Choosing a first LiIon charger

Good point about efficiency, though with the amount of energy consumed for a single cell flashlight, it doesn’t seem too significant.

I remember reading one or two reviews of flashlights with built-in chargers (don’t remember which anymore) and they seemed decent in that they properly charged with CC-CV and proper termination, albeit a bit early. So there would be something to be gained from a good standalone charger, but again, how significant is the difference? Another good point about more things to go wrong, though I wonder how often that happens.

For disclosure, I don’t have any lithium ion battery flashlights yet. My inclination right now is to start with one with a built-in charger, and keep watching new developments and reviews of chargers to get if I don’t find it sufficient.

The Miboxer C4 upgraded variants with 70mm height support and the BLF charger in development look interesting.

I really like my Zanflare C4. It’s really easy to use and has a lot of features. Charges all cylindrical li-ion (except LiFeP04) nicad and nickle metal hydride up to 26650 and 27100. Each slot is independently controlled and you can see the real time info for each battery while some chargers you need to press a button to choose slots. Charges at 300 miliamps, 500, 700 and 1A on all slots too and it does all the fancy analyzing. You cab get it for around $25.

Thanks for the mention, Sirstinky ! The Zanflare C4 seems well reviewed, including by HKJ, and the reports of IR being reliable make it appealing. Is it related to the identically priced Miboxer C4? Unbelievably confusing…

Edit: The inconsistencies in reported capacity give some pause: Test/review of Zanflare C4 I wonder if there are updated models now since it dates from 2017.

I think it’s comparable to the miboxer, except it doesn’t have automatic charging. The default charging current when you put in a battery is 500mah, which might be too high for AAA nickel metal hydride, or 10440 li-ion but is easy to change with a single button press. My capacity tests are accurate enough, within 50mah and that’s using old cells and brand new. The internal resistance measurement is very consistent and believable. I tested Sony VTC6 at between 24 and 18 mililliohms which is within spec. I tested Sanyo 18560GA at 45 to 55, a little high but still within spec, and old cells that I knew had really high internal resistance in the 100’s up to 1000 for some worn out AAA nickle metal hydride.

The 12 in the C4-12 is 12A spread across 4 slots. Capable of 3A each slot

Definitely the SkyRC MC3000 if you want more analysis on the batteries you’re doing testing of.

Since capacity test and IR test is a requirement, then I’ll suggest these:

- Opus BT-C3100 (try not to do discharge testing at 1A since the unit will heat up and pause, which results in incorrect too high capacity readouts; consistent IR reading)

  • ZanFlare C4 (not sure if this model is still available, the IR reading looks consistent, capacity test can read a bit higher — but if you’re comparing with this same charger it’s OK)

For general purpose charging of many batteries, I like the Miboxer C8 with its 8-slots. It won’t charge too fast (like the C4-12/C4-12v2) but has IR reading and charged capacity readout; but no “analyzing/capacity-testing” function.

Thanks for explaining the differences. It’s gradually making more sense. If the main difference between the C4 and C4-12 is the charging current, I’ll probably be fine with the former as I usually plan ahead and am not in a hurry.

How do the Miboxer C4[–12] and ZanFlare C4 compare?

Miboxer (the C4): automatic charging (based on battery type, internal resistance), higher available charge current (1.5a vs 1a for all 4 slots), LiFep04 support, supports li-ion 4.3 and 4.35v. The C4-12 adds 3A across all 4 slots, but is otherwise the save as the C4.

Zanflare: analyzing function for measuring battery capacity and health (charges, discharges, recharges and measures capacity) real time battery info in all 4 slots (no need to cycle through them), really easy to use

You said you didn’t need fast charging. It’s up to you, but if those extra features on the miboxer don’t matter then get the Zanflare.

I have a noob question…please pardon my ignorance….does using a fast charger run any increased danger for batteries overheating?

I think most chargers, especially ones that charge with higher current, would have a resistance test (or temperature sensor, which is more rare) and shouldn’t charge high-resistance (old) batteries at too fast rate. Maybe the issue though is charging good batteries with small capacities (eg. AAA or 10440) at too high current, then they may heat up, but should reach the end-voltage (full-charge) faster — this may be bad for battery life cycle, but I think they won’t “overheat” enough to cause explosions or such to occur. (I might be wrong…)

However, old defective batteries (eg. Sanyo red 2200mAh 18650s from laptop-pulls) have been known to overheat dangerously (as in too hot to touch) when trying to charge them to full. It’s probably more dangerous to charge unknown-condition batteries without monitoring them…

for instance see here:
https://secondlifestorage.com/showthread.php?tid=303

I have also personally experienced the same scenario as the one posted in that thread.

