Tesla's "Secret" Battery

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Lightbringer
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It’s all fun’n‘games ‘til your Tesla slides under a semi and cuts yer head off…

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Scallywag
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I agree, it’s ridiculous. But I’d feel much safer if certain other drivers that are on the road all had certain safety features like lanekeep assist. So they don’t change lanes into ME or rear-end ME. I’d of course prefer they be better drivers…

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xevious
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MoreLumens wrote:
Best drive assist is driver itself. I mean all that safety tech is good when and if it works, like if driver is getting stroke so car wont slam into others rear, but you never should trust too much to that tech when you are cruising along. I think it just might give some people false security like I have all these gadgets and stuff so I can drive faster, I can pay little less attention to traffic etc.
But like with everything has his pros and cons.
I like the emergency braking system, to cover for you if you happen to mess up. THAT is a smart device. But adaptive cruise control? BAD. Because it lulls the driver into paying less attention. Driver’s shouldn’t be doing anything except DRIVING. You don’t need to be “relieved” of the cognitive function of keeping a safe distance.

What is missing is a TAILGATE ALERT. Heck, they’ve got distance sensors for parking. Use them while traveling.

  1. If your car gets too close to the car in front of you, a bright yellow dashboard light starts to flash. If after 5 seconds you have not corrected, a beeping alarm goes off in the cabin. If you STILL ignore it, the car takes control of the accelerator and eases up on the gas for a few seconds. If the driver can’t “handle” this, they shouldn’t be driving.
  2. If the car behind you gets too close, the 3rd brake light starts pulsating. If that car doesn’t back off, reverse lights start flashing as well. If a cop spots this, they’ve got every right to pull over the offending vehicle and issue a costly ticket.

This should be happening already to SCHOOL the idiots who just refuse to practice safe driving.

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I had an idea about 20 yrs ago (in high-tech Austin back when it existed) while out with drinks with my programmers/board designers.

Idea: Make a GUN that shoots… (wait for it)… code. Not infrared, but radio and at a certain frequency (bought by the “police” lobby in Washington at the FCC auction that was selling off cell phone bandwidth at that time— and since). A narrow band device ON the car that ONLY has one job: to take electronic “bullets” from other drivers’ electronic guns.

So… if you drive like a “coitus’ing donkey hole”… within a year you’re going to have THOUSANDS of “hits” which should cost lets say about $5 a hit. So— a $10,000 fine to get your license renewed and goes to a PUBLIC fund paid out to drivers with LOW hit points— and NOT insurance (scam artist) companies— but right BACK in the pockets of good drivers.

Now, like military school… you got a few freeby hits to avoid “tour duty”— since some people got nothing to do but shoot other drivers (and they ALSO have a fine if too many shots are fired). So it’s a completely feasible idea (20 years ago even), and totally democratic.

I guess this is what happens growing up smoking (really bad) weed, playing LOTS of dungeons and dragons in high school, and finally getting out of college and jumping into the (kinda) real world of high tech back when we were ALL doing start-ups (even for just for a week over beers) Cool

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All this talk of safety features reminded me of Tullock’s Spike.

I found this article on ‘risk compensation,’ with some seemingly counterintuitive scenarios.

The article includes H-Day, when Sweden switched from driving on the left to driving on the right, and two groups of German taxis, one with and one without anti-lock brakes.

I will, however, admit to feeling a tiny bit safer when the car behind me on the highway is a Tesla. Party Do all of their models have front-end collision prevention?

Lightbringer
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That’s also a Houseism.

“If you want people to drive safer, take out the airbags and attach a machete pointing at their neck. No one will drive over three miles per hour.”

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wle
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Muto wrote:
kennybobby wrote:
JaredM wrote:
Sirstinky wrote:
They do have plug-in hybrids and I think those are the real solution to pure electric for now or until we find a way to make portable fusion generators. A small, efficient diesel or gas engine or flex fuel like E85 or E100, LPG etc. with a electric motor. .

.. The part that I don’t understand is why auto-manufactures still use a complex and difficult-to-design hybrid drive-train. The only thing that should be driving the wheels is electric motors. When the IC starts up, it’s simply turning a generator that’s directly charging the pack and/or powering the motor>>wheels. ..

We get this question all the time, nearly every week somebody (usually not an EV driver) comes up with this “range extender” idea on the EV forums. The problem is that you can’t charge a battery while it is being used to drive the car—the duty cycle of driving an EV with both motoring and regen modes, results in varying voltage and currents in and out of the pack.

