Fireflies E07 preview

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contactcr
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SKV89 wrote:
I just swapped out the stock lens with UCL 35.00mm x 19.00mm lens and got the following measurements:

Can you measure the stock lens if it’s handy? How close of a fit is that?

SKV89
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Stock lens measures 35.00mm x 1.54mm

twisted raven
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You made my day SKV89! Ordered two for my Cu and Cu/Ti E07s.

Tally-ho
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Jack told me that he is adding 20 degree E07 TIR optics for free with my order so I guess that some people might be interested to know about it.
The current E07 optic is 45 degree.

I’m waiting for it so I don’t know if the more throwy beam will look good.

twisted raven
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I saw a more throwy optic on a site that I thought might fit the E07, but it was just a little too large. I wonder what kind of optic Jacky got.

I’d be interested in some for sure.

I received the UCL lenses for my E07s, and the are more clear than stock. The effect of the new lens is about the same as a LEE green minus 1/8th. The lenses are thicker though, so you will have a small gap between bezel and heatsink— it’s very small.

Also 45 degrees sounds very floody. I think current optic for ROT66 is 25 degree, and E07 is very similar.

Tally-ho
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twisted raven wrote:
Also 45 degrees sounds very floody. I think current optic for ROT66 is 25 degree, and E07 is very similar.

That is what Jack told me in PM :
Quote:
With your new order i will throw into the package several 20 degree E07 optics, which will have much better throw than the stock E07. You can have a try.

Original E07 utilizes 45 degree optics.


This optic (KingBrite) has the same 4 legs footprint than the E07’s one and have a wide range of beam angle : 10°/15°/25°/30°/45°/60°/70°
I’m not sure of the MOC.
I would have wished FireFlies to sell a few of them with the E07.
contactcr
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The E07 listing has always said 25 degree TIR but it will be interesting to see what you end up getting. Maybe something is lost in translation but either way more options are always nice

SKV89
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Tally-ho wrote:
twisted raven wrote:
Also 45 degrees sounds very floody. I think current optic for ROT66 is 25 degree, and E07 is very similar.

That is what Jack told me in PM :
Quote:
With your new order i will throw into the package several 20 degree E07 optics, which will have much better throw than the stock E07. You can have a try.

Original E07 utilizes 45 degree optics.


This optic (KingBrite) has the same 4 legs footprint than the E07’s one and have a wide range of beam angle : 10°/15°/25°/30°/45°/60°/70°
I’m not sure of the MOC.
I would have wished FireFlies to sell a few of them with the E07.

Wow 10degree would be awesome. Anywhere to buy just a couple to test?

SKV89
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I found out the mysterious reason why E07 drops in output overtime. The spring flattens out after being compressed and doesn’t return to the original length, which means it won’t push as hard on the cells. The weaker contact results in more resistance and lower output. I took some measurements with these fully charged cells. The 18650 cell uses a 21700 adapter, which makes them a good bit longer than the 21700 cells so the spring pushes harder on the 18650 cells.

Molicel P26A 18650: 6640 lumens
Molicel P28A 18650: 6300 lumens
Sony VTC5D 18650: 6300 lumens
Sony VTC6 18650: 5650 lumens
Molicel P42A 21700: 5600 lumens
Samsung 40T 21700: 5770 lumens
Samsung 30T 21700: 6500 lumens

This same E07 used to measure around 7,570 lumens with the same 30T and 7,017 lumens with the 40T. I swapped the tail cap with another E07 tail cap that is used less and the 40T measurements jumped from 5770 to 6000 lumens. There’s a possibility that I might have tried a 21700 protected cell which compressed the springs too hard causing permanent deformation, but I don’t remember. But now I know to never put protected cells in a flashlight not designed to accept protected cells.

These springs are not bad and all springs flatten out over time to a certain extent, but if Fireflies ever find any springs with better mechanical properties, they can sell them separately as an upgrade. There’s nothing we can do with the spring on the driver side but if Fireflies provide a longer tail cap spring, that will make up for the loss compression.

