FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

[Neal]

I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this.

Give me some time now.

[Dep668]

@Neal

I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this.

Give me some time now.

Have the FW3A with the new SST-20 switched over to the new optics already? Or is this for orders in the near future?

[Klayking]

Thanks Neal, we all appreciate it!

Will the Turboglow gasket fit under this new optic? I have ordered one of the gaskets from your store along with a new FW3C and a clear Carclo optic, but now I’m not so sure that I’ll be able to use either the gasket or the Carclo optic. It all depends on if the FW3C still has the glass lens.

[acab]

I think one way to find a temporary agreeable solution would be:

- Offer a 30 $ variant for people in the groupbuy (with code) and use the cheaper lens/optic combination, this could also be the “mainstream product” for everyone else outside of TLF/BLF

- Simultaneously, offer the real glass lens with Carclo optics for 32 $ (with code)

This is just an idea, of course, but it might be able to solve the cost and complexity reduction effort at hand. At some point Lumintop can switch the entire run to a lens/optic combination after the groupbuy is “closed” or “has ended”.

[DooMMasteR]

My first, warm white, FW3A arrived today.
I ordered two of them, but I guess I’ll have to wait longer for the second to arrive.
Anyways, quite happy with it so far… But damn it’s getting hot quicker than a two dollar pistol.

FW3A unboxing and look around

[Paul321]

@Dep668

Now im on the fence of picking up a pair with sst20’s. Assuming it will come with the new optic.

Same here, now the cost goes up because Lumintop lowered their cost. Are the customers expected to buy a replacement optic and lens, to have what should be there in the first place?

[Dr.Tautology]

@Neal

Lumintop change the optics to this , The beam is pretty though. smooth, and it has good color consistency.from Selene’s sample.

They already assembly to the FW3A, so if some one not accept this,let me know.

I also have 10507 optics and sapphire lens in sell.

If I receive this garbage I’ll be disputing the charges with my credit card company.

[zak.wilson (Zak)]

@Geuzzz

I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products.

There are two related and sometimes competing things manufacturers do along these lines:

• Value engineering - looking for opportunities to reduce production cost. These may or may not have a customer-visible impact on the product. It must be done very carefully if it will.
• Continuous quality improvement - looking for opportunities to make the product work better, like replacing the non-rustproof screws on the otherwise rustproof knife with rustproof ones.

In this case, Lumintop has made a value engineering change by replacing a part that was explicitly specified by make and model with something else with different performance characteristics. They did this without approval from their customer (Neal). I don’t know anything about Chinese law, but in the US, Neal could sue them.

I do think Neal should be contacting customers with pending orders directly to offer them the opportunity to cancel at a minimum. The option of a free 10511 optic and lens installed by Neal prior to shipping would be better. That would cost Neal money of course, and he should demand that Lumintop cover his costs.

[justanotherguy]

@Neal

I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this.

Give me some time now.

nice
I was going to get a copper 3D …kinda bummed about buying a carlco and glass lens separately

[Dr.Tautology]

Same here. Neal’s website still states that it has a glass lens with carclo optic. So guess what? If you get anything other than that, dispute charges.

[Geuzzz]

@zak.wilson

@Geuzzz

I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products.

There are two related and sometimes competing things manufacturers do along these lines:

• Value engineering - looking for opportunities to reduce production cost. These may or may not have a customer-visible impact on the product. It must be done very carefully if it will.
• Continuous quality improvement - looking for opportunities to make the product work better, like replacing the non-rustproof screws on the otherwise rustproof knife with rustproof ones.

In this case, Lumintop has made a value engineering change by replacing a part that was explicitly specified by make and model with something else with different performance characteristics. They did this without approval from their customer (Neal). I don’t know anything about Chinese law, but in the US, Neal could sue them.

I do think Neal should be contacting customers with pending orders directly to offer them the opportunity to cancel at a minimum. The option of a free 10511 optic and lens installed by Neal prior to shipping would be better. That would cost Neal money of course, and he should demand that Lumintop cover his costs.

Or you can consider it continuous improvement, lean even. If this was necessary to keep up with demands and have a good supplier of this essential part.

I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

[Bob_McBob]

@Geuzzz

I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

That’s because they changed it in the last couple days. The colour of the clip in the product photos has also been altered.

[Geuzzz]

@Bob_McBob

@Geuzzz

I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

That’s because they changed it in the last couple days. The colour of the clip in the product photos has also been altered.

Well that is indeed misleading.

[BlueSwordM]

Wait, did I just see that they removed the glass lens?!

Ok what? How is that a good design decision?

The optic will get scratched that way…

[jasontheguitarist]

@Geuzzz

@zak.wilson

@Geuzzz

I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products.

There are two related and sometimes competing things manufacturers do along these lines:

• Value engineering - looking for opportunities to reduce production cost. These may or may not have a customer-visible impact on the product. It must be done very carefully if it will.
• Continuous quality improvement - looking for opportunities to make the product work better, like replacing the non-rustproof screws on the otherwise rustproof knife with rustproof ones.

In this case, Lumintop has made a value engineering change by replacing a part that was explicitly specified by make and model with something else with different performance characteristics. They did this without approval from their customer (Neal). I don’t know anything about Chinese law, but in the US, Neal could sue them.

I do think Neal should be contacting customers with pending orders directly to offer them the opportunity to cancel at a minimum. The option of a free 10511 optic and lens installed by Neal prior to shipping would be better. That would cost Neal money of course, and he should demand that Lumintop cover his costs.

Or you can consider it continuous improvement, lean even. If this was necessary to keep up with demands and have a good supplier of this essential part.

I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

Lumintop does say “standard TIR optic” This all in one plastic thing they have created isn’t “standard”

To me, in a technology context, standard implies it’s an easily attained part that can be swapped out. A proprietary part created specifically for this flashlight isn’t “standard” at all.

[justanotherguy]

well i have the copper 3D in my cart…not sure I will pull the trigger if it doesnt come carlco/glass

[BlueSwordM]

Yeah.

The change in optic can be understood, but completely removing the lens?

I should’ve just ordered the 1st XP-L HI lights, then modded it with SST-20s.

This is getting more disappointing by the minute.

[thisnameisvalid]

Anyone found sources for 23mm AR lenses yet?

[zak.wilson (Zak)]

The clip looks like it’s a different color on Lumintop’s site too. I really like the (acid wash?) dark finish on mine and would definitely prefer to have that when I buy more.

Well… if I buy more. There’s an Emisar D4 v2 coming up, and Hank doesn’t cheap out like Lumintop seems to be, even when he reduces the price (the D4 was introduced at $40, which was later reduced to $35). I was concerned that early FW3As might have problems that later ones would not, but it’s looking like the opposite is true.

[acab]

I have seen car manufacturers change entire global supplier agreements (these were legal contracts drafted and signed for several years) because the new parts were a few US cents cheaper. The supplier was forced to sign a new agreement. Even pennies will add up over thousands of products and SKUs.

The glass lens and Carclo optic are probably expensive, not always easy to source, and have a 100% take rate (every light sold has them/needs them, so not optional).

While most of us probably don’t want a new lens/optics combo, from an engineering point of view it is a good way to ensure an almost identical product outcome while saving a lot of money.

You could also use a cheaper aluminum source, cheaper parts for the driver, a cheaper clip or drop it entirely, re-design the inner tube and make it skinnier and a more permanent part of the assembly, replace the metal switch with a rubber boot, and do a lot more!