Fireflies E07 preview

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Agro
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SKV89 wrote:
The reason I loke usb charging is not only because it is muggle friendly but convenient to bring on trips so I dont have to bring a separate charger. Im travelling in Europe right now and decided not to bring the E07 because it has no usb charge.

The EC65 is the smallest 21700 light I own and I have many 21700 lights. The EC65 is very refined with usb c charge. Therefore I dont understand why everyone thinks usb chargeq makes the light so much bigger.


Yeah…and aside from having charging it actually supports 21750 cells which gives it a 5mm disadvantage over some competitors.
But sometimes it does add size. Smaller lights…Ones that desire it on a separate PCB (to make changing the main driver)…Extremely compact lights (FW3A)…
koziy
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People make a huge stink over the safety of lithium ion batteries and built-in chargers but I bet most people here carry a Li-ion-powered smartphone in their pocket every day and plug it into different chargers throughout the day. It all comes down to the quality of components used.

The reasons I’m not fond of USB charging in a flashlight are because it usually adds size and usually compromises the waterproofing. But even that’s not always true. Everybody is familiar with the relatively new to the market 10180 flashlights, like the Maratac Peanut or the Olight i1r, for example. Those have built-in USB charging and if the charging functionality adds size, the flashlights still end up being some of the smallest 130 lumen lights on the market. Also, the way that USB charging is implemented can be perfectly waterproof, too. The Acebeam H30 headlamp, as another example, hides the charging port under the threads at one end, which is sealed up with an o-ring. If you never charge it via USB, you never have to unscrew that cap.

Agro
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As far as I see, Peanut comes with a separate charger:
https://www.optiongray.com/maratac-peanut-led-flashlight-copper/

And Olight i1r is merely 63% larger than DQG Fairy.

koziy
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Agro wrote:
As far as I see, Peanut comes with a separate charger:
https://www.optiongray.com/maratac-peanut-led-flashlight-copper/

And Olight i1r is merely 63% larger than DQG Fairy.

The Peanut Rev 2 has charging built in.
https://countycomm.com/products/copper-peanut-led-flashlight-kit-by-mara...

But this is nitpicking at its finest. How would that invalidate what I said even if you were right?

teacher
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I am loving This E07 I got from contactcr.

Fireflies E07 with Samsung LH351D LED swap & mods

This is contactcr’s Mod Post with more details about this light.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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G.P.
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I see both sides of the USB argument, but I call BS on the issue of the E07 not being big enough, or USB charging adding to its size. The smallest flashlight that I own is the Helius Sigma vi, and they managed to include USB charging on it.

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It also seems like they protected the port by keeping it in the threads.

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
― George Carlin

contactcr
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Looks like they made a mediocre battery (10180) even worse by making it 10150 and adding a charging port. Not convinced this is a good example at all.

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How long before we can get wireless charging in these flamethrowers?

Edit: Lol, ORCA beat me to it. https://www.amazon.com/ORCATORCH-Wireless-Charging-Emergency-Blackouts/d...

“Electricity is really just organized lightning”
― George Carlin

Agro
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koziy wrote:
Agro wrote:
As far as I see, Peanut comes with a separate charger:
https://www.optiongray.com/maratac-peanut-led-flashlight-copper/

And Olight i1r is merely 63% larger than DQG Fairy.

The Peanut Rev 2 has charging built in.
https://countycomm.com/products/copper-peanut-led-flashlight-kit-by-mara...

But this is nitpicking at its finest. How would that invalidate what I said even if you were right?


Yes, in my eyes it invalidates what you said. Becuase that Peanut Rev 2 is 29% larger than Fairy. This is a huge difference and at least for me it clearly puts it in another size class.
BTW that Helius Sigma Li that G.P. has shown is even larger than that.

My point is: when a light is small, there is a big size increase caused by adding a charger.
At larger sizes, the minimal increase is pretty much meaningless – but some makers choose to have a separate charger board (and some BLFers advocate that for the sake of easier driver replacement). Such construction is advantageous for modders but it add some size to larger lights as well. At larger sizes users often request Type-C. Which is another small size increase.

