Fireflies E07 preview

question is does it with with usb ?

And so because someone wants something they should have it? Regardless of the inherent danger? The Emisar lights have a focus on ultimate performance in a compact structure, the entire design concept leaves no room for the charging circuit being asked for nor the likely ensuing loss of performance. It is not so much WE should be happy to “mind our own business” as it is we should help protect muggles that do not know what they are doing. Cells such as the high discharge non- protected 21700’s this light is designed to use should be charged outside of the light, carefully monitored to preserve a safety margin the users life may well depend on. Li-ion safety is extremely important, one major incident where poor design costs lives could impact us all in ways we’d truly hate to see.

My vote, my experience, goes with no built in charger for ANY light, you want easy stay in elementary school. Life, and it’s inherent pursuits, is not easy.

And of course, that’s my opinion and you are welcome to it. :wink:

/\ . :slight_smile: . I like that…… :+1:

Owned.

Yeah, I’d like to see E07 with usb charger, but I get that E07 is too small/compact to accommodate usb charging. That’s why I’m looking forward to Astrolux MF01 mini.

This is plain wrong as muggle will buy a flashlight with a battery OR forget to buy a battery and complain about it later (that flashlight was sold without battery). He will most likely buy some YourHouseOn*Fire* brand with 9000 mAh and cheapest wall/usb battery charger. I did not see the picture of “2 bay 21700 / 18650 charger” FF sells as an optional accessory to E07, but I highly doubt that it is in any way better than usual in-flashlight charger.

USB chargers suck. Leave that to the big light conglomerates. Boutique lights shouldn’t have USB charging and all the little cute bells n whistles.

No USB for me. Please keep the USB OUT of the discussion..

the light had already many problems we don't need to create a new one. Not to mention the water proof issue this one alone can make. And this can make it completely useless light

Charging in or out the light is not just about easy vs. hard. For me it’s more about convenient vs. inconvenient. In this case I actually prefer the inconvenient way….but that’s only because it’s cheaper and available. If the cost difference was marginal and lights with built-in powerbanks were abundant - I’d clearly prefer built-in. And I actually fail to see why one would prefer hard for the sake of hard unless improving skills was a goal by itself. Which doesn’t seem to be the case.
And I’d say that built-in is the safer way. It can prevent many kinds of user misuse, both caused by lack of education (inserting a cell the wrong way) and not (mishandling).

Agro, think pipe bomb…

I disagree. I believe it is far more dangerous to give muggles a lithium ion cell light because the likelihood of them charging the cell in a non compatible charger is far higher than a built in usb charger causing explosion. In fact I dont think anyone here has heard of a flashlight with built-in charging exploding.

Yes, I think pipe bomb. It takes a lot to turn flashlight into one:

I believe there were some later tests with similar conclusions.

Merely shorting one while disabling thermal protection is not enough to cause problems.
Similarly use of a weak and used but gnerally OK quality cell - you’ll just get less current and may wear the cell much faster than usual.

So you believe in making a muggle safe gun instead of training the muggle?

Do you not see an inherent problem in the fact that even a cheap single bay charger is $5-7 while the built in charging circuit is pennies worth? Quality, at $0.30? And you’ve never seen a cell vent? Ever? Sorry bud, but it happens and it’s freaky even in a proper charging environment, possibly deadly encased in an aircraft aluminum tube.

The odds, think of the odds. It will happen at some point that a charger overcharges when left alone to charge, and in todays ever more populated environment it could well happen that when it does many many people will be affected. Plug it in and leave it, that’s what everyone wants to do, and that’s fine while everything is in top working order, but one little component goes wrong and the cell overcharges, it heats up, it vents… then what? Not YOUR light, but the guy in the same building several rooms over, or several floors away, and suddenly you’re evacuating because someone else bought a cheap a$$ light and left plugged into the wall… or maybe it’s your mom getting smoke inhalation and an extended hospital stay due to that guy… but it does happen, and sooner or later it will happen to you. Keep muggles, muggles… or educate them and attempt to eliminate the potential for massive problems?

The vape folks are seeing it more and more, and they will get our li-ion cells regulated beyond purchase soon enough that we probably won’t have to worry about this discussion.

One test, one result. Multiply it by a million and see how many results you get… the combination of variables is beyond imagination. Murphy’s law prevails. How many li-ion fires in the underbellies of Airplanes did it take to cause us grief? No flashlight even involved. The cells are extremely powerful, the possibilities nearly endless. Proceed with caution or be prepared to pay a price.

