[BLF Joint-Development] WildTrail BLF Tactical Flashlight

Thanks a lot for investigating how the F1 is constructed, Djozz!

I extended the head part a bit to reflect the additional space for the cavity the battery tube's thread section needs to fill before its front face touches the driver's rim, see brown highlighted part below.

I am very interested.
Don’t need the charging port.

I assume it adds costs and complexity to the design

I assume no one is completely happy at the end

Micro USB or USB C
1,2,3,… Ampere
USB, USB QC, USB PD,…
Really fully sealed,…

Maybe it’s easier to point (alongside the battery recommendations) to some cost effective decent single battery charger for people without charger.
I assume that people having chargers, but none that supports 21700, will sooner or later end up buying one anyway. And then with all the nice choices on the market.

tbh I’d be just as happy to lose the USB, lose the side switch, shrink it down to zebralight, perhaps S2+ size and call it a day, it’s rapidly becoming less tactical and more ‘tacticool’

Interested

sorry, forgot to place a vote for a tactial ring in rubber (like Armytek, Eagtac, Solarforce L2T…)

How do you intend to make the side switch work when the tail switch breaks the circuit at the battery? A tube-in-tube setup will likely fail quickly if gun-mounted.

It’s worth keeping in mind that the gold standard for tactical flashlights are lights like the Surefire 6p and Elzetta. Those are downright primitive. While it’s absolutely possible to increase complexity of a tactical light, there won’t be a trivial amount of engineering required. Whereas a 1-5% failure rate in most flashlights would annoy people, failures in a tactical light cause its immediate disqualification as a tactical light.

Edit: Also on-board charging won’t work with the tail switch off unless I’m missing something.

Dunno. M2R is tube-in-tube and people put it on their guns and it seems to work just fine(?) - it’s even sold as a weapon kit.

I can only describe what I like in a “tactical” light. Though tactical seems to mean different things for different people.

  • UI-wise: I am a civilian. I myself like a light that when I press the rear switch, it’s full power (or at least high). Always. No matter what the sideswitch says or how often I press/release or click the tail switch. If I press the rear switch I get lots of light instantly. It doesn’t even have to stay on, just momentary on the rear switch is fine for me. It’s useful to quickly check some dark spots on my way home. It’s also useful to blind people and get away. I like an additonal independent side switch for regular use that can do different modes and the regular stuff. The light should have moon mode and modes should be switchable very easily.
    This setup can be found in the Olight M2R or Acebeam T36 to name two. I also don’t care for any other gimmicks like strobe or blinkies etc. found in e.g. Anduril. If they are not hidden, they get annoying. If they are hidden, you won’t find them without a manual anyway.
  • Sizewise… somewhere between 8 and 11cm would be nice. Still easily usable with rear clicky but not too bulky and easily drawable from say a jacket pocket without catching.
  • Beamwise I like somewhat throwy lights that also have reasonable spill.
  • Featurewise I don’t need USB recharging. It adds a point of failure and it usually makes lights longer than they need to be anyway. I don’t want an aggressive bezel. It serves no purpose. It catches on everything. It makes you having to argue on whether or not your light is a weapon. And it’s not an effective weapon. If you can’t fight, you won’t hit anything with it anyway. And if you can you are better of using the light to distract your opponent. I know of at least two MMA channels on Youtube featuring professional fighters who tested a flashlight as a self defense tool and who pretty much came to that same conclusion.

I wish this project the best of luck even if it’s not what I am looking for in a light.

I’m in the same boat as Kanton (civilian use), and agree with everything he said about “his” type of tactical light. And I would add that I only want momentary for the rear switch as opposed to being able to “lock” the light on. …maybe a pressure switch for it with the ability to tighten it down for “locked on” (like the Foursevens Maelstrom X10 and Surefire 6P/G2/LX2); but I also presume the side switch would have the ability to reach “high” mode as well, so the rear only needs to be momentary.
Anyways, I also wish the project well, and wish you all good luck in designing and building it. :+1:

I like the direction this is going. I don’t think it needs to be a plain tube with one button and one mode. That already exists and doesn’t need a BLF version.

A good “tactical” light can have a tail and side switch. The M2R Pro tail button can be half or full pressed for mid or turbo modes, and can latch on or be momentary depending on whether you tap or hold it. The side switch accesses all the other modes. It’s a very good UI. Simple and requires no thinking when you need a lot of light very fast. Just mash the tail button.

I’m perfectly ok with this light being “tacticool” and not a “true tactical” light. I think it will be much more useful to most users than a single mode light.

Im not doubting you in any way but can you link us to those videos? I’d love to watch them personally.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've now come to a point where there are two groups:

Group 1: The "tacticool" group

These people like a dual-switch design (some with USB-port, most without USB-port). The UI should be simple but still sophisticated enough to fulfill most people's prerequisites. This light should become as compact as possible (which it is not at this point of time to be honest). Due to its design this flashlight will probably not be as robust and shockproof as the one group 2 actually favors. This might be the flashlight we should focus on inside this thread.

Group 2: The "tactical" group

These people ask for an even tougher flashlight, made as robust as possible, without any gimmicks and with a most simplified UI (2-3 modes, always start on high). This concept will probably not need a dual switch design nor would it come with internal charging. Instead the focus here should be on potted drivers, rock-solid and shockproof assembly and well-chosen raw materials (tough-grade aluminum with HA-III coating). Maybe it's worth creating a separate thread for this concept where policemen, firemen and soldiers and anyone else who's enthusiastic about it can post their suggestions.