SKV89 wrote:
I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

Tom E
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It's something we should all look out for on these high powered lights. I suppose good bypasses would solve that issue. Yet another good reason to add bypasses..

BlueSwordM
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That’s the main reason I don’t like using BeCu C17500 45% IACS: while it does have better conductivity than BeCu C17530 38% IACS, its worse mechanical properties show up quite rapidly.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

SKV89
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I tried to test a NCR18650GA button top and it crushed the springs further.
Now w/ P26A, it measures 5,820 lumens
Now w/ Samsung 30T 21700, it measures 5,840 lumens

This is significant considering the 30T used to measure 7,570 lumens when the springs were brand new. Lesson learned, be very careful what batteries you put in and twist the threads in slowly to make sure you are not forcing in a battery that is too long.

SKV89 wrote:
I found out the mysterious reason why E07 drops in output overtime. The spring flattens out after being compressed and doesn’t return to the original length, which means it won’t push as hard on the cells. The weaker contact results in more resistance and lower output. I took some measurements with these fully charged cells. The 18650 cell uses a 21700 adapter, which makes them a good bit longer than the 21700 cells so the spring pushes harder on the 18650 cells.

Molicel P26A 18650: 6640 lumens
Molicel P28A 18650: 6300 lumens
Sony VTC5D 18650: 6300 lumens
Sony VTC6 18650: 5650 lumens
Molicel P42A 21700: 5600 lumens
Samsung 40T 21700: 5770 lumens
Samsung 30T 21700: 6500 lumens

This same E07 used to measure around 7,570 lumens with the same 30T and 7,017 lumens with the 40T. I swapped the tail cap with another E07 tail cap that is used less and the 40T measurements jumped from 5770 to 6000 lumens. There’s a possibility that I might have tried a 21700 protected cell which compressed the springs too hard causing permanent deformation, but I don’t remember. But now I know to never put protected cells in a flashlight not designed to accept protected cells.

These springs are not bad and all springs flatten out over time to a certain extent, but if Fireflies ever find any springs with better mechanical properties, they can sell them separately as an upgrade. There’s nothing we can do with the spring on the driver side but if Fireflies provide a longer tail cap spring, that will make up for the loss compression.

SKV89 wrote:
I’m surprised that my E07 dropped in output significantly over time. For example, my XP-L HI version that measured 7,327 lumens with a 30T now measures 5,950 lumens with a 30T, 5,820 lumens with a 40T. I don’t even use this E07 besides blasting it on turbo every now and then for output measurements and tint comparisons so I’m sure it never overheated. My other E07 also lost some output but not as much as this specific one. I leave the cells in these flashlights for the aux light for half a year though. Does the driver degrade over time? Maybe Lexel might be able to answer this since he designed the driver.

Anyone else noticed their E07 output decreases over time?

SKV89 wrote:
Edited below to add measurements with Lishen LR2170SF and Samsung 50E. I believe the LR2170SF is the best cell for the 219B version eventhough it outputs the same as the 50E at full charge, but as the battery depletes, the LR2170SF will be able to output higher than the 50E.

SKV89 wrote:
Here are a few more measurements of three more E07 using Samsung 30T.

E07 SST-20 4000k, emitters swapped by Texas_Ace (different batch of SST-20): Samsung 30T 4,845 lumens
E07 SST-20 4000k: Samsung 30T 4,888 lumens; Lishen LR2170SF 4,319; Samsung 50E 4,095
E07 XP-L HI 4000k v2 5A, heavily used: Samsung 30T 6,465 lumens;

SKV89 wrote:
I took more measurements and here are the lumen results for 4 different E07:

