Emisar is the highest quality brand available.

Definitely well thought out lights with zero jank.

There’s a reason I’ve collected so many already.

I only recently discovered the joy of flashaholism, and I already have 4 D4V2 Ti in various flavors, a D18, a D4SV2 and a KR1.

Nice!

There is definitely some good value coming through on these smaller flashlight companies. Emisar / Noctigon is charging more than their direct competition, but for good reason. Then relative to the other much bigger makers, I agree Emisar quality gives them a run for the money. Sometimes there are models that stand out as better quality, not necessarily tied to price. Regarding Nitecore, I was pleased with the EA4 (1st edition) but wasn’t happy with the control button. They switched it out for a 2 button system that works very well, something they used on the EC4GT. Now that light is superb. Super seriously solid build. Rugged 2x18650 construction. It had so much potential, but… they kind of squandered it. The EC4GTS came with XHP35, but actually less throw. Then the EC4S totally dropped the ball, various problems, lower throw, more of a broad spill. Looks like they’re going to discontinue that form factor, which is a shame because I think it has a lot of potential. I could see a slightly larger version using 2x21700.

I’d really like to see Zebralight step up and release a version like that. Still single emitter. And who knows, in another year or so, perhaps they’ll further enhance their UI, a kind of “Anduril lite.” I’m very curious to see what Emisar comes up with down the road as well.

With more general audiences finding Anduril-based lights lately, I’ve been thinking I should completely rewrite muggle mode and have it enabled by default. This would provide a simple and safe interface out of the box, with the ability to turn it off later to access more features.

Specifically, instead of being a separate mode, the muggle / simple UI would be more like an overlay which turns off any config options or extra modes… and makes the dangerously-bright levels unavailable. It would mostly just behave like a “normal” flashlight. But there would still be an option to take the restrictions off and enable the full feature set, for people who want the extras.

While changing that, it could also be a good time to do some other changes which break backward compatibility. Like… making config modes a bit harder to access so it won’t happen by accident.

I would suggest to have to separate versions so many of us do not have to relearn Anduril. I’ve been buying many Andúril-based lights of late because of its extra modes.

How would that difference translate in real life? I am not quite sure I understand your proposition.

I’m not sure about the details yet. However, the rough idea is:

  • The “muggle” mode would be default, and would get enabled again after each factory reset.
  • Instead of “muggle” mode, it would probably just be more of a “simple” mode or “Anduril lite”. So, it would be nicer than the current muggle mode.
  • Config modes and other extras would be off-limits in simple mode, so people wouldn’t be able to get stuck in weird modes or change any settings by accident.

Not sure yet what would be allowed in simple mode and what wouldn’t. I might start a thread or something to ask people what they think should be included. So far, I’m guessing at least the smooth ramp from low to medium, and the battery check mode. Maybe also lockout mode. Just like now, the ceiling level would vary per light depending on what each model can do safely.

Probably no strobes, no other blinky-group modes, no turbo, no stepped ramp, no momentary mode, no config modes, no manual memory, and maybe no moon (except perhaps as hold-from-off?).

To remove the limitations, the user would need to press something they almost certainly won’t do by accident, like 6H or 8H or 10H.

In visual form, simple mode might look something like this…

You’re thinking that muggles are going to buy a dangerous light. For their safety muggle mode should be enabled by default.

But I’m not sure you’ve quite thought through all the ramifications. Consider the following:

I. What happens if muggle mode is enabled by default?
If you enable muggle mode by default there are going to be a LOT of very disgruntled muggles who buy Anduril lights, don’t read the fine print in the manual, and then are incredibly disappointed that the light that they just bought that was advertised as “5,000 lumens” only appears to output 300 lumens. They’ll think the light is defective and promptly seek a refund, or flood the seller and manufacturer with complaints about selling a defective or inferior product. They may even accuse the seller of false advertising.

II. What about a warning in the box to inform customers about muggle mode?
To avoid that kind of customer disappointment, any manufacturer selling a light with muggle mode activated by default would need to include a very prominent warning placard at the top of the box explaining that the light ships in muggle mode, what muggle mode is, and how to get out of it.

… and of course upon seeing that any muggle would promptly then follow the instructions and exit muggle mode, which defeats the purpose of enabling it by default.

Muggles would also be a bit disgruntled by the extra hoop they had to jump through to get their new light working properly.

