The making of the BLF UC4 charger: the start of a new venture, INTEREST LIST, UPDATE 3(Finalized UI and starting design)

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DavidEF
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Nowadays, a small 100W switched mode power supply can be bought on eBay for well under $20, even under $10 for some. A 60W USB-PD adapter is $25 on eBay. If that’s the case, how much would it cost the manufacturer to include a 60W power supply with this charger? I’d think it could be done pretty reasonably, since it would be selling along with the cell charger, not stand-alone. Whatever this charger needs for power, it should come with it. Other “features” can be cut to save cost, but how do you justify selling a “charger” that requires you to buy another “charger” to power it? Facepalm

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Joshk
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BlueSwordM
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A 60W USB PD power supply would be nice.

I’m going to be trying to include it.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

BlueSwordM
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Guys, I’ll also try working with XTAR if possible.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

klrman
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Talked to SkyRC in the past.  Hope you have better luck as they seem just so not interested in doing any improvements to their MC3000 let alone a new charger that undercuts their price structure.  

CLB
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BlueSwordM wrote:
A 60W USB PD power supply would be nice. Going to be trying to include it.

Good, thank you. Someday, I suppose everyone will already have a drawerful of USB-C PD adapters for their other devices, but we are not there yet.

BlueSwordM wrote:
Guys, I’ll also try working with XTAR if possible.

Also good. The Dragon has shown that Xtar has some ambitions for an analyzing charger, and their quality seems (perhaps prejudicially on my part) higher than most of the other Chinese brands.
mrheosuper
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DavidEF wrote:
Nowadays, a small 100W switched mode power supply can be bought on eBay for well under $20, even under $10 for some. A 60W USB-PD adapter is $25 on eBay. If that’s the case, how much would it cost the manufacturer to include a 60W power supply with this charger? I’d think it could be done pretty reasonably, since it would be selling along with the cell charger, not stand-alone. Whatever this charger needs for power, it should come with it. Other “features” can be cut to save cost, but how do you justify selling a “charger” that requires you to buy another “charger” to power it? Facepalm

the $20 100w psu you are mentioning is unsafe and bulky, a $25 PD charger is usually safer and “friendlier”, you can also use it to charge your phone or laptop if yours supports.

but as i said, 60W PD charger is over kill, a 45W is more reasonable, you still can charger more than 10W per slot( or nearly 3A per slot), and it doesn’t cost much, i guess less than $10 if we buy many.

Forgot my pen

DavidEF
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mrheosuper wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
Nowadays, a small 100W switched mode power supply can be bought on eBay for well under $20, even under $10 for some. A 60W USB-PD adapter is $25 on eBay. If that’s the case, how much would it cost the manufacturer to include a 60W power supply with this charger? I’d think it could be done pretty reasonably, since it would be selling along with the cell charger, not stand-alone. Whatever this charger needs for power, it should come with it. Other “features” can be cut to save cost, but how do you justify selling a “charger” that requires you to buy another “charger” to power it? Facepalm

the $20 100w psu you are mentioning is unsafe and bulky, a $25 PD charger is usually safer and “friendlier”, you can also use it to charge your phone or laptop if yours supports.

but as i said, 60W PD charger is over kill, a 45W is more reasonable, you still can charger more than 10W per slot( or nearly 3A per slot), and it doesn’t cost much, i guess less than $10 if we buy many.


The 100w power supply I was thinking of is simply cheap. No comment from me on whether it is good or not. I’m sure the 60w PD charger I found is higher quality. But my point was that for a manufacturer, it should be even cheaper to include a PD charger with the battery charger, which you seem to agree with. Also, I don’t want a power source included that doesn’t power up every feature of the device it is supposed to be supplying power to. If the battery charger BlueSwordM creates is a 60w device, it should include at least a 60w power supply.

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Joshk
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Yes, we understand you want the pimped version to be no additional cost. But it should also appeal to the kind of beginner that only needs to charge 1 battery at a time. If we force a 60w power supply into the price you may drive them away.

teacher
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It cannot be everything to everyone. If someone just has one battery to charge, is this really the charger for them?? Just asking a serious question, not arguing. Thumbs Up

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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Joshk
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I agree it can not be everything to everybody. But there are economies-of-scale to be gained by offering at least 2 feature sets. And both versions become cheaper than if there was only one version.

ossifrage
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This looks like an excellent project. Definitely interested.

Joshk
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I agree, excellent project. It’s barely started and I want one Smile
It’s going to be a long road, a lot longer than a flashlight I think.

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Take my MONEY!!

DavidEF
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Joshk wrote:
Yes, we understand you want the pimped version to be no additional cost. But it should also appeal to the kind of beginner that only needs to charge 1 battery at a time. If we force a 60w power supply into the price you may drive them away.

No, what I want is for it to be a good value and to make sense. If we can’t afford to include a 60w power supply, then we should NOT make it a 60w device. If we really need it to be a 60w device, then we should include a 60w power supply. To include a power supply that cannot power the device fully would be just asking for disgruntled users and high return rate, which would then sour the manufacturer on working with us again.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
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BlueSwordM
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Yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I want to stick with either using a 5,5*2,5mm DC input jack.

