670nm deep red led helps eyesight

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TheAuditor
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670nm deep red led helps eyesight

Bonum commune communitatis.

Yarp.

Kris822
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Nice find I use this for tendon improvement and training recovery
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33044154084.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5...

djozz
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sounds like the new Sofirn C01S with 660nm Cree led will fit the job.

jon_slider
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> Interesting. Where can I source one of these?

thanks for sharing this info about red light, I had not heard it before

Kris822 wrote:
I use this for tendon improvement and training recovery

what kind of benefits have you noticed?

I wonder if one of the reasons I place such a high priority on LEDs with High R9 CRI (red CRI), is because they help me see better?

djozz wrote:
sounds like the new Sofirn C01S with 660nm Cree led will fit the job.

thanks for pointing that Red LED AAA light out
now I have another reason (excuse), to spend some (small) money

does anyone have a link to buy the Red LED so I can experiment modding a light for myself?

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From link.

Quote:
The researchers recruited 24 people, aged between 28 and 72, who had no ocular disease to take part in their study

Very small sample of people? That’s not research that’s getting a few drinking pals together.

Quote:
The ability to detect colours improved by up to 20% in some people aged around 40 and over, the researchers said.

“by up to 20%” and “in some people” are not scientific statements.

I would NOT gamble my eye’s on that kind of “15” seconds of fame paper.

By the way the link goes to “the telegraph” and on the page that is linked to is another bit of clickbait, this time with quite a few more links to “the telegraph” articles.

Not saying that these articles are not interesting but they are by reporters citing other reporters articles to validate there claim’s.

Cheers David … who will keep his eyes away from anything like that.

Nothing to see here folks, move along...

jon_slider
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since I have no education, yet, regarding Red Light Benefits and Risks
I decided to ask google

There is a lot of info to explore, and some of it sounds promising..

.

Im a senior, and have several vision challenges due to age, and years of staring at computer screens, plus an active lifestyle outdoors, with high UV exposure, surfing and skiing.

If adding a Red LED to my accumulation of lights has any potential benefit, I am happy to learn more about the possibility.

So, Im glad this thread came up. Until now, I saw no reason to consider a Red LED light, but now I have a new modding opportunity.

First, I will practice my due dilligence, by taking the time to read up on the subject of Red Light Benefits and Risks.

here are some of the first references Im seeing:

===

my first question is

which Red LED should I buy to mod one of my flashlights? Love

thefreeman
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Better article from University College of London : https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/jun/declining-eyesight-improved-looking-...

Study : https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article-abstract/doi/10.1093/...

Closed access, but you know… there are ways (don’t know what is BLF policy on this sort of thing)

One curious thing :

Participants placed their eye over the end of the torch. Eyes could be closed as the red light is not filtered by the eye lid.

TheAuditor
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It is interesting isn’t it? I will have a look at the Sofirn flashlight and do a bit of research myself.

Bonum commune communitatis.

Yarp.

iamlucky13
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pommie wrote:
From link.
Quote:
The researchers recruited 24 people, aged between 28 and 72, who had no ocular disease to take part in their study
Very small sample of people? That’s not research that’s getting a few drinking pals together.

I think that’s excessively dismissive. 24 people limits the statistical sensitivity of the study severely, but that’s not unusual. A lot of research starts with small initial studies like this to see if there is any indication whether or not a hypothesis is worth funding more extensive research on. I suspect this specific study was inspired by some other research into deep red light exposure effects on mitochondrial activity elsewhere in the body.

However, this is only a cross sectional study that, although randomized, has no control group.

Everyone should note that this means the research is very preliminary. The FDA would never approve a listed treatment based on this minimal level of research, for example, and it would be illegal in the US to market deep red flashlights as a treatment for visual decline until it has been thoroughly vetted.

It remains to be seen if the effect can be consistently replicated, especially versus control groups (it probably won’t be possible to use a blinded case-control study, though). Before it could be approved as a prescribed treatment, it would have to demonstrate long-term efficacy and safety. We wouldn’t want to start everyone doing this as they age without testing, for example, whether there are side effects like a temporary improvement followed by accelerated decline (ie – do we make the candle burn twice as bright, but half as long?).

Personally, I’m puzzled by what would drive this affect that is unique. Sunlight, for example, even though it peaks at around 500 nm, still has a high relative intensity at 670nm (link to PSD graph, not adjusted for luminosity function). It seems odd to me that moderate intensity red in isolation would have a significantly greater effect than high intensity red as a component of direct sunlight or even incandescent light.

alpg88
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i have several deep red lights, it worth a try, thou i never seen 670nm deep red, cree and luxeon only make 660nm

the op article said longer wavelengths, there is 740nm aka far red led, i wonder if it’ll work better.

alpg88
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iamlucky13 wrote:

I think that’s excessively dismissive. 24 people limits the statistical sensitivity of the study severely, but that’s not unusual. A lot of research starts with small initial studies like this to see if there is any indication whether or not a hypothesis is worth funding more extensive research on. I suspect this specific study was inspired by some other research into deep red light exposure effects on mitochondrial activity elsewhere in the body.

However, this is only a cross sectional study that, although randomized, has no control group.

Everyone should note that this means the research is very preliminary. The FDA would never approve a listed treatment based on this minimal level of research, for example, and it would be illegal in the US to market deep red flashlights as a treatment for visual decline until it has been thoroughly vetted.

It remains to be seen if the effect can be consistently replicated, especially versus control groups (it probably won’t be possible to use a blinded case-control study, though). Before it could be approved as a prescribed treatment, it would have to demonstrate long-term efficacy and safety. We wouldn’t want to start everyone doing this as they age without testing, for example, whether there are side effects like a temporary improvement followed by accelerated decline (ie – do we make the candle burn twice as bright, but half as long?).

