Thanks
I think he means the 17/22mm SST40 driver that we can ask for Biscotti on - if that’s going to be made available in 20mm format.
Is that just an Attiny13 on it? Maybe I should have grabbed those instead of the 6A CC drivers 
If the 22mm boost driver with Biscotti UI which you supposedly use for the M21C/M26C with XHP70.2 leds will be also abailible in 20mm size.
If someone else have received that new biscotti driver. I have current 17mm version with 4 modes and will be interesting if we can just upgrade it the firmware. I supposed that biscotti firmware is ported to another micro different from Attiny series.
What chip is on that board? Care to take some good photos that show the MCU?
Ok I will made some close up pictures with my Andonstar micro and will post them soon. But I think marks on micro and transistors was laser trimmed. Also from Convoy store listing we can see markings of transistors but the MCU is it without it. Also it have 10 pins compared to 8 pins of Attiny so the Biscotti firmware is most likely ported to another MCU family.
I got mine and yes, the markings on the mcu and mosfet are removed.
oh ,sorry ,20mm is small
Sorry,As a trade secret, the driver manufacturer does not want to disclose the model name.
Biscotti is distributed under GPLv3 license.
This license means that you Simon (as the seller of drivers) are required by law to distribute the sources. Not just the generic biscotti that was the base for you but the exact one that you distribute on your drivers, complete with any changes that were done to port it to that MCU. That is - unless you receive a more free license from ToyKeeper.
I want see a cigar light host like s21a,with 22mm size driver size
Yeah, that driver manufacturer sounds a bit… interesting. Knowing the model of an MCU doesn’t sound particularly secret given every other driver I’ve seen has all the markings on them.
Oh well.
Usually it's easy to trace where VCC and Ground get connected to the MCU, and that, along with the package and pins, can narrow down the choices of MCU's. PIC's are usually one config for VCC/Grnd, different from Atmel's.
It's kind of despicable what's going on here - open source firmware running on proprietary hardware, where secrecy seems to be the goal. Do they really think they have something so special and unique, they want to copy protect the design but use someones else's firmware they don't have to pay for? Of course we know there's lots of stolen ideas/designs there - it's the wild wild west, but a simple flashlight driver? I dunno...
As I understand it, the Chinese electronics market is incredibly competitive, with so many firms making parts for each other and then selling them at a premium to one or discounting the others. Some manufacturers sell to only certain companies with the promise their identity is kept secret, otherwise other competitors might get wise and copy the design or undercut them on pricing. If you’ve ever opened up products from different manufacturers, you get an idea of this. An LG vs Memorex versus a Coby portable DVD player,for example. The LG will have better quality control, probably some better design (more SMD vs through hole) with better parts. The other brands might have cheaper plastics, more theough hole with bodging and solder flux, etc. However, the same company might supply ICs or parts to all the big OEMs. In China everything is counterfeited or copied (even flashlights folks).
Regardless of that, if it’s using Biscotti, they have to be open about it. If they don’t want to be open, use another firmware.
Selling the driver without being able and willing to provide the source code of the version of the Biscotti firmware running on it is copyright infringement unless ToyKeeper has specifically given Convoy permission to sell it without providing the source code. Providing the source code for a version that doesn’t run on this MCU is not sufficient.
That does not, strictly mean that the make and model of the MCU has to be disclosed, but it’s probably easy enough to determine from the source code and its physical layout.
To clear up any confusion…
I have not given Convoy any special licenses. If this product ships without providing full source code, it will probably be a license violation, and Convoy would lose the right to sell anything based on my code.
Full details are in the license (translated: zh-cn, zh-tw).
It is not difficult to satisfy, and usually costs nothing. It is a “share and share alike” style license, meaning that anyone who distributes a compiled version (including derivatives) must also provide the complete source code for that same version, under the same license, retaining all the original copyright marks.
Usually people satisfy the license by doing the following:
- Publish a message somewhere prominent stating that the product uses copyrighted code released under the GNU Public License v3 (GPLv3).
- Include information about how to get the exact source code used in the product. If it is an unmodified version, a link to the upstream code works. Or if it’s modified, they must find a way to publish the version they used.
