New pistol light project

LED Flashlights – General Info
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18350 support would be welcome. I don’t think anybody’s doing that yet.

Standby power consumption needs to be very low.

A neutral white option would be nice. I’m not sure anybody’s doing that. High CRI would be even nicer. Somebody is certain to argue this isn’t important for a pistol light, but I think it improves your ability to tell what you’re looking at, which is important when making a decision about whether to shoot it.

Size matters. Many pistol lights stick out past the muzzle of most pistols; shorter is better.

Huge output numbers aren’t as useful for the application as stable output, reasonable heat production, and reliability.

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CR123/16340 is almost a must for a pistol light. CR123’s will play at any temp, LiIon’s, not so much. Mechanical switch, paddle switch, button, whatever. Mechanical, no parasitic drain. This isn’t a lets go play outside type of light. One mode, ON. 200 to 500 lumens maybe. No blinkys, ridiculous and not necessary. As long as the emitter is white and not angry blue, it will work fine. If you need color rendition that is only rival’d by the sun itself, then you are using it all wrong. Pot it, pot it, pot it. After it’s potted, make sure the attachment hardware is bullet proof. If you fire your weapon and it goes flying off into the grass, then it’s only useful once.

Test it, test the hell out of it. Beat it to the brink of death. I don’t know gun laws in China, I won’t even try and guess. If it’s feasible to test random samples with a few thousand rounds, do it. Make it 5000 rounds if it still works after that.

Too many types of pistols to start making ones custom fitted for each weapon. Not to mention there are already a few companies doing that, expensively but, it’s being done. Something to use on full framed pistols with rails would fit many many many different side arms.

Finally, make it easy for customers to get quality customer service. Something lacking in a lot of companies now days. If I have to pay $35 USD to ship it back for repair or for a new one to be sent, I won’t waste my time and just buy elsewhere.

4

Todd makes some good points. A pistol light is not the place to show off fancy modes or excessive lumens. It needs to work, it needs to work consistently, and it needs to be simple.

The switch needs to be big enough to work with gloves, and not need a lot of dexterity or pressure to operate. Unless you have a really, really good reason, stick with the standard momentary if you push one way, and constant lock the other.

IMHO, a very nice, well defined center spot and somewhat dimmer flood is a good answer. A nice, medium level flood is good for situational awareness, and a small hot center can be a good ‘rough guess’ about point of impact.

Regarding brightness, this is not a searchlight. It is primarily a ‘social distance’ light. Being too bright, reflections can interfere with your ability to see things that are not directly in front of the light. I’m somewhat OK with a manually engaged HI mode. The primary on/off is for up close and personal. If what you’re shooting at is further away, you can take a second to bring up the brightness. I’d see this more as a long-gun mode, but it may have application for duty pistols. .

I just realized that I’ve been thinking exclusively in the context of a handgun. If you want something to live on a rifle or carbine, you want to lean more towards throw. You’d definitely want a near/floody mode and a far/spot mode. How to do this - I don’t know.

Power - CR123 is still the king of weaponlights. All weather and readily available. I’ve got a small pistol light with an integrated battery that charges with a magnetic connector. I’m mostly OK with it for a home or civvy carry gun. If it was on a duty gun I’d have issues with the limited run time and not being able to swap batteries in the field.

If you really want a differentiator, offer it in mixed colors. White/IR, or White/Red. How to change modes in a way that is simple, small enough for a pistol light, and really, really hard to screw up is the challenge. If you sell into the high speed / low drag market, someone accidentally engaging White instead of IR will earn you enemies. If you want to do this on a rifle light, check out the Vampire line from Surefire.

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Strap the dang thing to a jackhammer. Beat the ever-lovin snot out of it. You can stop short of driving in nails with it, but maybe put them through a clothes washer and toss them in a dryer after. It’s either gong to be reliable, or a toy.

On this topic, over-build it. Don’t use thin plastic hinges, tabs or clips. If you need something sealed with an o ring, use two. Reliability is the first checkbox with this kind of product.

Customer Service…. Oh Yeah. I imagine your primary demographic will be someone who’s going into harm’s way. Needing to own a spare so they have something to use while waiting for the slow-boat, or spending annoying amounts of money for expedited shipping is not a great answer. Have small replacement parts available. Have a good warranty and a good out of warranty policy to people who do manage to break theirs will feel like you want to help them, not just sell another.

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Thanks for all the comments, I will record these comments and give feedback to our R&D department.

I will also post news about this project if any update.

