuous is. He tests it at 30A and it seems to pass his tests.

Mooch has rated it at 30A continuous and 40A if you monitor the temperature to not exceed 75°C.

This still puts it a notch better than the Samsung 40T.