Imagine the complexity of a Charger that would be required to compensate in real time for these currents; as it is now no chargers exist that will sink current, they expect to provide either a constant current or a constant voltage for a lithium ion battery pack. (CC/CV)

The conversion losses would be huge: convert fuel to run an IC engine and turn a loaded generator, then to extract electrical power from generator, rectify the generator output (AC) to create a high voltage DC buss with PFC, chop this DC thru boost transformers and rectify to create the DC voltage and current to recharge the pack. Now add some non-existent protection control stage to account for the acceleration and deceleration of the driver’s foot.

That is why the hybrids have both electric and IC engines, it is an easier cat to skin.

Most commutes are 50 miles or less, the newer EVs have 100 miles or more of range. You don’t need a range extender for commuting, but for the several times a year when you need to make a long trip, then go rent a car. Keeps it all simple.

I think understand your logic and it sounds right.
Could the car not have 2 separate packs though?
One to power the car now while it is in motion and another that is powered by the IC when range or excessive current demands are obvious (heat, AC, Mountains) so the reserve pack is always topped up, the packs would alternate usage as needed. Then you do not need fancy charging logic?
Still have the home charging deal, just talking about in motion charging usage with the dual pack.
Just a thought from a dummy.

yes but now
a. the battery is twice as expensive
b. they weigh about 900 lbs so it is not trivial to swap them around

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I was driving the Tesla around the outskits of town one day, exhausted from a bad night’s sleep. I was paying attention to driving, but had let my eyes relax a bit out of focus since it was a straight stretch with no stops, and I was following the flow of traffic. I have NOT paid for autopilot. Suddenly a warning beep came over the speakers and the brakes engaged. I came to attention and realized the car in front of me had slammed on his brakes for a nearly-missed turn, but none of his tail-lights worked! Clearly Autopilot is watching out for my safety even though I have never paid for it. It’s moments like this that make you a fan of Tesla.

If it was a Ford, the system would be dead until you paid. And crashes just be examples of why you should have paid.

Scallywag
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Joshk wrote:
I was driving the Tesla around the outskits of town one day, exhausted from a bad night’s sleep. I was paying attention to driving, but had let my eyes relax a bit out of focus since it was a straight stretch with no stops, and I was following the flow of traffic. I have NOT paid for autopilot. Suddenly a warning beep came over the speakers and the brakes engaged. I came to attention and realized the car in front of me had slammed on his brakes for a nearly-missed turn, but none of his tail-lights worked! Clearly Autopilot is watching out for my safety even though I have never paid for it. It’s moments like this that make you a fan of Tesla.

If it was a Ford, the system would be dead until you paid. And crashes just be examples of why you should have paid.


Man. I don’t know what’s worse, the cars with no working brake lights, or the idiots that drive down the street with the brake pedal accidentally feathered so their brake lights are always on.

EDC Rotation: ZL SC62(w) | Jaxman E2L XP-G2 5A | Purple S2+ XPL-HI U6-3A | D4 w/ Luxeon V | RRT-01 | Purple FW3A, 4000K SST20
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Lightbringer wrote:
Thank B’harni (pbuh!) my (2013) Buick doesn’t have all that garbage. All this crap to keep you from rear-ending the car in front, from drifting out of your lane, from falling asleep at the wheel, from leaving your coffeemaker on when you leave the house, all that nonsense. Newer models do, but I hang onto cars with a death-grip ‘til they decide on their own to go to the Great Junkyard In The Sky.

Yeah, I’m driving an ’08 suv and my wife won’t let go of the 2000 suv (lucky me) because she thinks the seat is so comfy. A new Subie sounds like such fun. The payment, not so much. Ughh

But how are they ever going to take control of our older model suvs and force us to crash? Silly I guess they’ll have to finish us off some other way….

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Rexlion wrote:
I guess they’ll have to finish us off some other way….

I don’t even know what you drive and I can guess it has a faulty air bag and a bad safety rating. Give it time Silly
Lightbringer
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Wellp, my old Cavalier with the 2.0L 4-banger (a whopping 88hp!) burned so clean, that even with a hollow cat it passed inspection every year without a hitch for something like 5yrs straight. Muffler guy banged on it and it rang like a bell. “Want a new one?” “Nope, don’t need one.” LOL

 

That all changed one year when the state halved allowable emissions. Think it went from 8.00g/mi to 4.00g/mi of whatever. Was the only time it flunked, and then just barely, at 4.04g/mi. For some reason I still remember that.

Anyway, the mechanic was giving me crap about it. Too much NOx means it’s running too lean, too much HC means it’s running too rich, blah blah blah.

“Put in a new cat.”

“No, no, no, we have to diagnose this right…”

“Put in a new cat.”

“…”

“Seriously, JUST PUT IN A NEW CAT.”

Did, and it passed even cleaner than before, amazingly enough.