However, nothing is for certain yet and I will get back to Jacky (WildTrail) to discuss which concept he wants to follow up with.

You pretty much nailed it. The only issue is that the title of this post is likely to bring out more people from group 2 than group 1. I’d be interested in a group 2 light pending a review that includes abuse tests.

I carry two lights on my duty belt. It’s as you have listed here.

Group 1: The “tacticool” group. It’s a Mateminco TK01 XHP50.2 21700. I wish it didn’t have a charging port and I potted it closed. Simple UI, very long run times with a 5000 mah battery. This light gets used for everything. Search a warehouse, pop a cone on and do traffic control all night, to reading in the car, tail stand to light a room. It’s robust enough to break a car windows. It could be pressed into the “tactical” group.
Group 2: The “tactical” group. It’s a Solarforce with a potted Pflexpro dropin. 2 modes high/low. Also with a forward clicky switch for simple tail tapping. It would also be used if pistol lights didn’t exist or work. It could do the “tacticool” but not very well as it lack flexibility.

Both have spend two days at the bottom of my pool without any leaking. Both have flown across parking lots and been dropped too many times. I’m really getting hopeful that two distinct hard use lights could be developed here.

I want USB-C with simple 2 button UI. If one button UI, it’s no different than the EC01

Oh I remember this ‘tactical and tacticool’ debate several years ago that it resulted in a ban, IIRC, to a member here in BLF! :slight_smile: :beer:

I talked to Jacky this morning. It seems it will be best to run a poll to find out which design will be most wanted. Maybe we should vote between following versions:

Model A - The fullsize tacticool flashlight (most features, purged Andúril firmware or alternative firmware and updated 21700 battery format, like Klarus XT21X)

► 21700 size, USB-C port, simple but configurable UI (stepped modes + ramping)

Model B - The essential tacticool flashlight (ultracompact size with design reference to Streamlight Protac L1 or Utorch SF01 but with 18650 size and dual switch)

► 18650 size, no USB-port, dual switch, as compact as it gets (YLP Unicorn size with dual switch design), as lightweight as it gets, simple but configurable UI (stepped modes + ramping)

Model C - the "no frills" tactical flashlight (ultra-sturdy, heavyweight, made rocksolid like Jetbeam TH20 or Surefire 6P)

► 18650 size, no USB-port, no dual switch design, tailclicky only, not as compact as Model B but more sturdy, ultra-easy UI (2 modes, 2 mode groups only: high - low, low - high)

Errmm…I vote for model A. I own xt21x, btw I’m interested on how tactical works with anduril….

Yes, model A for me, but I hope that “full-size” refers to the features and not the actual size, which I like to be compact. I dislike carrying more than needed: material thickness should at every spot be optimal but not thicker than that, same for length: as long as needed for an optimal flashlight but no mm longer.
The example pictures distract me from the choices btw, i.e. that Klarus is ugly.

I guess it’s difficult to make a design that will please everyone

I realy love “tacticool” flashlights and this is what I’d really love in a new flashlight

–140mm max length
–34mm head
-Rear rubber cigar ring
-support for 21700 cells
-USB C charging with powerbank function
-Rear raised forward switch (no ability to tailstand, but we can make threads in the tailcap so you can put some ring that will allow the light to tailstand and hide the switch)
-Easily findable side switch
-More than 1500lm and 400m in turbo)
-Double tube design to allow both switchs to work
-Side switch to control a very simplified ramping UI (click to last used mode, long click from off for moonlight)
-Rear switch will only turn on turbo, no matter if it’s ON or OFF. Depressing again the rear switch will return to the previous mode after pressing it (off or on)
-Simple and good 3v potted driver, very reliable

That is what I really miss now in tactical lights, but I’d also love something very strong and reliable while being small (option B)

As far as I have read und understood somewhere elso on BLF, Andúril is actually capable to work with a dual switch design. Sofirn's new SP70 update is meant to work with Andúril, i.e. tail clicky for momentary on and physical on/off while the e-switch is doing everything else. The remaining question will be: Is ToyKeeper interested in providing a "tactically purged" version of Andúril for a whole series of tactical/tacticool flashlights?

@ Djozz: It sounds like you want to have the best of both worlds (Model A + Model B) in one flashlight. That might lead us back close to the current design I have posted in the OP. It seems that covering the USB-C port effectively can make costs get out of hand. I talked about it with Sofirn as well and they told me costs would significantly increase with a "hidden" USB port.

I do agree about the rather ugly design of the XT21X. I prefer using an efficient single TIR optic to keep the head diameter as small as possible without too many trade offs with the beam profile. I don't want the head to be twice as big as the tube. If the head will be only slightly bigger than the tube we should better be aiming for reasonable lumen numbers around 1000 - 1.500lm and not just another heating rod, shouldn't we?

In some way we need to find a compromise between: size vs. sturdiness vs. thermal design vs. weight vs. extra features.

Before starting the poll I hope to make sure that all three concepts will differ enough from each other. However, my assumption is that the end will look like 33%, 33%, 33%. :-D In other words: It might be worthwhile to build all three models.