Fireflies E07 preview

2050 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ekstasis
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 12/26/2017 - 14:32
Posts: 71
caplang wrote:
It seems E07 Cu edition product page is up on their web http://www.ff-light.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=57

I am not a big fan of the Clear-Anodize aluminum, a flashlight should not look too bling bling it should look cool also..for me as a security guard this would look to bling bling being on duty.
However black with copper head would look better, better contrast also…

I guess we will have to wait and see if this is aluminum or titanium. Anyway… I am waiting for the astrolux competitor.

mattadores
mattadores's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 01/21/2019 - 18:45
Posts: 612
Location: Alberta
Ekstasis wrote:
caplang wrote:
It seems E07 Cu edition product page is up on their web http://www.ff-light.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=57

I am not a big fan of the Clear-Anodize aluminum, a flashlight should not look too bling bling it should look cool also..for me as a security guard this would look to bling bling being on duty.
However black with copper head would look better, better contrast also…

I guess we will have to wait and see if this is aluminum or titanium. Anyway… I am waiting for the astrolux competitor.

It’s copper main body with TI batt tube and bezel. The other issue besides baller bling is that the TI conducts heat extremely well and makes the entire light, your hand and the cell get extremely hot extremely fast. My raw alu E07 just on stock top of ramp still reaches 50C in like 2-3 mins. Holding a light that’s batt tube is 40+ degrees after a minute wouldn’t be worth the baller bling imo

twisted raven
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Joined: 03/13/2016 - 11:10
Posts: 508
Location: texas

TI doesn’t conduct anywhere near as well as aluminum yet alone copper.

Tally-ho
Tally-ho's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 07/23/2011 - 04:15
Posts: 1384
Location: France

mattadores wrote:
My raw alu E07 just on stock top of ramp still reaches 50C in like 2-3 mins.

You should be cautious not using turbo too often and for too long if you didn’t correct the LEDs MCPCB because it is not sitting properly on the head’s shelf and the heat isn’t evacuated properly to the flashlight’s body. Particularly if yours is the Nichia which heats up very quickly.
Tally-ho
Tally-ho's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 07/23/2011 - 04:15
Posts: 1384
Location: France

The little sister, FireFlies E01

“15mm thick integrated shelf” Shocked

amars7
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 days ago
Joined: 05/13/2018 - 23:51
Posts: 58
Location: Western U.S.

Just saw that and came here looking for answers. Doesn't look like there are any yet.

 

That optic though... That's sexy.

BOMBAY
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 6 hours ago
Joined: 04/24/2016 - 10:07
Posts: 188
Location: Polska

it looks like the black version had a slightly different optics

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4115
Location: US

Wonder if they can give us a direct front shot of the optic and a disassembled pic to see how the mcpcb looks like.

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 46 min ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 2453
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

Nice idea but one has to be careful with the SST40. koef3 discovered that the bonding wires already burn with about 9A and more than 7.4A are not reasonable. However, maybe the N5 flux bin is less sensitive to overcurrent than N4 tested by koef3.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58900

Tally-ho
Tally-ho's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 07/23/2011 - 04:15
Posts: 1384
Location: France

@SKV89, what do you have in mind ?
Personnally with a “big” TIR, i’m immediately thinking to Clemence’s VR21SP4 MCPCB with the hope to find a frosted compatible TIR.

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4115
Location: US

Tally Ho, that is exactly what I have in mind.

Tally-ho
Tally-ho's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 07/23/2011 - 04:15
Posts: 1384
Location: France

Big Smile

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4115
Location: US

I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5544
Location: Canada

Sadly, it can’t really be the driver.

It must be the LEDs getting super hot, but the light throttling down too soon.

The 1st gen didn’t have a good flat MCPCB with very poor thermal paste contact. That means the LEDs could easily be at extremely high temps without you knowing.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4115
Location: US

I take measurements at 2second so it doesn’t throttle down. Just very strange.

Newlumen
Newlumen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 05/27/2017 - 00:19
Posts: 2092
Location: United states

I havent notice any lumen decrease on my e07 xpl hi.. i got 7150, and 7310 lumen in two seperate measurement.

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4115
Location: US
Newlumen wrote:
I havent notice any lumen decrease on my e07 xpl hi.. i got 7150, and 7310 lumen in two seperate measurement.

Do you leave batteries inside your E07? I’ve kept the aux lights on for half a year. Not sure if that is causing the lower output because the one that dropped output the most, I almost never use it.

Newlumen
Newlumen's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 05/27/2017 - 00:19
Posts: 2092
Location: United states

I click 3 times to do battery check and it was 3.9v and putting around high 5600 lumen.

clbell
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 05/03/2019 - 09:23
Posts: 8

Does anyone know if the LEDs on the switch can be programmed individually?

TrueRMS
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/09/2013 - 13:24
Posts: 306
Location: Middle of nowhere OH

clbell wrote:
Does anyone know if the LEDs on the switch can be programmed individually?