My wife has heard me extol the virtues of safe Li-ion handling for years, I have over 300 Li-ion cells and 6 chargers. She’s heard all this, she’s an educated Licensed Vocational Nurse, one would think… well, one shouldn’t. The other day she came into an exam room and the couple in there had thrown a hot wet 18650 on the floor! Cautioned her about it when she stepped into the room. The woman said it was loose in her purse and she was looking for something and found it wet and burning hot, almost too hot to grab out of her purse and throw on the floor. What did my LVN wife do? She grabbed a rag and picked up the cell and put it in …. the Sharps Container! I about fell out when she told me that! If the cell had exploded it would have been amidst contaminated needles in a plastic box.

Muggles come in all stages of enlightenment, some that know absolutely nothing about all this, and those that should know but don’t apply it. What if, just in hypothetical imagining, what if the light you are carrying vented and flamed and a building burned, people died? Would you go to jail for your beliefs that internal charging is ok? Might never happen, might not even be possible, but that could be in the same way said about you wrecking your car and killing someone, don’t drive and it can’t happen, right? Or learn to be careful and it probably won’t. Some of it is out of our hands, so all we can do is try. Complacency is the issue. People get used to the danger and begin to ignore it.

Agro? I’m not talking about what is easy or hard, convenient or inconvenient, safe or dangerous even… I am talking about what is right and what is wrong. No blurred lines. Our world is full of “convenience” and look around, are you sure that’s the best idea? Virtually every convenience is in turn inconvenient to someone else. By short cutting to the easy way, someone else has it harder. Look around. Even if it’s “only” poor Hank trying to cram a Type C charger into a compact powerhouse flashlight… Why Type C? Because it’s faster, more convenient? How does it achieve this? By delivering more power? So the 0.6C charge rate can be overridden? Uh huh, right, put a low quality low capacity cell in and charge it at 3A… uh, well, probably not the best of ideas. Don’t think it won’t happen, what muggle wants a $15 premium cell? I know people that take the bargain route and buy crazy named ultra cheap cells and expect them to perform, and they’re experienced flashaholics!

Ok, done, peace out…

External charger quality is exactly like internal one - variable. I remember reading about some “charger” which was just a set of resistors. Tried to find it and failed but I see something else: Junk Chinese USB Charger Electrocutes And Kills Mother-of-two in Australia

I never witnessed a vent myself but I read about a few. One was inside a flashlight others were outside. With that one the user tossed a flashlight together with some branches into a fire. Outside? Yeah, there were more, I remember one that caused serious burns.

But anyway: forcing muggles to use external chargers is not training. Any muggle can charge AA cells and from user perspective charging Li-Ion is not any different, except that some will fall into the “it doesn’t fit my charger” problem.
If you want them to be safe, the first step is to supply them with a quality charger and quality cells. The next step is to add a protection circuit to the cell. The last - to prevent users from removing the cells.
I don’t propose that E07 or any other enthusiast light goes this way - but if safety is the priority, I believe this is the right way.

I honestly doubt there is any quality difference between those. Anyway, charging lithium cell is super simple, any cccv module with termination can do that. Compared to that, charging “ordinary” NiMH properly is a rocket science. If you want something more, next safety feature in line is temperature monitoring which usually is not present at any cheap to medium priced chargers, definitely not in most of them (if any). I did not see the pictures of that charger that FF sells as E07 optional accessory, but I really doubt it’s better than any other CCCV (pennies worth) charger.

True.
Adding a charger makes a light bigger. As already stated it affects waterproofing. Modding such light can be harder. Yeah, it’s not a pure win and I see why some don’t want it.
It adds advantages on its own and I believe both convenience and safety are among them.

But is it right?
I’m afraid the answer is “it depends”.

As of now we have a choice, there are many lights that come with charging but still many that don’t. I like it like that.

I wouldn’t have bought this light if it had USB charging. The Astrolux is ugly and bulky looking but if someone wants charging they have that as an option.

I’m not against it on all lights. The Astrolux FT03 I got isn’t so bad with USB charging but the light is already big so it adds no size overall. It’s also a light I could see myself leaving a battery in and not wanting a higher or lower drain/capacity battery for some period of time. Still, even in this light, I feel it’s very waterproof and flush but my finger catches the tag edge of the stupid silicone cover every time i grab the light.

Here’s a thought…… Instead of ’dumbing down’ a Li Ion light so you can
“give it to a muggle”, e-d-u-c-a-t-e them on the safe use of Li Ion lights. Or, as DB Custom said; “let them remain muggles”.

Give them a AA light. Not everyone should have or own a Li Ion light.

To dumb down a good light with USB charging (or others bells & whistles) so as to muggle or idiot proof it is ridiculous in my opinion.

It would be somewhat like limiting every 4 wheel vehicle on the roads to 89 horsepower so they would be safer for everyone to drive.
R-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s. :person_facepalming: :person_facepalming: :person_facepalming: <— Yep, a triple face palm.

Either educate or do not gift Li Ion…. simple as that.

And for ‘flashaholics’ who actually desire USB charging on a high power Li Ion light…… I personally am at a loss for words. :person_facepalming: . :innocent: