#48
Is says Nichia E21A - the little ones around the main reflector.
For the UI, the one Nitecore uses on the EC4 series is fantastic, but it doesn’t have any way to change between flood and throw - that definitely clutters things a bit.
I would suggest staying away from built in charging and the OLED. There are almost no AA lights with built in charging for a reason, and the screen is just a point of failure and a major design challenge. The two combined don’t bode well for water resistance or AA support.
The idea to use Nichia NVSWE21A (sm453 r9080) was based on hope that it would be possible to create design of Sofirn’s DCF01 inspired by Muyshondt Beagle MK. I and McGizmo ls20.
The design was sent to Barry and his response was:
‘What I can say is to get high CRI E21A is not a issue, Sofirn will handle it.
One main led surrounded by 4 E21A can be done but that make it a expensive light’
I asked how much would it cost and Barry promised to come back with a rough price.
Unfortunately Sofirn is worrying that it would make the flashlight too pricey for possible BLF Group Buy and later for average customer.
For this GB to happen it needs to secure 500 pieces in orders.
Same happened to the idea of taking some inspiration from this camera (Would be nice to have a rotary switch):
Therefore quest for a shape that would allow this flashlight to be manufactured at reasonably price continues.
As this flashlight (with it’s accessories) is intended to be really nice gift bundle the need for a nice feature emerged.
Maybe… a battery indicator like the one below?
And than… I stumbled on ttever3’s mod:
Barry’s reaction: ‘To add a lcd display to show how much juice left is a good design for muggles.’
It’s hard to find a muggle who doesn’t prefer USB charging and that’s one among other things that will make DCF01 a perfect gift flashlight.
We are building here something unique, second to none 2AA head-turning flashlight. The sort of thing that everyone deserves, but most people won’t buy for themselves — therefore a perfect gift. Great for any outdoor adventures as well as for all kind of indoor activities. By putting OLED we already made it more appealing to potential customers. By adding USB charging convenience (with information on display of time remaining to fully charged) we are making their choice of proper flashlight even easier for them.
The question will be asked by many:
What happens when someone makes the mistake of trying to recharge the AA primary batteries inside the light?
Well… First of all, there will be rechargeable batteries in the bundle/kit and rechargeable batteries recommendation printed both on the box and inside manual. Possible leakage or explosion from overheating will be shown in pictures in manual and put in CAPITAL LETTERS.
The flashlight will be designed to work on alkaline batteries, but ONLY in emergency situations. It will be not advised to use alkaline batteries on daily basis.
Any type of power source requires intelligence to be used safely. It really doesn’t matter if it’s Alkaline, NiMH or Li-ion.The risk of someone accidentally charging an alkaline in this light is not any more than someone accidentally charging an alkaline in a stand alone charger. If it’s really that big of a risk, there won’t be any consumer AA chargers on the market. I think warning stickers and labels should be adequate.
At the beginning there was an idea of removable pocket clip. Something like this:
But than I heard of Frelux Synergy 1 and the more I’m thinking about it’s clip the more I like it. I also like a small width of the knob.
Another light that can be used as an inspiration is Acebeam UC15: https://imgur.com/a/1IoGTyC
We could change it a bit and use a clip and a knob similar to one used in Frelux Synergy 1:
Did this go anywhere? Is Sofirn working on it?
If it is not an issue to get E21A, I hope that they will use it for new or already existing flashlights real soon.
I prefer stepless.
I think stepless is really easy for all to understand and get the right light level, especially with separate buttons for up and down. I like the memory with shortcuts to low and high that you have for both UI’s. In the bottom left of the stepless UI, the description of how to change emitters says to hold, on the right it shows a short press.
I like the general look of the light, but would prefer that the thickness was uniform and minimized, 2 cm or less, to fit comfortably in more pockets. The clip that attaches under the screw on the end ought to work well for deep carry.
Thank you 1332332331!
Updated:
Full size: https://i.imgur.com/FYwG7Gl.jpg
Some more questions:
- What about Power button
?
Which emitter should be turned on? Upper (throw) or lower (flood) emitter? Both?
2) What about double click 
?
What functionality should be implemented? Or should we leave the double click inactive?
3) If needed - bicycle mode could be activated/deactivated by prolonged press (6 minutes?)
Is it necessary?
Will take a look at the UI and will try to give some feedback! I completely forgot to tell you something about this 
Earlier you said that even rude comments were welcome. This may look it is, but it is not intended as such.
I thought this thread was about reviving one (or some) of the iconic primitive flashlights that we remember from our youth(s). And can serve as the start of an addiction to a whole new breed of flashaholics. Flashlights with parts that are more contemporary, but without changing the original character. With a price that has gone up from the historic $1 to $5-$10 today. Part of those historic lights was the ultimate simple UI. Most of those had a momentary switch that could be fixated. That’s all. Perfect for novices and for those who will never transcend that level. Lights that last half a lifetime, at least in our minds.
You present us a well-thought, but not-very-simple, UI. That’s a bit beyond the original scope (IMHO).
But we all do remember the Sofirn C01, that without much delay was succeeded by the Sofirn C01S.
From an on-off twistie with a 5mm led into a small light with adult character as greatest common denominator of our wishes. That’s why I propose to reserve your UI for implementation in the S-version of this revival light.
So, I took a look at the last UI you posted!
I general I like it, but I have some doubts and comments. I didn’t read the whole thread, so please ignore questions that could have been answered before! I start with the the end:
- “runs on single AA battery”: Alkaline and Ni-MH? Also, this is just to inform that 1 single cell will power the flashlight, but it will not achieve the lumens it is supposed to with 2 cells, right?
- “low voltage protection”: when the battery is low. The over-heat protection will be something different, I guess.
- “over-discharge protection”: hum, this is more related to Ni-MH cells, right. Will the flashlight be able to “notice” when they are below the levels they’re supposed to? Is 0.9V the ideal for Ni-MH?
UI
- click for ON/OFF in button 2 = 
:+1:
- shortcuts from ON/OFF to ML (button 1) and High (button 2) =
- two buttons to UP and DOWN brightness by Press & Hold =
- Possibility to start on ML and keep on “ramping up” the light till the desired level =
- Possibility to on High and keep on “ramping down” the light till the desired level =
Doubts:
- Press & Hold Button 1 - from OFF it will enter Moonlight without having to press button 2, right? If so, shouldn’t the dotted arrow in the scheme be red instead of black?
- Stepless dimming - will it be fast enough so that people don’t get “bored” with choosing brightness? Meaning: most of the lights I have with that system take a while and are not fast as a ramping UI. Just wanted to be sure on this
- Will the flashlight memorize the emitter(s) we have selected in our previous use?
- The part mentioning the that High will “step down to Low 10 minutes after power OFF”, is this a safety “don’t blind anyone” measure?
- About the lumens, will it always be 608 lumens with one or two emitters? Meaning, if I use the light with 1 emitter I will get 608 lumens and if I use it with two will it also be 608 lumens?
Concerns:
- As Henk4U2 mentioned, isn’t this UI too complicated for muggle people? Pressing ON/OFF in the button 2 and cycling between three well spaced and useful modes (L-M-H) through singles clicks in button 1 would be easier. This is more a flashaholic UI, even if we think it is simple!
- Not sure if adding “blinkies” such as bike strobe or strobe is very useful. Still if so, let it be hidden and not accessible by double clicks (triple or more clicks).
- The single clicks on button 1 to change emitters is a smart move - as we may wrongly “click” that button and still have light, just with a different beam - but wouldn’t double clicking on button 1 be more appropriate for this?
Sorry if some of the questions are dumb, but I am just trying to perceive how I would feel with this light in the hand.
And good work so far 
Great initiative!
In my opinion:
Warm white or neutral white Nichia E21A: yes please!
Side by side 2AA light: yes please, formfactor with great ergonomics and look.
And most mportant: KISS
Keep It Super Simple.
To create a simple design that works well is no simple task.
Less components means lower costs, less things to go wrong or break, and higher reliability and robustness as a consequence.
No LCD display. I think most people understand they should change batteries when the light gets dim. A LED voltage indicator in the button would be good enough.
Please also keep the UI as simple as possible.
And use something that always starts on low.
Produce the simple version first.
If that works out, develop a second “improved” version.
Interesting thought experiment: would a slemi-permanent slide-diffuser a la Manker E02H work as well as two different emitters and reflectors? But with a cheaper, simpler design?
I disagree.. make it smart and simple people will understand it . We're not here to make stupid lights that stupid people can understand . there are a hundred thousand of them all over ebay for $6.
If you're taking the time to do it, do it right .
Make it say BLF on it ... let them steal it after and call it whatever they want .
Make it a High Cri light with a great tint ..let them screw it up with cheap C.W. emitters later.
Assuming the second version will be better than the first means you just screwed up the first time .
As much as I like the UI you've designed, I know if I handed a light like that to my dad he would get frustrated. I think if we simplified the UI, it could be the kind of light people would pick up at Target (next to Energizer's LED lights and whatever else) and truly like it when they get home. Not that I really expect Sofirn to end up in Target, although it would be cool if they did.
@Boaz. Groucho Marx once said: I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
There are not many “clubs’” that have asked me to join them. And Mensa was certainly not one of them.
But I would feel very unconfortable if all those stupid lights on Ebay actually were bought by stupid people.
Or by young people who are not yet able to make up sound decisions or elderly people who lost that ability.
So let’s give them a light that let you and me sleep (separate) at night with a clear concience.
For I still remember my father being unable to manage simple things like using the zipper of his pants.
Days later they had to hoist him out of a foundation trench near the locked psych ward he was committed to.
EDIT: Don’t worry. Just some bruised ego’s. Including the management of the institution he “escaped” from.
This looks to break a couple of common UI paradigms we’re all used to, and having only 3 modes seems very limiting - even Olight uses 3 plus hidden turbo and moonlight.