E07 XP-L HI 6500kQSO VTC6A 6,681; 30T 6,983
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,551; Vapcell VTC6A 6,379; 30T 6,733; Vapcell 40T 6,810
E07 XP-L HI 5000kQSO VTC6A 6,586; Vapcell VTC6A 6,630; 30T 7,327; Vapcell 40T 7,017; QSO 40T 6,983; LG M50 5,353; Lishen LR2170SF 5,866; Samsung 50E 5,268
E07 219B sw45k 9080 – Vapcell VTC6A 3,707; 30T 4,301 (quickly dropping); Vapcell 40T 3,741; NCR21700A button top 2,828; LG M50 3,233; Lishen LR2170SF 3,450, Samsung 50E 3,449

For some reason, I cannot reproduce the 7,570 lumen measurement again. The unit I measured 7,570 now only makes 7,357 lumens. Not sure if the emitters already degraded from me constantly blasting turbo or is it due to some other reason. I’m surprised the XP-L HI v3 6500k unit is not as bright as one of the XP-L HI v2 5000k unit.

I think the 40T is the ideal battery for the XP-L HI version. For the 219B version, I would think the NCR21700A recessed top with 15A would be the best battery but I don’t have a charger that can charge the recessed top and the soldered button top version adds an incredible amount of resistance. Otherwise the LG M50 is not bad for the 219B. The 40T might be pushing it too hard in the long run.

Also I really like the look of this light. The knurling and the very deep and functional heat fins look great. Most of the weight is in the head of the light where it is needed most for heat sinking. Jack said he designed the final prototype with super thick 8mm shelf. I couldn’t measure it but with the optics removed, it seems the shelf is probably not that thick but without removing the mcpcb and driver I can’t say for sure. But it did look like Fireflies listened to our request to increase surface area and mass in the head for better heat sinking and dissipation.

Machining quality is not as good as the Emisar series but not too bad. The clear anodizing version is OMG beautiful and a must have for anyone’s collection. Now I’m patiently waiting for a copper version.

One suggested improvement is to find or make an optic with larger TIR cups for more focused beam. There’s too much wasted space between the cups. Otherwise, I think the size of this optic can fit 10 cups and emitters for an even more amazing flooder good for 10k real OTF lumens.

Overall, this is the best pocketable EDC I’ve seen to date. It is also BY FAR the brightest single cell production flashlight in the world. It is twice as bright as the previous record holder, which is the Emisar D4S.

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I would highly recommend to anyone with soldering skills to swap out the thermal paste in the Fireflies E07. I had 6500K SST20 inside and swapped them for Luxeon V2 4000K. I removed all the old thermal paste and replaced it with 10W/mk new paste. You have to unsolder all the wires because they are too short to be pulled out.

Before, the E07 got hot only slowly even if it was running on full turbo. It was barely warm at the outside and the heat would not transfer to the head as known from other hot-rods like the Emisar D4.

Now you can feel the heat at the outside already after a few seconds and it moves along the light until it is hot all along. That’s much better because if the heat is stored in the MCPCB the leds are more likely to fail. This leads me to the conclusion that Fireflies is using a much worse thermal paste than for example Emisar or Astrolux.

My Youtube channel: Alllightson Reviews

My 7th Old lumens contest build: Matainvoy ML18SBuilt video

My reviews: Sofirn SP31 V2.0Nightwatch NI40 StalkerSofirn C8F 21700Brinyte WT01 ApolloSofirn SD05

My Youtube video-reviews: Brinyte WT01 Apollo, Sofirn SD05

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@Skylight Really? That’s the complete opposite for me, but I do have the V2 in which it has HY880 thermal paste.

The E07 gets hot insanely fast, even faster than my PL47, taking into account of course that the PL47 has a direct connection to the battery tube, so it doesn’t get as hot as fast, but the battery tube does get hot faster.

@SKV89, I would also agree. I advise anyone using any of Fireflies lights to not use protected/very long cells.