That info generally goes on the product page and/or in the included paper manual. Ideally both:
- The license applies to anyone who distributes the code in a compiled form, which includes companies who sell products based on the code. In other words, it applies to every vendor and reseller. So it’s a good idea to put the information in a printed manual which ships with the product, because that means the vendor doesn’t have to know or care about the license.
- Even if the license info is in the manual, it is also a good idea to include the license info on the original manufacturer’s product page too. This allows people to verify the license is being fulfilled, which means I don’t have to bother the manufacturers with messages like this one.
The concept of “trade secret” is completely incompatible with the concept of free software. The whole point is that nothing is secret — anyone can use it however they want, as long as they make sure the same freedom is passed on to others.
Yeah, I worked for a place that made POS equipment (no, actually POS, as in point-of-sale), and to the outside observer, the place was the definition of hypocrisy.
The owners loved to flaunt their “status” and “wealth”, but treated all their underlings as coolie labor. Might be shocking to us who call the boss “Bob” or “Pete” or “Jane”, but there, that behavior/attitude is the norm. “Know your place.”
What got me, though, is that I was tasked with repurposing one of their controller boards to do something specific as a one-off project, on a rather strict deadline as the owner was going back overseas for a while and wanted to take the prototype with him.
Okay, no prob. It’s a highly integrated 8x51 variant, lots of peripherals on-board, let me have a look at some existing code so I wouldn’t have to “reinvent the wheel” (setting up all memory-maps, port addresses, interrupts, etc.). Ohhhh, no. Ohhhhh, Hell no. Those are secret, and you don’t have “clearance” to look at that! All this from a piss-ant company of a coupla dozen people total.
Umm, okay, so how do you expect me to write firmware to do what you want, in such a short timeframe? Well, you have books and manuals, you can look it up, no? Again, back to the reinventing-the-wheel part. Hell, I wasn’t even given a schematic to see what lines from the µC were connected to the outside world; I was expected to visually trace the board to find out what went where. They wanted me to (selectively) reverse-engineer one of their boards, so they wouldn’t have to show me so much as a line of source-code or even top-level schematic of the donk.
I said screw that, I’ll write it in C and send signals to the printer-port. Pick ’em off the ribbon-cable…
The fun part, though? They did their own bit of REing competitors’ boards, trashed hard-disks deliberately (destructive testing by giving ’em heat-stroke) then returned them under warranty, pir8ed M$ licenses to install Windows on embedded systems (buy 100, install 1000), etc.
Oh, and then after I “unthinkingly” trashed dead HDs instead of returning them to stock (to be returned to the mfr under warranty), they tried to stick me personally for the cost of the drives! I had enough at that point, and even tried ratting ’em out to M$, but they’d have none of it, and expected me to pretty much prepare their case for them, else they weren’t interested. :person_facepalming:
Anyway, in earlier conversations with the chief engineer or lead engineer or whatever he was, he unabashedly said it’s SOP. Pir8 stuff from all over, keep your stuff secret (or try to), no such thing as “ethics”. Just the way of doing business. In fact, it’s not even seen as doing anything wrong, but is expected. As in, he wasn’t trying to defend their actions in any way (as he saw nothing wrong with them, thus nothing to defend), and was surprised that I had an issue with it.
It’s a cultural thing, I guess. Again, just the standard way of doing business. Takes a while to wrap your head around it. Kinda like watching the dog licking himself right in front of you when you’re watching teevee. You call out “Hey, stop that!”, and the dog gives you this “What’s your problem?” look.
Ok, that's pretty bad. Mostly the small guys I've worked for were basically honest, innovative, trying their best to bring something new to the market. But I've heard other stories around, too.
Knew a fairly big local distributor of computers/parts/etc. that used to go "shopping" thru his warehouse for stuff he'd sell on the side, then write it off as employee theft, and meanwhile having cameras and security everywhere to be sure nothing disappears.
Lightbringer - didn't realize you were in the biz. Been doing this stuff wayyy too long, since 78, and bought the original IBM PC for like $3500 just to play with. Ended up being a good investment though.