III. Perhaps the manufacturer should only advertise muggle-mode ratings?
This won’t work either.

If only muggle mode ratings are advertised the theory is most muggles won’t find out about non-muggle mode. Only enthusiasts who can handle the power will learn about it and safety is preserved. Would this strategy work? … not really.

The reason: lumens sell. A flashlight retailer is not going to market a 5000 lumen light as a “300 lumen” light. Such a light isn’t going to sell when there are so many other competing lights in similar size in the 1000+ lumen range. No muggle is going to look twice at such a “weak” light.

Of course informed flasholics on this forum would know about non-muggle mode and might still buy the light. But marketing a light to just members of this forum is a vanishingly tiny market. Most most manufacturers want to sell lights to more than just members of BLF.

BOTTOM LINE: MUGGLE MODE BY DEFAULT = NO-WIN STRATEGY. :weary:

Maybe leaving Andúril untouched (except bugfixes/ports) and giving the rewritten code a new name would be a good idea?

TK - I think you have a point here - I do find myself in Ramp config sometimes with 4 clicks done mistakenly.

It’s less of a theory and more of an observation. Muggles are buying dangerous lights, more and more often, so I’m looking for ways to address the complaints people have had.

Exactly. It’s happening quite a bit lately, so there has been a big increase in demand for “Anduril LITE” or other simplifications. I don’t want to ship items without the ability to do all the fun stuff though, so I’m looking for a way to do both.

It seems like the options are limited to only the following:

  • Make a simple UI the only option.
  • Manufacturer replaces the firmware with their own simple UI.
  • Default to a simple UI, but include an option to enable more stuff if the user wants it.
  • Limit sales to only a few enthusiast communities.

The first two have already happened a few times… because option 3 doesn’t exist and companies don’t like option 4 at all.

It’s not just safety though. People keep reporting that they feel overwhelmed and confused by all the features, and they want something which does less. Some are quite vocal about it, or even angry. So a few companies have already responded to this by making less-functional products, on purpose, to fill the demand.

Of course, at BLF we generally don’t want lights to do less. But maybe it’ll serve both crowds if it does less by default, but has an option so we can easily enable the full feature set.

There’s still a lot of communication to do first though, to make sure everyone’s needs are addressed and try to find agreeable solutions.

One thing I’m pretty sure of though… is that it’ll need to be renamed so it’s not called “muggle mode”. That’s arguably a bit insulting and makes it sound like something people should turn off immediately and never think about again. Instead, it might need to be something like “normal mode” and “advanced mode”. Or something which otherwise suggests that it’s okay to leave it in the default state if the user isn’t feeling adventurous.

Yeah, it could perhaps be Anduril2 or something. I don’t know; I’m terrible with names.

Maybe have some sort of ‘safety pin’ which isn’t supplied with retail lights, but could be sold as an extra on places like Neals, which is slightly more niche or on forums for enthusiasts.
When the ‘pin’ is in it opens up ‘allsingingalldancingpaperlightingballoonburstingmayhem’ :smiling_imp: :stuck_out_tongue:
Joking aside, it’s not the worst idea. Obviously you can’t stop a muggle if they really want one, but at least you tried.
Could be as simple as a small unique earphone jack in the tailcap? I dunno lol! I know lasers have basic pins of sorts.

That’s an inherent problem when selling a hand-grenade to The Muggle.

It’s all fun’n’games ’til someone burns a hole in his coffee table or sets his kid’s pyjamas on fire.

“Special” mode. :laughing:

Something that doesn’t autocorrect to “Andouille”?

It defiantly should be changed. (Ha! See what I did there?)

ToyKeeper, What happened with Programming a flashlight from a computer screen :question:

Is programing the light via an app on the phone to feasible?

Using the LEDs as light sensors only works when the driver is wired up correctly, so it doesn’t work on most Anduril lights. Only the FW3A driver has the right connections inside.

There are also other limitations…

  • Data transfer is 1-way only, so if it fails in the middle of a transfer there isn’t a way to retry the failed part.
  • Data transfer is slow — roughly 1 byte per second. So flashing the firmware would take hours.
  • The data buffer is small… only a few hundred bytes. So it can’t verify the transfer worked before flashing the firmware.
  • For safety reasons, it would need a special bootloader for optical flashing purposes. This doesn’t exist yet, and would reduce the available space for the rest of the firmware.