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Protip: I have a Nitecore F1 in my car. Problem solved Smile

Ekstasis
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SKV89 wrote:
The reason I loke usb charging is not only because it is muggle friendly but convenient to bring on trips so I dont have to bring a separate charger. Im travelling in Europe right now and decided not to bring the E07 because it has no usb charge.

The EC65 is the smallest 21700 light I own and I have many 21700 lights. The EC65 is very refined with usb c charge. Therefore I dont understand why everyone thinks usb chargeq makes the light so much bigger.

Well those people who dont want usb c charging are the most hardcore nerds, those who really want the best charger possible etc, they want to buy as many nerdy stuff and learn all science behind them, usb charger would mean they no longer need to use their ultra pro chargers, its a whole religion of its own.

But yes, internal charger have so many benifits, usb c is extra good cause its very flexible of what sourcescan you can use. Most people will use their smartphone charger I guess. The whole argument that internal chrager would make flashlight beefy is just a load of BS EC65 and manker E14 ii and many others is the proof of that

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There is even batteries with usb port these days! Those batteries have slightly less capacity, but just slightly.

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USB charging is great to have in a light … if you actually use it. Or if you are gifting the light to a muggle who doesn’t own a charger.

Most of us on this forum already have chargers so have no need of USB charging.

And USB charging DOES take space. For example: Want to make an Emisar D4 with USB charging? … it would probably be 5-10mm longer than a D4 without charging. That extra space is needed to accomodate the charging circuit and the micro-USB jack.

And then you have the problem of how do you cover the jack. Many of my lights have USB charging, but have covers that tend to dislodge and fall out of place, which is really irritating. Take the Eagtac DX3B for example: Great light with excellent output, tint and decent UI. But it has a big problem: The USB cover doesn’t stay in place. That’s not a good thing on a pocket EDC.

Even for the lights where the USB cover does stay in place it is flexible rubber and will eventually wear out. Why have another component you don’t need on the light to serve as a point of failure?

Of course there are other methods to hide the USB cover: Place the port on the threads under the head. Or place it under a sliding metal ring. But those methods all add additional weight, length and complexity too.

USB charging is great for people who need it. But it does come with significant tradeoffs and personally, I’d rather my lights did not have it.

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/\ +2

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Tally-ho
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Are we able to test the quality of a battery with a FL’s built-in charger ?
Actually, we need an additionnal device which charge and discharge the battery.

When you have only one flashlight or carry only one (travel, etc), it might be usefull but you have several flashlights, why would you carry an additionnal charger in everyone of them ?
The built-in charger is not the ultimate answer to a problem. It depends on anyone needs which are differents.

Ekstasis
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Tally-ho wrote:
Are we able to test the quality of a battery with a FL’s built-in charger ?
Actually, we need an additionnal device which charge and discharge the battery.

When you have only one flashlight or carry only one (travel, etc), it might be usefull but you have several flashlights, why would you carry an additionnal charger in everyone of them ?
The built-in charger is not the ultimate answer to a problem. It depends on anyone needs which are differents.

As long as it is a option I am for it… internal charger will most likely be a lot slower then external charger.
If we are going to use internal charger we should maybe consider to use a built in battery, if we want big capacity and size ratio internal battery is the best option, external batteries have high demands regarding physical protection, so there is a lot bigger metal layer on external batteries, for internal battries the body itself for the flashlight protect the battery which mean we can get more juice from battery, nitecore have already gone that route with their 10K flashlight.
An other benifit with internal battery would be that it would guarantee that battery meets the specs regarding performance, with the E07 we have seen extreme differences just by using samsung and other brands this should not be possible.

The drawbacks is many also… always a risk that the manufacture decide to choose cheaper long quality and unsafe battery, but as it is now the whole battery business is a lot Russian roulette as it is.. its very hard to know if you got a fake or genuine battery

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Firelight2 wrote:
USB charging is great to have in a light … if you actually use it. Or if you are gifting the light to a muggle who doesn’t own a charger.