No, 2 are always on and the other 2 respond to FW (along with the main aux led’s in the head)
Ekstasis
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 12/26/2017 - 14:32
Posts: 71

SKV89 wrote:
I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

Do you have any fresh cells to compare with ?
That they drop in lumens and if its not cell related does sound worrying… especially after such little use…
I am little bit disappointed with the lack of scientific reviews and tests. Sure… there was a kind of big flood of reviews earlier this year..but honestly..it feel like
all those old reviews are not as relevant today because manufacturing process have changed since then, we should see now much improved thermal performance for instance.
The most hardcore flashholics nad reviews did buy it very earily when it still had some manufacturing problems which should be fixed now… it would be interesting to see how the thermal performance compare with those that are sold today.

it feels like the E07 is not as hot anymore in terms of discussions etc, maybe people are just waiting for the astrolux MF01 Mini, which now seem to be delayed… if I am going to pull the trigger and buy the e07 it would be more confident how to see how the older version and the newer versions compare… it seem many of those flaws people have complained about have been fixed…

Fireflies had E07 IV on their banner for a short time..now its gone… I wonder if they will release a E07 with this branding so one can be confident that you don’t get something from the old batch (which I think is probably unlikely if you buy from their official store), but if they only have E07 from latest batch with perfected manufacturing I would not see why they would not rebrand it so people know its an updated version.

SKV89
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 4 min ago
Joined: 12/10/2017 - 12:46
Posts: 4115
Location: US

I just did a thorough cleaning with alcohol on both the flashlight and batteries and the lumens went back up but not back to brand new level though. With fresh off the charger 30T, it is now making 6,896 lumens instead of 7,327 lumens. With 40T, it is now making 6,424 lumens instead of 7,017 lumens. This is the flashlight I don’t use often.

The one I used often, the XP-L HI 5A also dropped from 6,465 to 5,991 lumens using 30T. But then 6,465 lumens was measured after it was already heavily used.

I’m guessing the cause is the void between the mcpcb and shelf due to inadequate thermal paste might result in the emitters overheating at those extremely high currents. I’m thinking E07 version 2 with adequate thermal paste should prevent the emitter degradation, especially with the upcoming copper version, the emitters should be pretty safe.

AnhTran
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/13/2017 - 23:56
Posts: 179
Location: Australia

SKV89 wrote:
I just did a thorough cleaning with alcohol on both the flashlight and batteries and the lumens went back up but not back to brand new level though. With fresh off the charger 30T, it is now making 6,896 lumens instead of 7,327 lumens. With 40T, it is now making 6,424 lumens instead of 7,017 lumens. This is the flashlight I don’t use often.

The one I used often, the XP-L HI 5A also dropped from 6,465 to 5,991 lumens using 30T. But then 6,465 lumens was measured after it was already heavily used.

I’m guessing the cause is the void between the mcpcb and shelf due to inadequate thermal paste might result in the emitters overheating at those extremely high currents. I’m thinking E07 version 2 with adequate thermal paste should prevent the emitter degradation, especially with the upcoming copper version, the emitters should be pretty safe.


may be the resistance of the flashlight somehow increased. Next time when you do the lumen test you should measure the current as well.

[update]
i found this picture that might explain your situation

BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5544
Location: Canada

What Nitecore says doesn’t matter.

The BeCu springs inside of the are well below 30mOhms.

Of course its resistance would increase to 100mOhms. The spring would be melting at the kind of current Nitecore was pusing.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

AnhTran
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/13/2017 - 23:56
Posts: 179
Location: Australia

BlueSwordM wrote:
What Nitecore says doesn’t matter.

The BeCu springs inside of the are well below 30mOhms.

Of course its resistance would increase to 100mOhms. The spring would be melting at the kind of current Nitecore was pusing.


I use this picture because it has a hint that might explain SKV89’s problem that his E07 reduce brightness overtime. i think the contact might be oxidised so resistant increase.
BlueSwordM
BlueSwordM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 11/29/2017 - 12:34
Posts: 5544
Location: Canada

No, it’s not that. Gold plated contacts don’t oxidize unless the metal underneath melts.

And since the E07 is very recent, the E07 wire/traces/springs can’t really degrade much electrically, so it must actually be the LEDs that are stressed out.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

AnhTran
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/13/2017 - 23:56
Posts: 179
Location: Australia

BlueSwordM wrote:
No, it’s not that. Gold plated contacts don’t oxidize unless the metal underneath melts.

And since the E07 is very recent, the E07 wire/traces/springs can’t really degrade much electrically, so it must actually be the LEDs that are stressed out.


maybe the contact between body tube and tailcap, between tube and the driver is worn out after screwing-unscrewing many times, that why it can be oxidized
contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 3436
Location: US

Plus the top spring is bypassed with a big mess of solder. That isn’t gold.. Batteries and other contacts can get plenty dirty without being oxidized.

contactcr
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 05/19/2017 - 18:52
Posts: 3436
Location: US

Has no one tried to retrofit a new, more clicky, e-switch on this light yet?

Ekstasis
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 12/26/2017 - 14:32
Posts: 71

I did order my E07 couple of days ago. I did check out as guest. I have asked about the tracking number how long can you expect to wait until you get a reply?

Pages