So it’s not very practical for firmware flashing purposes. It could still be used for sending config data, so the user would configure settings in a web app. However, I don’t want that to be mandatory, and the code needs to support a bunch of devices without optical sensors, so it would still need a way to configure things with button presses.

Long story short, it’s neat but very limited.

Unbelievably, I still don’t own an Emisar, and it is something i really need to fix.
TK is just thinking out loud right now, and I’m sure there will be an opportunity for suggestions before a simpler UI, or whatever, will be launched. I agree that it would be great if there was a way to get some of these great new lights into the hands of “muggles”. I would love to gift some, but certainly can’t unless they are simpler/safer. I think we would have to have on board charging, a simple on/off with ramping, no party modes, and a strict brightness limit to where the light wouldn’t overheat, and step down as necessary. It would have to be configured accurately this way, out of the box, and it would have to stay this way, regardless of errant button pushes. A lot of us wouldn’t like it, a lot people outside the forum would think it was fantastic. Making everyone happy is probably impossible.

Just a few random thoughts run through the blender…

To be honest/blunt, I’m not quite sure what’s the point of gifting or even encouraging The Muggle to buy an Überlight. Whether it’s dumbing it down, hobbling it, lobotomising it, affixing training-wheels to it, whatever, if someone can’t handle it, what’s the point?

It’s like gifting someone a Ferrari but installing a “teen mode” speed-governor to it.

The SC31 and even that 500lm Xiomi “lipstick” light were designed to suit that purpose, and at least the former was “improved” by making it brighter. :person_facepalming:

Advertising a light that can set small children on fire from 50’ away sounds tres kewl, but it is practical? Oh, it’s fun (well, except for the small children), but is it the best thing for The Muggle?

I got a DC7 which is very Q8ish, but for the most part only has ramping and a coupla shortcuts. Works fine for probably 95% of the population. Even if it had candle-mode and LOL mode and 0-0-0-destruct-0 mode and all these other fun options which you could only enable first by bapping the sideswitch with “iddqd” in Morse code, great. But that’s really only for The Enthusiast, no? The plumber who just wants to see what’s in the dark scary cellar probably doesn’t care about the blinkies.

Simplifying the UI, while making hurt-yourself modes harder to get to, great. But even defaulting to “special”-mode will absolutely result in returns and nasty reviews. Guaranteed.

Case in point. I recently got a food thermometer (B019W2CGM6). The “cap” which slides onto the probe can be stuck onto the opposite end to extend its “reach” into a hot oven. Some lackbrain 1-starred it and commented, “Uhh, that’s not 13in, more like 13mm!”. Wait, an exact quote is best…

This is 13MM NOT 13 INCH!! Only reason I bought this one was for the long reach. Returning. P!SSED

Retard.

This is what you’d be dealing with. When people return lights because they “don’t work”, and can’t be bothered to take out the protective disc on the end of the cell, even though it’s triple-wrapped in glow-tape saying so, wellp, that’s the result.

So… yeah, maybe simplify the most-used functions if need be, and make it harder to get into hurt-yourself modes, and that should be enough.

Come to think of it, how many, even BLF members, mistakenly believed they received 0 voltage brand-new. batteries?

In case it’s at all useful as a data point, “didn’t realize the batteries had stickers on the end” seems to be the #1 or #2 reason for returns of the Sofirn SP36. It’s really common for people to just try to turn it on, get no response, and assume it’s broken… not realizing that shipping regulations require the batteries to be physically blocked from making contact.

I hear it was also common for people to miss the “insert batteries from the front” card placed in the FW3A box.

There has been an increase of people like this buying BLF-related lights, so we should probably find ways to deal with that. And more generally, muggle mode has always kinda sucked, so it’s worth rewriting regardless.

I’d love for muggle mode to turn into a pocket friendly (accidental turns on don’t result in burnt pockets)/anduril lite mode.

My suggestions would be to keep the basics of a good UI, so hold from off for moonlight, triple click from off for battery check, double click from off to the top of the safe ramp, and single click from off to memory. The ramp can start from either moonlight or a higher level, but access to a moonlight mode by holding from off is a crucial feature that I think anyone can appreciate.

I’d propose that the memory be tied to the memory mode outside of muggle mode, so you could either preconfigure a set turn on level or go with the default of using whatever was the last level. From on, a single click for off and a double click for top of the ramp.

Outside of muggle mode, it might be nice to move most of the config options a few further clicks away.