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There really is no reason not to have hi CRI.

Is there?

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25 year LEO veteran so I have some ideas from experience.

  1. A single CR123A battery, lots of large doubles already out there.
  2. Mechanical switch only no parasitic drain. Batteries must be able to work after a couple of years in the light without fail.
  3. Tough as nails and potted to handle recoil over and over. Revolvers have sharper recoil impulse over semi-auto’s, must handle both.
  4. 300-500 lumens, needs good spill for peripheral viewing of area.
  5. Very waterproof, good hinge and sealed.
  6. Quick attach, tight if a coin screw is used or very low profile if a throw lever.
  7. 5000k light color, higher gets more glare, less gives lower output.
  8. Gold plated contact areas. Anodized housing inside and out.
  9. Removable inserts for UNIV-1, UNIV-2, 1913-1, 1913-2, 1913-3 compatibility.
  10. Short as possible for use on compact pistols such as Glock-19’s

Battery inserted from a removable light head if o-ringed and still very waterproof possible. CR123A is still the battery of choice as they are extremely reliable. Rechargeable less than 100% reliable batteries turn items from tools to toys and should be avoided.

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Sounds a CR123A battery is must. ok. How about compatible with CR123A and 16340, also 16340 can be magnetic rechargeable. Battery replace by unscrew head?

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Excellent idea. Hadn’t thought of that. Red would surely help keeping your dark adjusted eyes well, dark adjusted. :slight_smile:

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Head unscrews to change battery in this example.

16340 usable probably a good idea by itself. The beauty of the CR123A is that it’s a 1500-1600 mah small battery with a 20 year shelf life that doesn’t mind being stored in extreme weather. Olight built a few good weapon lights and I own a few but rechargeable adds extra complexity. A very small and simple system that always works is wanted in this field. Imagine your police or military sitting down next to an outlet recharging their equipment instead of completing the mission at hand. Like kids at a mall recharging their phones. 650 mah rechargeable vs 1600 mah quick replace. Actually this should not be an issue needing a magnetic rechargeable system. A single CR123A should give well over an hour of run time. This is a weapon light not a flashlight, no body should be using their pistol as a flashlight for extended times. Dark area with a threat that warrants a weapon to be draw only a few minutes.

Streamlight and Surefire built the best switch systems. Two styles both excellent.

The 24mm finned head of your DS series lights with a solid TIR lens would be a good start.

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One aspect I forgot to mention - purely from a practicality and marketability aspect… Build it to the same form factor - maybe a touch smaller in one way or another, but not larger - as an established player in the market.

If your light will fit into a holster that is already in production to support another already popular pistol light, that’s one major usability hurdle out of your way. It saves money for buyers, provides a pre-made fit-compatible related accessory market, and frees you from convincing holster makers to add yet another SKU to their catalog.

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My question is, could a TIR optic be used to make the light a bit more compact? When it comes to pistol lights specifically, I feel like throw is not that big of a concern compared to a light that would go on a rifle. I personally really like TIR beams but I know some people want throwier lights than that. I know for my purposes, self-defense within the home, the extra throw gained by a real reflector would just go to waste as long as I can push a couple hundred lumens OTF, which any modern emitter can do with its eyes closed with a CR123 backing it up. Throw an SST or a 219C in there for good CRI.

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Only thing I want to add to make sure it’s not forgotten, leave the disco function off. Frankly I’m fine with on 100% and off as the only function.

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You can include 16340 support, but don’t waste any space on building in a charger.

If you really want to stand out, include red or green laser options. If you can price those models at 100-150 (still potted and stuff), you’ll compete quite well with the $300 Streamlight TLR series :wink: :+1:

Already mentioned: Potted. CR123 support. Quick unscrew to swap batteries. Mechanical switch, with no modes. It should also be just as waterproof as the pistol. The beam pattern isn’t super important - we know size is limited, so don’t worry about it too much. A TIR is probably pretty good here, if you can get something like the Olight S1 batons do. Otherwise, some sort of shallow orange-peel reflector should be fine. And something neutral (4000K to 5000K) with a bit of high CRI is nice, like a Nichia 219C CRI90 or SST-20 CRI95. That will also stand out from the 7000K 70CRI offerings available.

If you actually hit most of these points, I’ve got a friend who keeps eyeing the TLR-2G that would snatch one of these up, and he’s the kind of guy who basically sells his friends on all the products he likes.