I would start by looking at how Nitecore does two button UIs on their EC4 series of lights - you’re already using the same form factor and symbols on the switches. Most importantly, they use holding the mode switch as momentary Turbo from either on or off, which is incredibly useful.
For the emitters used at turn on, if you’re sticking with throw and flood I would go with memory of the last used mode - but I’m not sure the throw will be focused enough to justify a separate flood emitter on a light this sized.
I totally agree with you: Sturgeon’s law also holds true for flashlights. The horror! The horror!
However: if something/somebody is smart, simple, or stupid: who am I to judge?
Such perceived qualities are relative to context.
Most of the flashlight muggles that I personally know, are absolutely not stupid, they just have other priorities than most flashaholics.
Personally, I have no clue at all what “regular people” would prefer as user interface for a flashlight.
I know what I like in flashlight design, but how to design for people who are very differently?
I am not sure if in this thread by now consensus is reached about the actual target audience(s) of a resurrected Duracell Durabeam.
Nonetheless, some suggestions for designing flashlights for non-flashaholics.
Suggestion 1: Test with users
If the target audience for this light is non-flasholics then test a prototype with actual non-flashaholic people as users.
The people can be anyone: family members, friends, neighbours, random people in the street, colleagues.
Let people test the user interface, the ergonomics, the beam.
Let them try to turn it on, and off, or change modes.
Let them try to change the batteries, and let them put in the batteries backwards.
Let them drop the light on the ground. :person_facepalming:
Let them rejoice in high-cri goodness. 
Let them stare into the flashlight while they turn it on. :innocent:
Observe how they respond to the flashlight.
Ask them what they think of it.
And what could be improved.
Even better, let them actually use it for a while; and then let them report back.
Or let them film their actual use themselves; watch it back together with them, and discuss what you saw.
Aim for maximum diversity of people included from as many categories as possible: young children, teenagers, non-technical people, workmen, elderly people, disabled people, people who fear technology, gadget lovers. Perhaps even include flashaholics
User testing results in better designs.
Users are not stupid, even if they have other priorities or perspectives.
As Alay Kay stated: “A change of perspective is worth 80 IQ points.”
Suggestion 2: Iterative design
Learn from your mistakes.
Try to make the best, and then test.
And then aim to improve useability.
In the words of Jakob Nielsen, make stuff that is:
Suggestion 3: Cute design
Give the design character, so people can establish a connection with it.
Flashaholics attach to flashlights in different ways than non-flashaholics.
Make it look cute, friendly, fun.
Make the body white, yellow, or hi-viz orange.
Give it a face, literally.
Make it look non-technical.
Just my two cents.
There's a few questions that dictate how simple or complicated the UI must be.
How many switches/buttons/whatever will there be? It looks like currently two e-switches.
Will there be fixed modes, ramping, or both? Personally, I have no problem with well-designed fixed modes. These should be based on the lumen output and the human perception of brightness (four times the lumens looks twice as bright). I've seen some bad lights with modes based on linear current values, like 0.5A, 1.5A, 2.5A.
Who is the actual target audience? If it's enthusiasts, you can go hog-wild on the interface. You could have a "simple" front-end with a hidden advanced mode. If it's not, then you need to make sure that if someone picks up the light and starts clicking, they will not only a) figure it out, but b) not end up in some configuration menu somewhere (sorry Anduril, I still love you). This also to some extent dictates what types of interactions you can have. For a muggle, you can probably only really use "click" and "click and hold", because they'll tend to rapid-click and they'll struggle with the interface if their clicks do different things at different times.
I'm currently leaning towards mode-based (not ramping) with two switches that have different purposes. An early idea I had was to use two switches, one per emitter. It's very simple, and basically turns it into a "two-flashlight" problem with the normal one-flashlight-one-button UI problems; those are well-addressed already in many lights and I could return to that and give a finished sample quickly. But I kind of like the other one better.
I'd like some feedback, though, on the bolded questions. For now:
- Power button: Turns on, turns up, turns off.
- Click from off to turn on at low (last emitter used)
- While on:
- Click to cycle brightness modes L->M->H (IMO 3 is enough, more is too much for muggles)
- Click and hold to turn off. (Important that the hold is not too long, as this feature can frustrate some users)
- Emitter button: Changes active emitter
- What should a click from off do?
- While on:
- Click to switch between flood and throw
- Click and hold to toggle "both emitters" mode on/off
- So, if you're on flood, this toggles the throw emitter while leaving flood on.
- If you're on throw, this toggles the flood emitter while leaving throw on.
- Also remaining unused is possible functions for "both switches at once"
I think this should be a muggle friendly light that even your great grandma can easily use. Muggle friendly flashlights with good performance and features like hi cri is almost non existant. The best one I can think of is the Thrunite Archer. All the flashlights with good performance, tint, cri are all catered to enthusiasts. Even BLF lights with Anduril and Narsil are too complicated for most muggles from my experience.
I’m hoping this light will be successful and allow Sofirn to get some good reviews from non flashlight gadget review sites and gain recognition by the general (non flashaholic) public like Maglite, Duracell, Energizer but with better features and performance.