Most of us on this forum already have chargers so have no need of USB charging.

And USB charging DOES take space. For example: Want to make an Emisar D4 with USB charging? … it would probably be 5-10mm longer than a D4 without charging. That extra space is needed to accomodate the charging circuit and the micro-USB jack.

And then you have the problem of how do you cover the jack. Many of my lights have USB charging, but have covers that tend to dislodge and fall out of place, which is really irritating. Take the Eagtac DX3B for example: Great light with excellent output, tint and decent UI. But it has a big problem: The USB cover doesn’t stay in place. That’s not a good thing on a pocket EDC.

Even for the lights where the USB cover does stay in place it is flexible rubber and will eventually wear out. Why have another component you don’t need on the light to serve as a point of failure?

Of course there are other methods to hide the USB cover: Place the port on the threads under the head. Or place it under a sliding metal ring. But those methods all add additional weight, length and complexity too.

USB charging is great for people who need it. But it does come with significant tradeoffs and personally, I’d rather my lights did not have it.

5 millimeter increase in size I would not consider a huge drawback.. When usb c charging get more common on flashlight they will have all on the same circiout board this will result in more compact design once again, so in future I think we can see zero difference in size.

BlueSwordM
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Well, knowing that Nitecore put in a 4800mAh 10A rated cell in a 30A rated light, I’m not so sure I actually want an enclosed cell.

Also, pouch cells inside of flashlights are a no go for me.

Why? Well, because flashlights are usually much more demanding compared to phones, they can puff much more easily, be damaged more easily, etc, which can result in catastrophic failure.

And besides, cylindrical cells have higher energy densities than pouch cells, so no, they aren’t a better choice.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Ekstasis
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Personally I will wait for the astrolux light, they have been around longer and from what I know they have a kind of good reputation here.
And I like some of their designs in EDC category especially. USB C charging might be a dealbreaker in the end for me. I dont feel like buying a charger, the one I have only support 18650 not bigger.

If the New CU/TI version of E07 will perform a lot better I will consider it too, also which is most sexy will also be a drawback… we will have to wait and see for the astrolux. And the summer has arrived in sweden which mean more sun hours and less need for a strong flashlight, so I will sit still in my boat and enjoy my manker E14 II until then which fill its purpose for now even though the new 7 LED designs is far superior and next level stuff. And I think we will not have to wait long until more then astrolux jumps on this advancement in technology. It is really exciting times in EDC flashlights now.

Ekstasis
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Well, knowing that Nitecore put in a 4800mAh 10A rated cell in a 30A rated light, I’m not so sure I actually want an enclosed cell.

Also, pouch cells inside of flashlights are a no go for me.

Why? Well, because flashlights are usually much more demanding compared to phones, they can puff much more easily, be damaged more easily, etc, which can result in catastrophic failure.

And besides, cylindrical cells have higher energy densities than pouch cells, so no, they aren’t a better choice.

Well its many drawbacks. We cant deny that. I find it strange that a company like Nitecore would try to cheat like that…

Biggest drawback is you cant bring spare battery with you for longer trips, also the fact that a battery have limited amount of charging cycles is a problem in long term use, battery will perform less and less good with time, in future I would think you can get some kind of health rating for the battery some how, just like you can with your smartphone.

One solution would be that for instance a company would have a certain body/tube design with internal battery, which will fit more then one model, and also you can buy spare one, its like a “power bank”, so if you buy a flashlight you might only need the head, if you already have a compatible tube with internal battery. I think this kind of modular design would open up for opportunities that each individual could design what size and power he or she need, if you need more power you can buy a bigger tube. This solution would take away most of the drawbacks of internal batteries, since you can buy new and replace and also bring spare if you need.

I think it’s a cool idea with this modular design that would maximize battery capacity to size ratio, also bring flexibility to the user if he/she prefer more power or smaller size.