If we go with USB-C PD, then it would be best to make a model with an included power supply that would be more expensive, and one without.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
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Joshk wrote:
I agree it can not be everything to everybody. But there are economies-of-scale to be gained by offering at least 2 feature sets. And both versions become cheaper than if there was only one version.
Ok… I thought you were suggesting having one set geared at the lowest common denominator, for the beginner.

The only problems I see with having a set that will not power the charger to full capacity is confusion, misunderstandings, & ultimate headaches for the seller.

‘To me’ one set that powers the charger to the fullest is the way to go. If it is an 80w charger (<- used as example only) a power supply of at least 80w should be included.

If there were an option without power supply, that would be OK too.

I do not think running/frightening off beginners/new people because of price should factor into this decision. There are plenty of very decent chargers out there already that meet their needs.

ymmv

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

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Joshk
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I was thinking along of the lines of:

Option 1: Pimped charger. Full featured with a 60 watt power supply and 100 watt CPU cooler included.
Option 2: Basic charger. Same PCB and software, but only includes a 10 watt power supply and no CPU cooler.

BlueSwordM
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I’d change a bit more.

Option 1: The Ultimate BLF charger. Aluminium body with a 100mm fan inside, and 60W discharging compatibility. The dream, but will take a LOT OF TIME AND ENGINEERING.

Option 2: A Miboxer C4-12 BLF edition or an XTAR BLF edition charger.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Joshk
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Joshk wrote:

Option 1: Pimped charger. Full featured with a 60 watt power supply and 100 watt CPU cooler included.

Option 2: Basic charger. Same PCB and software, but only includes a 10 watt power supply and no CPU cooler.

To clarify, I was suggesting these would both be in production at the end of the project. It would be the same guts, just sold in different ways.

BlueSwordM wrote:
I’d change a bit more.

Option 1: The Ultimate BLF charger. Aluminium body with a 100mm fan inside, and 60W discharging compatibility. The dream, but will take a LOT OF TIME AND ENGINEERING.

Option 2: A Miboxer C4-12 BLF edition or an XTAR BLF edition charger.

Ideally we could work with a manufacturer to evolve a charger they currently produce.

bmengineer
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BlueSwordM wrote:
I’d change a bit more.

Option 1: The Ultimate BLF charger. Aluminium body with a 100mm fan inside, and 60W discharging compatibility. The dream, but will take a LOT OF TIME AND ENGINEERING.

Erm.. I think there’s a reason we don’t use conductive materials for chargers, and I don’t think it’s cost savings. I’d steer clear of this particular idea.

Find all my reviews of flashlights and more gear at www.bmengineer.com

moderator007
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@bmengineer
All the hobby chargers I have had used a aluminum casing to dissipate the heat. The casing is not electrically connected, it just a big heatsink containing all the electronic goody’s. Desktop Computers and the power supply’s in them are made the same way.

CLB
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Option 1: The Ultimate BLF charger. Aluminium body with a 100mm fan inside, and 60W discharging compatibility.

Option 2: The Ultimate BLF charger. Aluminium body with a 100mm fan inside, and 60W discharging compatibility.

Ditto for option 3. Wink

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Both USB PD and DC are standards.

I have a powerful universal DC PSU, so with a jack I don’t need a separate charger.
I don’t have a USB PD one but since it’s standard I don’t need one included. I’m likely to be buying one that is better than whatever gets included here anyway at some point.

I think that it would be nice to offer a variant without a PSU. Especially with USB PD.

teacher
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EDCba wrote:
Great to see 10180 support.

BlueSwordM wrote:

4. 4 cell channels, with support for AAA sized cells all the way to the largest 21700/26650/D cells up to 78mm length.

Is this charger going to support 10180 size batteries or not? Just curious.

It looks to my semi untrained eye it would be pita to create slides & springs to accommodate battery sizes from 18mm to 78mm in length without sacrificing reliability somewhere along the way. Question

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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Th558
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If the fan is powerful enough it can have a built in hovering feature.

BlueSwordM
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@teacher, never talked about 10180 support.
It would be nice to support, but something like a small charging module sold separately that can connect directly to the USB port would be better.

@Th558, would be nice, but the power supply would need to be upped to 160W.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

teacher
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@ BlueSwordM
Thank you for the verification. I had seen a few mention it like it was a done deal for 10180 support & was curious since I could not find where you had mentioned it.
Personally I saw no need for it at all.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

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BlueSwordM wrote:
10. Low voltage recovery Below 2,5V, charge at 150mA. Below 2,0V, charge at 100mA. Below 1,0V, charge at 25mA.

remove that dangerous feature,
nobody really wants to make a potential thread for thermal runaway cell, recovering over discharged lithium batteries
such a cell has to go to the recycle bin

for NiMh it may be good, but definitely not on lithium

Joshk
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I agree with Lexel. I’ve read dendrite crystals can form inside a lithium battery that has been over-discharged and permanently short it out. Or short it out soon after.

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