Thanks, Sirstinky, that’s a nice summary.

d_t_a What do people mean by “monitoring” charging? Being in the same building? Having it in the same room and sometimes peeking at readings? Occasionally touching the batteries?

Didn’t the Miboxer advertize “intelligent” charging by varying the current according to periodic internal resistance measurements?

I don’t think anyone is sitting in the same room staring at batteries charging. I charge mine in a basement (very little flammable nearby), on a steel shelf with tiles under the charger and battery, a smoke alarm a few feet away and 2 fire extinguishers within arms reach. I often have a small cooling fan running if I’m charging a bunch or running charge/discharge cycles. I never leave the house or go to bed with Lithium charging. I have no problem leaving NiMh charge unattended. I don’t push charging, batteries seldom get more than warm, but I don’t use really slow rates either.

Batteries are watched carefully through the first charge/discharge cycle to see how they act, laptop pulls, old cells, or unknown cells especially. I will check the charger reading periodically, and test the temps by hand. If they don’t ‘behave’, they get discharged and recycled.

The lithium ion world of batteries is so different. I don’t really have fireproof areas, at least not within earshot or line of sight. With NiMh batteries my habit is to have them charge overnight which is why I don’t worry about charge rates. If one is to “watch the pot boil”, the rate becomes more significant.

Do people take the same precautions with USB charging flashlights?

Ugh…yeah, I found out about the Sanyo red laptop pulls. They got pretty toasty so I abandoned that real quick.

I have quickly collected a few lights and so my charging area is getting pretty busy. I have been thinking about wire rack shelves with laptop cooling fans mounted under to keep airflow…but was not sure if that is a moot dumb idea.

Think of the monitoring like set-and-forget, meaning you stick the battery in, regardless of what type, or age, and the charger picks the best current setting and charge profile. Charge profiles are very different for li-ion and nickle metal hydride/nicads. I don’t care for those full automatic chargers since they sometimes might not get the charge profile just right, especially if their internal resistance measurement is not accurate. A old, high resistance cell might be overcharged or charged too quickly (termination is too late and it gets too hot or under charged. If you pay attention to HJKs reviews of those chargers, you find that they don’t always get it 100% right, meaning a human with experience will be better than a programmed machine.

You don’t want to charge a AAA cell at the same current as a AA or C size. The miboxer C4+, c4-12, C2-4000, C2-6000, SkyRC MC3000, and I believe the Opus all monitor cell temperatures. I think that is mandatory for fast charging. If li-ions get over 60 or 80 C, they are either damaged permanently or suffer damage and lose capacity. Old cells are especially vulnerable to this. If you get the automatic chargers, make sure you watch what the charger sets itself at, and if you feel it’s off, change it manually. That’s why I like my Zanflare. It’s default setting is conservative enough for just about all batteries except old AAA’s.

I used miboxer c4-12. I used it so that I can control the amount of charge current. For my 21700 battery esp 4500mah vapcell, I’ll will used 800ma or 1000ma charge. Why? 1. Cell temperature stay low, low temperature is goood for cell life expetancy. It has temperature control though. 2. To maximizing cell capcity, I cant recall where. But there a different between high charge current and low charge current over the cell capacity. High chrging=capacity not fully. Lowcharging=capacity near or close full.

3.20 to 4.20v.

Sirstinky hasddie293 Yes, I would consider conservative default settings desirable.

And what? There’s a C4+ ? :laughing: :person_facepalming:

Yes. The C4+ is the latest version of the original C4. It’s been our for a couple years now. It’s basically the C4-12, but doesn’t charge at 3A on all 4 slots where the C4+ does 1.5A. It also supports li-ion high voltage cells which charge to 4.3 or 4.35v not 4.2. These are rarely encountered, but usually in laptop pulls.

I recently received the Gyrfalcon all-44 ordered from Mountain Electronics. I really like it! I can now charge my Eneloops independently rather than in pairs. It’s easy to set the charging rate. No switches to set for battery types.

Miboxer could benefit from making a comparison chart with all the C4 variants and versions…

a1penguin Thanks for mentioning the Gyrfalcon All-44. It got a good review from HKJ.