Like with Emisar/Amutorch lights, they use BeCu C17500 springs, so while they have some superb conductivity, their mechanical properties and resistance to plastic deformation(permanent) are bad.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

contactcr
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I’m hesitant to say this because i dont want to start a thermal pastegate again but even on my Ti+Cu model only ~half of the MCPCB makes good contact with the shelf (FWIW my Emisar D18 was more or less the same). I added good thermal paste and it seems to transfer heat ok but obviously it could still be better.

shirnask
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My two early edition E07’s had virtually NO thermal paste

So if you have the skills – check

SKV89
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BlueSwordM wrote:

@SKV89, I would also agree. I advise anyone using any of Fireflies lights to not use protected/very long cells.

Like with Emisar/Amutorch lights, they use BeCu C17500 springs, so while they have some superb conductivity, their mechanical properties and resistance to plastic deformation(permanent) are bad.

I wasn’t used protected cell, just standard length button top NCR18650GA with their 18650 adapter tube. Seems like it is only compatible with flat top 18650. I hope FF will increase the length of the tube slightly to avoid these issues and use the same springs you are using. That would result in the ultimate premium flashlight that should not degrade in performance over time.

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On the Fireflies website it states this.

 

 

  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 CW 6500K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness
  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 3A NW 5000K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness  

But isnt 5000K not as bright as 6500K?

 

contactcr
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If they are both V3 it wont be a huge difference. I think they have had v2, v3 and v4 in certain temps

SKV89
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fluke wrote:

On the Fireflies website it states this.


 


 



  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 CW 6500K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness

  • 7x CREE XPL HI V3 3A NW 5000K  6900 lumens Turbo brightness  


But isnt 5000K not as bright as 6500K?


 

It’s all about the flux bin. I’ve measured warmer temps brighter than cooler temps. If both of the lights are the same flux bin (V3), then their brightness should be the same. Though some lux meters seem to be more sensitive to cooler temps so they measure higher output with CW than WW even if the brightness should be the same.

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Anyone familiar with replacing the button? My leds went out and I have a replacement but looks like the ring is press fit.

Mine is copper so I’m a little timid on being brute force on this, dont want to ruin the finish

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I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

contactcr
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AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

AndreaW
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contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

No, I don’t know enough to muck around with the internals.

contactcr
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AndreaW wrote:
contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

No, I don’t know enough to muck around with the internals.

Make sure your battery is charged? It could have drained it enough to allow the button/main LEDs to come on dimly but the aux board has its own low voltage protection so it will stay off.

AndreaW
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contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
contactcr wrote:
AndreaW wrote:
I’m having trouble getting my aux lights to come on. I click 7 times from off and the switch lights change from 2 dots to 4 dots but my blue aux lights don’t come on. I click 7 times again and the switch changes from 4 dots to 2 dots. What am I doing wrong? How do I get my aux lights to come on? They used to work but I turned them off and haven’t used the light in quite in a while. Now I want to turn them back on.

Did you maybe open the bezel and turn them down with the pot screws when you did it the first time?

No, I don’t know enough to muck around with the internals.

Make sure your battery is charged? It could have drained it enough to allow the button/main LEDs to come on dimly but the aux board has its own low voltage protection so it will stay off.

Good idea, I’ll charge up the battery tonight. The light itself does come on and ramps up and down brightnesses as expected so I didn’t think about the battery since the light worked.

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Is the light off or on or locked?
Locked is three clicks.
On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

contactcr
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scosgt wrote:
Is the light off or on or locked? Locked is three clicks. On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

He is doing that right because the button LEDs are changing. I’m betting it’s just a low battery

scosgt
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contactcr wrote:
scosgt wrote:
Is the light off or on or locked? Locked is three clicks. On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

He is doing that right because the button LEDs are changing. I’m betting it’s just a low battery

Or maybe there is a defect

AndreaW
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scosgt wrote:
Is the light off or on or locked? Locked is three clicks. On is 7 clicks, but they need to be fast clicks.

I tried both ways – 7 clicks from off and also tried 3 clicks from lockout.

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