I think the sooner the flashlight industry realize that internal batteries is the future the better, it would give a lot more juice. Smartphone industry have realized this long time ago, this is why replaceable batteries never ever will come back to smartphones, because replaceable batteries need a protection shell which have big impact on capacity, we are in the same dilemma with flashlights. So I hope there will become some kind of standard with battery packs for flashlight so they will fit, or atleast that they work with the same brand.

Ekstasis
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Tally-ho wrote:
Are we able to test the quality of a battery with a FL’s built-in charger ?
Actually, we need an additionnal device which charge and discharge the battery.

When you have only one flashlight or carry only one (travel, etc), it might be usefull but you have several flashlights, why would you carry an additionnal charger in everyone of them ?
The built-in charger is not the ultimate answer to a problem. It depends on anyone needs which are differents.

I think even if we like it or not built in charger will become standard soon. its a deal breaker for many, especially NON flashholic nerds, its a lot more easy.
Drawbacks are too small to justify to not include built in charger. Only the real hardcore nerds with the most expensive and fancy lcd screens charger will complain. Most people just want to plug in the cable and let it charge, a lot more easy then have to unscrew the tube and take out the battery every time.

BlueSwordM
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Ah, we’re in a different realm here compared to other portable devices.

Cylindrical cells here will always be the norm due to how they are made.

If you were to make a flashlight with a pouch cell that had the same internal volume as a cylindrical cell, you’d actually get more capacity with the cylindrical cells.

Why do you think Tesla is using cylindrical cells? Because having, even slightly, higher energy density per mass and volume is what matters.

This is why flashlights should always have replaceable cells, since using a different design wouldn’t actually be useful at all.
You wouldn’t get any more juice, and you’d lose on the easy replacement, easy to repair cells.
Also, what do you think happens when proprietary battery packs are implemented? Higher costs to the user.
What happens if a flashlight battery pack is discontinued? You can’t replace a battery pack that would otherwise have less life than the light itself.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
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Quote:

[1] As long as it is a option I am for it… internal charger will most likely be a lot slower then external charger.

[2] If we are going to use internal charger we should maybe consider to use a built in battery, …. (snippers) ………..

My thoughts, yours may be different.

[1] As long as USB charging is limited to little key chain lights, some headlamps, & options on a few ‘novice friendly’ lights; I don’ mind at all as long as the USB port is in the threads… hidden & protected by a tail or some other threaded cap.
Rubber plugs, no matter how good they seem at first are not a good long term solution.

I could care less if it be USB Micro or C. Seems to me Micro makes more sense in a small light

I am totally & completely against USB charging in High power Li Ion lights be they single cell or multi cell. The reasons for this are many, ranging from safety, to unwanted size increase, and anything in between. A high powered Li Ion light does not need USB charging.

[2] As far as a “built in battery”, proprietary most likely; in a High Powered light: Absolutely NOT. I will not even go into my reasoning on this one, it would take to long. Facepalm
But I personally would never own one.
The only exception being very small keychain lights.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

Ekstasis
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teacher wrote:
Quote:

[1] As long as it is a option I am for it… internal charger will most likely be a lot slower then external charger.

[2] If we are going to use internal charger we should maybe consider to use a built in battery, …. (snippers) ………..

My thoughts, yours may be different.

[1] As long as USB charging is limited to little key chain lights, some headlamps, & options on a few ‘novice friendly’ lights; I don’ mind at all as long as the USB port is in the threads… hidden & protected by a tail or some other threaded cap.
Rubber plugs, no matter how good they seem at first are not a good long term solution.

I could care less if it be USB Micro or C. Seems to me Micro makes more sense in a small light

I am totally & completely against USB charging in High power Li Ion lights be they single cell or multi cell. The reasons for this are many, ranging from safety, to unwanted size increase, and anything in between. A high powered Li Ion light does not need USB charging.

[2] As far as a “built in battery”, proprietary most likely; in a High Powered light: Absolutely NOT. I will not even go into my reasoning on this one, it would take to long. Facepalm
But I personally would never own one.
The only exception being very small keychain lights.