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If possible, I’d like one to be short enough to fit underneath a g19. I hate it when lights stick out further than the frame and even past the edge of the barrel. Also I feel like a TIR lens would work well as I would use this for in-home defense where I would value flood over throw. Just my thoughts.

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I’m against onboard charging for weapon lights, especially pistol lights. Size matters more, and any additional complexity is another thing that could fail. I also don’t want to leave my pistol connected to a charger and possibly unattended. Swapping the battery and putting the used one on a slot charger is almost always going to be a better solution.

I’ve seen a number of people claim rechargeable batteries are less reliable than primaries, but other than shelf life, I have not seen any basis for believing that. Furthermore, it’s not meaningful to compare capacity in mAh at different voltages. A comparison of mWh is a more meaningful representation of their capacity, and 2665 mWh isn’t that much less than 3239 (1A load used, which again is more power from the higher voltage Li-ion).

I’m going to reiterate my suggestion for 18350 support here. It trounces the other small cells with 4158 mWh - that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t support CR123A. Ideally, the light would support CR123A, 16340, and 18350. The light should be regulated such that they all produce the same power and heat.

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Also, I would prefer either CR2 or built-in rechargeable, because I have a personal goal of never adopting more battery types than I currently have (which are: AA, AAA, CR1616, CR2025, LR44, CR2, and 18650). I have a CR2 light already but no CR123s so I don’t want a light that takes CR123s. IIRC, Streamlight makes a weaponlight that takes CR2s.

I’m definitely the only person on this board with this requirement though so feel free to ignore me, but I feel like onboard recharging isn’t the end of the world a lot of people make it out to be, especially if the quiescent current is very low or nonexistent. Quick-charging options could also be explored, as the technology certainly exists, and that would help address the complaints over recharging time. When I look at a flashlight, I look at it as how I would use it. For a weaponlight, it would be on a firearm for self-defense within the home, and in a realistic home defense situation I wouldn’t use it continuously long enough for the battery not being easily swappable to be a problem, unless we’re talking about an absolutely tiny battery here, which we aren’t. I’m good enough about making sure my rechargeables are always topped up and never low enough to be a problem so I would personally much prefer a rechargeable light.

I agree with the suggestions for potting and single mode only - it’s a tactical light for a very specific purpose, it’s there for when you need light and you need it right away. Strobe is definitely off the table. The light needs to be pretty durable, let’s say I drop the gun on concrete from 5 or 6 feet up and it lands right on the light, I want it to survive that, and I’d like to be able to drop it in a puddle, pull it out, and it’s still working - although the latter exists for every light that costs more than $3 these days, let’s be honest.

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So a probable plan,

1. Model PT-1, CR2 battery （Pending）

3. Model PT-3, CR123A battery with IR or red, laser maybe.（Pending）

2. Model PT-2, CR123A, 16340 battery.(If size allowed then 18350)

The model PT-2,

Below all “？”are pending to discussion.

- Power: 1 x CR123A or 16340 battery.(If size allowed then 18350)

- No-rechargeable.

- Aluminum with anodized.

-Potted for more reliable.

- Smaller as possible. Fit for more holster.

- Waterproof IPX8

- LED: 5000K, SST-20, CRI95 FA2/FA3 bin

- Shallow OP reflector. (I think TIR Lens will be aging for long time use.)

- Output:
500 Lumen (CR123A),
800 Lumen 5mins? then down to 500 Lumen(16340),
1000 Lumen 5mins? then down to 500 Lumen(18350).

- Big mechanical switch. Push or Press? Which is better? Can the switch have “click” noise?

- No Strobe? No momentary-on? Only on and off?

- Replace battery from head.

- Quick attach, quick mount like Olight?(Size larger) or like Streamlight need coin?(Size smaller)

- Rail:
Keys for 1913 and Glock compatibility, and any other?
What length for mount can fit for more pistol rail?
How about the slide the rail adapter?

Wait for more ideas and discussion.

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Looks good so far. On output 500 lumens is plenty. Many pistol frames are plastic these days. Your lights will only have air flow to bleed heat off. Mechanical switch that “clicks” should not be an issue. As it clicks with a bright light coming on. Momentary with light press, on with full press. Quick attach up to your engineers. Only two keys needed to fit most everything. Rail length for this one should be for full size pistols. Your Model PT-1, CR2 battery for smaller pistols.

This sentence ” How about the slide the rail adapter?” needs better clarity. Are you asking about mounting on the slide of the pistol or making a slide on rail adapter?

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I have a variety of firearms and I’m willing to test prototypes if you’re looking for someone.