 

Made it to something like 23yo before it gave up the ghost. 2yrs more and it would’ve been considered a “classic car”, and no more smogging, just safety checks.

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BurningPlayd0h
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I definitely wouldn’t want a car without ABS here, it’s extremely helpful in the 6 months of snow and ice every year.

Kinda the same with manual transmission. I’m sure there are plenty out there that could drive it safely in any circumstance, but there’s so many terrible drivers out there as it is so I’m glad there’s one less thing for them to screw up. Just don’t ask them a question while they’re driving and or they might stop breathing! Wink

MoreLumens
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
I definitely wouldn’t want a car without ABS here, it’s extremely helpful in the 6 months of snow and ice every year.

Kinda the same with manual transmission. I’m sure there are plenty out there that could drive it safely in any circumstance, but there’s so many terrible drivers out there as it is so I’m glad there’s one less thing for them to screw up. Just don’t ask them a question while they’re driving and or they might stop breathing! Wink

I been driving maybe 3-4 winters without studded tires and abs’s. Some anticipation and planning helps a lot, keeping enough safe distance to others and keeping your speed suitable for road conditions rather than speed limits. I like manual more at winters because much better motor braking and when your on drive at automatic it keeps pushing you forward or atleast if you drive rwd car and front brakes are so much more efficient so you still need to go for the stick and get on neutral in some situations.

I will never ever get a car fitted with abs’s and studless winter tires. If you try to stop that on icy downhill it just wont stop.When roads are just wet ice. No snow at all, just hard ice with water on top. With studs yes it stops, without abs not so sure even with those. Studless tires are kinda must in some conditions or not sure how good those best of the best studless winter tires are these days, but still nothing beats studs.
Abs’s are really good safety feature otherwise. Only in some special conditions they aint really doing what they should.

xevious
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I’ve owned cars without and with ABS. I find ABS is better. I know how to pump my brakes. But ABS does it better, because there’s no human decision making involved. It’s easy to panic if pumping isn’t doing enough & then jam brakes fully on.

The auto emergency-braking system on the Tesla & on some luxury cars (Mercedes, Lexus, Audi) is great as a fall-back. But adaptive cruise control encourages lack of human attentiveness. Fine for good drivers, but for less skilled drivers it can create dangerous situations.

MoreLumens
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xevious wrote:
I’ve owned cars without and with ABS. I find ABS is better. I know how to pump my brakes. But ABS does it better, because there’s no human decision making involved. It’s easy to panic if pumping isn’t doing enough & then jam brakes fully on.

Yeah abs beats regular brakes with almost every other scenario though. Off-roading is one thing where good old brakes works wonders.

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Joshk wrote:
If it was a Ford, the system would be dead until you paid. And crashes just be examples of why you should have paid.

Automatic braking isn’t the autopilot package. Tesla includes the hardware for self-driving features standard based on a business model that heavily promotes the self-driving upgrade package, and reducing hardware differences, which makes it straightforward to implement automatic braking, even though they leave the rest of the automatic features deactivated. This fits with their place as a luxury car manufacturer. Other manufacturers have typically only installed the hardware if the automated features are included in the options package the car is being built to.

That is changing, however. Automatic braking is being made standard by all the major manufacturers by 2022. As of 2 years ago, Ford’s plan was to roll it out as they implement model upgrades, and to have the overwhelming majority of their cars equipped with it by this year. Elsewhere I saw an update for 2019 indicating they were at 65% that year.

https://www.cars.com/articles/safety-standard-ford-to-include-auto-braki...

Quote:
Ford will begin making a full suite of safety and driver assistance technology, including a front collision system with automatic emergency braking, standard on all of its new vehicles …. It says that 91 percent of its vehicles in North America will have a standard Co-Pilot360 safety package by 2020.
Joshk
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iamlucky13 wrote:
Automatic braking isn’t the autopilot package.

But it is. If you watch the screen in my car as I drive you see it visualizing the lane markers and other cars. And this is without Autopilot paid for. The only difference between my car and one with “Autopilot” is they have taken away the enable button from the driver. Want proof? If I let go of my steering wheel and the car heads for the ditch, the same warning sound comes across the speakers. But instead of applying the brake, it engages full autopilot for 1 second and straightens the car out. Notice I didn’t say it steers left. With your hand on the wheel you can feel it’s driving a full corrective S shape to fix your trajectory.
It’s become obvious the car doesn’t just use proximity to brake or painted lines to jerk the car away. It is Autopilot being engaged to act with the least amount of panic required to fix the situation. When it brakes, it has already determined the best stopping distance. When it steers, it has calculated a path to follow. It really is the Autopilot system running in the background.

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