Do you dare to charge your smartphone ?
Your smartphone battery is a big bomb also.

Ekstasis
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Ah, we’re in a different realm here compared to other portable devices.

Cylindrical cells here will always be the norm due to how they are made.

If you were to make a flashlight with a pouch cell that had the same internal volume as a cylindrical cell, you’d actually get more capacity with the cylindrical cells.

Why do you think Tesla is using cylindrical cells? Because having, even slightly, higher energy density per mass and volume is what matters.

This is why flashlights should always have replaceable cells, since using a different design wouldn’t actually be useful at all.
You wouldn’t get any more juice, and you’d lose on the easy replacement, easy to repair cells.
Also, what do you think happens when proprietary battery packs are implemented? Higher costs to the user.
What happens if a flashlight battery pack is discontinued? You can’t replace a battery pack that would otherwise have less life than the light itself.

Why would cylindrical have more capacity ?
It does not seem logical too me and also you need stronger protection shell. I do not care of what form the battery have, it should have the same as the body of the flashlight if its cylindrical then you have cylindrical battery, but internal battery would mean you do need as strong protective shell because its protected by the flashlight body just like with smartphone batteries, they have no metallic protection layer anymore as they had before when you could replace them, similiar principle should work with flashlights.

Why tesla use regular batteries I do not know, cost is one for sure, probably higher yields on smaller batteries rather then bigger maybe..But to be honest I have no idea

BlueSwordM
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That’s precisely because of the shell and the shape.

1. The cylindrical shape and fitting allows to fit more active material in, meaning higher energy density.

2. The steel casing allows for a much safer design compared to pouch cells.
Try puncturing a steel cased 18650/aluminium cased 21700. Not easy. A pouch cell can easily be penetrated by almost anything.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
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Ekstasis wrote:

Do you dare to charge your smartphone ?
Your smartphone battery is a big bomb also.
Yep, I charge it. You charge yours?

I never mentioned “big bomb”. Is that what you consider your ‘smart phone’ to be?

If so how do you deal with that? Looks like it would be tough mentally to carry it (“a big bomb”) around with you… if you do carry it that is.

edit for spelling correction.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

Agro
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Ekstasis wrote:
Firelight2 wrote:
USB charging is great to have in a light … if you actually use it. Or if you are gifting the light to a muggle who doesn’t own a charger.

Most of us on this forum already have chargers so have no need of USB charging.

And USB charging DOES take space. For example: Want to make an Emisar D4 with USB charging? … it would probably be 5-10mm longer than a D4 without charging. That extra space is needed to accomodate the charging circuit and the micro-USB jack.

And then you have the problem of how do you cover the jack. Many of my lights have USB charging, but have covers that tend to dislodge and fall out of place, which is really irritating. Take the Eagtac DX3B for example: Great light with excellent output, tint and decent UI. But it has a big problem: The USB cover doesn’t stay in place. That’s not a good thing on a pocket EDC.

Even for the lights where the USB cover does stay in place it is flexible rubber and will eventually wear out. Why have another component you don’t need on the light to serve as a point of failure?

Of course there are other methods to hide the USB cover: Place the port on the threads under the head. Or place it under a sliding metal ring. But those methods all add additional weight, length and complexity too.

USB charging is great for people who need it. But it does come with significant tradeoffs and personally, I’d rather my lights did not have it.

5 millimeter increase in size I would not consider a huge drawback.. When usb c charging get more common on flashlight they will have all on the same circiout board this will result in more compact design once again, so in future I think we can see zero difference in size.


The FW3A team rejected support for protected cells because they decided that the extra 5 mm would be too much. And with this the rejected cells that have built-in chargers or powerbanks. So…5 mm clearly matters to some. That said for larger lights the size increase could be as low as 0. F.e. D4 could easily go with a larger diameter driver, that may be enough to add a charger. If not – going to double sided driver would be enough for sure. So I’m pretty confident that Emisar could pull it off with 0 size increase.

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