Heres a comparison of an SC64 LE (left) vs H600c MkIV (right)
“0.05lm” vs “0.08lm” respectively; this shows that it’s hard to get solid numbers with output this low.
I would hazard a guess that actual runtimes vs advertised runtimes are also something that can vary greatly as well? I am pretty new to a lot of this so I am trying to learn all I can.
I still have original box with 10.14.2014 written on it. It is my favorite EDC.
All I know is that it is an SC62,I think “D” version but not positive. 0.01 Lumens as others have mentioned.
You can see a scratch on the lens in this picture.
No it is not hard. Get yourself a 16 dollar luxmeter that reads as low as 0.1 lux, a 4 dollar styrofoam ball, a small piece of alu-tape and some cellotape to close the ball and fix the luxmeter. Two holes with an exacto knife later, and a basic calibration with a known output light, you have a measuring device that measures fairly accurate and repeatable down to 0.005 lumen, and a bit coarser down to 0.002 lumen.
I just received an AAA Manker E02 (Red body) that has a programmable moonlight level with a range of 19!!! different sublumen levels
this is the lowest, it is lower than any light I own except my magnetic rotaries
The above lumen values come from my own tests, I do not rely on mfg specifications.
the E02 actually reads ZERO on my meter (my meter’s lowest reading capability is 0.01, which means the E02 is making less than 0.005 lumens, due to rounding)
When researching a light, I use google image search, to look for reviews with independent output and runtime charts. I especially like reviews by zeroair, he is very thorough, but I did not find an E02 review on his site…
Thrunite Ti, firefly mode is 0.04 lumen…
that is a specification, but not actually correct, mine is actually 0.07 lumens minimum
I suggest you find an independent review, or use your own meter to measure.
It is also likely that not every light achieves the specification. That is the point BurningPlayd0h made in post 26 above, about his Zebras…
what the manufaturer specs say is not necessarily true, neither for output, nor for runtime
Trust, But Verify!
Sorry, I was just referring to the specs. I have the orignal run Ti which I think many of us got for $5 
Its my most fav middle of the night bathroom use light!
Mine is also original, it was sold as a TiXmas
the Manker goes a LOT lower, though whether or not it is “too” low, depends on the application.
the brightness of the Manker can be raised to match the Ti3 if desired. imo the Manker w N219c produces a more pleasant color and CRI, than the Ti3
If something is 0.04lm still does not mean it is directly comparable to another light because of many reasons.
-Almost all the time all these ultra low lumen measurements are incorrect
-Not all LEDs have the same efficiency, one LED mode needs one current for the same lm value, another LED needs another current for the same lm value as the other LED model.
-Not all drivers have the same efficiency, actually ultra low currents are highly inefficient on pretty much all drivers, so extrapolated runtimes which all manufacturers offer are only that.
-Different cells types (chemistry, capacity, self-discharge, etc) offer differ runtimes.
So comparing flashlights based on manufacturer advertisements is as unrealistic as it gets.
I just measured the lowest moon setting of my Manker E02 with 4000K 219C at 0.002 lumen, right at the limit what I can measure. Unfortunately the current drain stays high at 5.56 mA because the MCU is kept awake, so in 6 days your battery is empty (could be 14 years if it was just the led that used current).
What is the actual accuracy of these sensors at levels that low though?
These luxmeters use silicon sensors that are as far as I know lineair in their whole range. At least I never noticed alinearity and I also know no sources that say otherwise (I did search for it)
King of the Lowest
My Red Manker E02 w N219c, is my new Firefly King.
No PWM, and it is High CRI.
I dont worry about runtime.
I use rechargeables, and turn my lights off when Im sleeping.
by my meter the 21 steps of available minimum modes goes from
<0.005 lumens, up to 0.6 lumens… hard to beat those options imo
AAA King of the Lowest
My Red Manker E02 w N219c, is my new AAA Firefly King.
No PWM, and it is High CRI.
I dont worry about runtime.
I use rechargeables, and turn my lights off when Im sleeping.
by my meter the 21 steps of available minimum modes goes from
<0.005 lumens, up to 0.6 lumens… hard to beat those options imo
Surprisingly good!
My meter is giving the same minimum lumen level as djozz, using totally different equipment, thousands of miles apart.
in any case, in the photos that show more than one light at the same time, it is pretty obvious that the E02 goes significantly lower than the Ti3, and even goes as ridiculously low as the Jetbeam Rotary in this post. (The rotary changes modes much more easily though)
At this point, the question is, how low do you want to go?
cause the E02 can go a LOT lower than most people would ever want, most of the time… 
(and there is no AAA Zebra option, and zebras flicker, the Manker does not)
[QUOTE=maukka;5094246]Just an update on Zebralights since I got my faster sensor.
It’s not PWM as discussed previously, but don’t be surprised if you see flickering on camera.
I don’t remember the exact modes these were measured from, but it is similar on some L and M modes. The frequency changes depending on the mode.
In all the pictures horizontal center line is zero output. So it’s more than just a very low amplitude flicker especially on the SC5Fc.
H600Fd
SC600w Mk3 HI
SC5Fc
[/QUOTE]
imo zebras long runtime is due to the way the LED is being pulsed, very quickly, brighter and dimmer… most people dont notice in casual use … the pulsing is more a concern to me when the light is used as the only ambient light source, for long periods…
.
anyway, Manker Vs Zebra is another thread, forgive the hijack
The only thing I wish was different on the E02 is the weight. It is twice as heavy as my other AAA aluminium lights, and weighs the same as my Copper Tool (which lacks firefly though).
The heavy weight, is what is stopping me from buying the Ti version of the E02. (1/2 oz heavier than my Copper Tools). How long can someone that values programmable firefly resist?.. Not sure… I will get back to you on that…
whatever the manker U11 uses - is too low, i think it is 0.2 lumens
you can;t see @#$ % with it
wle
I read the low is 1 lumen on that U11
whatever works for your situation is the right thing
you are probably dealing with non black of night adaptation… with more ambient stray light affecting your dark adaptation
the lowest firefly on the Manker E02, is only useful to me when I wake up in pitch black darkness, to see the toilet paper, before I go back to sleep
that firefly is definitely useless during the day, I cant tell its on, unless I hold the LED up to my eyeball
tritiums are also useless during the day, but amazingly useful to see a light on the nightstand, when I wake in the middle of the night…
you may not be of an age that wakes up multiple times needing to pee
thats when firefly became relevant to me
I dont like turning on the bathroom light, in the middle of the night
hope thats not too graphic
different strokes for different horses
Exactly this! I have the Manker E02 and it is very good for this, second only to the RRT 01
[quote=cyclops]
Sorry, I was just referring to the specs. I have the orignal run Ti which I think many of us got for $5 Its my most fav middle of the night bathroom use light!
[/quote]
Sorry Jon the Thrunite Ti he's talking about is a 2 mode crusher in aluminum with like 5 colors not the silver three mode light you own .
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/9006#new
Also a thrower in a moon mode vs a floody light may have the same numbers and yet look like one is much brighter .
I use rechargeable and never really sleep with the light on, but during the summer, I travel on long motorcycle trips and camp each night. My bike (Harley Ultra Limited) has lighter ports and even a usb port, so I can typically charge during the riding day.
However, in the fall and winter I backpack and camp where there is no.power and no ambient light. I have a 21w solar panel for sunny days, but I want to take lights with me that can hold up to several days use without charging.
It is amazing how much light .5 or 1 lumen can be with a diffuser in a tent when there is no ambient light (overcast…no stars or moon). I camp where the nearest town (population 298) is 15 miles away, so it is DARK!