Personally, I’m puzzled by what would drive this affect that is unique. Sunlight, for example, even though it peaks at around 500 nm, still has a high relative intensity at 670nm (link to PSD graph, not adjusted for luminosity function). It seems odd to me that moderate intensity red in isolation would have a significantly greater effect than high intensity red as a component of direct sunlight or even incandescent light.

no?? google aspartame, and how it was approved.

Alen
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I bought some XP-E Red Led on the past.
They can be use on old Sk58/68 boost AA driver?

freeme
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What is the purpose of that white thing placed over the flashlight head?

Rat_Racer
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freeme wrote:

What is the purpose of that white thing placed over the flashlight head?

I suspect a spacer for consistency, so that everybody participating held the light the same distance from their eye for equal beam intensity.

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thefreeman wrote:

One curious thing :

Participants placed their eye over the end of the torch. Eyes could be closed as the red light is not filtered by the eye lid.

thanks for your post and for sharing info

I wonder if going outside, and with eyes closed letting the sun shine on my face and eyelids, would produce similar benefits as an LED..

I wonder how we can measure and compare Red light sources, so we know their relative power levels.

I dont know enough yet if One Sofirn AAA light with Red LED can have comparable benefits as one of those multi LED arrays.. when the goal is specifically to illuminate a small target.. even just One Eye at a time..

more info needed regarding exposure time also, relative to the number of LEDs.. and comparing that to using Sunlight as a source of red.. (IF that is even a viable option)

Suncoaster
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I noticed this too, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200629120241.htm
so naturally BLF was the first place I looked.

There is a previous BLF topic here : http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/861893#comment-861893

Who here is at UCL ?

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iamlucky13
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alpg88 wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Everyone should note that this means the research is very preliminary. The FDA would never approve a listed treatment based on this minimal level of research, for example, and it would be illegal in the US to market deep red flashlights as a treatment for visual decline until it has been thoroughly vetted.

no?? google aspartame, and how it was approved.

It’s not entirely comparable since it is a food additive instead of a medical treatment. Regardless, the initial approval involved, was as far as I know, a normal volume of research. However, due to problems in the initial research submittals used to grant it approval, which seem like deliberate corner cutting by the manufacturer, it went through years of followup review. I wouldn’t be surprised if, as a result, it’s one of the best studied food additives there is.

Are you suggesting that FDA approvals should take longer than the 2+ decades that aspartame ultimately went through between initial application and the end of all the challenges?

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jon_slider wrote:

does anyone have a link to buy the Red LED so I can experiment modding a light for myself?

I recently ordered a fairly priced custom 2x red + 2x deep red quad star @ HotRed Official Store, you may want to check this “deep red” search there.

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Barkuti wrote:
you may want to check this “deep red” search there.

thank you very much for helping to educate me about real world options to translate theory into practical action

maybe this LED I found thanks to your search, could be a basis for conversation and comparison
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32870122273.html?spm=2114.12010615.81483...

what I notice that seems useful (Im really new at LED shopping), is the 3535 footprint, the 16mm mcpcb, and the 3 volt category… since that fits with my limited knowledge of the traits of the sw45k I put into a Nitecore EX11.2.

Im considering that EX11.2 as a potential host for the Red Led.. a simple platform that Im familiar with, and can mod easily with preflowed LED board swap..

another light I am considering making Red capable is the AAA Coopper Tool for which I would do my own reflowing (which I learned how to do recently, and have been enjoying very much)

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jon_slider wrote:

what I notice that seems useful (Im really new at LED shopping), is the 3535 footprint, the 16mm mcpcb, and the 3 volt category... since that fits with my limited knowledge of the traits of the sw45k I put into a Nitecore EX11.2.

Im considering that EX11.2 as a potential host for the Red Led.. a simple platform that Im familiar with, and can mod easily with preflowed LED board swap..

Hey! The deep red emitters link you grabbed is a 100 piece sale. Innocent

HotRed sells a wide range of super cheap 0K quality copper MCPCBs, of which most of them are DTP (the 20mm 3535 XPE and the 20mm XML/5050 look non-DTP).

Here is their sale link for a single XP-E photo deep red 660nm: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32699141532.html (10 pcs pack here).

Since you can select bare led or led mounted on a cheap aluminum star, I am pretty sure they will gladly reflow your deep red emitter on a ∅16mm copper star (those are DTP, I have Wink them at home) if you send them a message after purchasing the emitter(s) and board(s).

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jon_slider
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Barkuti wrote:
Since you can select bare led or led mounted on a cheap aluminum star, I am pretty sure they will gladly reflow your deep red emitter on a ∅16mm copper star (those are DTP, I have Wink them at home) if you send them a message after purchasing the emitter(s) and board(s).

thanks, I did not need 100 of them.. LOL

Estimated Delivery on 09/24

I will think it over

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jon_slider wrote:
what I notice that seems useful (Im really new at LED shopping), is the 3535 footprint, the 16mm mcpcb, and the 3 volt category… since that fits with my limited knowledge of the traits of the sw45k I put into a Nitecore EX11.2.

Im considering that EX11.2 as a potential host for the Red Led.. a simple platform that Im familiar with, and can mod easily with preflowed LED board swap..

another light I am considering making Red capable is the AAA Coopper Tool for which I would do my own reflowing (which I learned how to do recently, and have been enjoying very much)

If you’re buying it presoldered on an MCPCB, the footprint does not matter directly. If you’re going to reflow it yourself, then you need to make sure that in addition to the size of the footprint, the solder pads having similar dimensions and polarity.

The most popular form factor matches the Cree XP series – 3535 with an electrically neutral thermal solder pad in the middle. In addition to the Cree XP-series, the Cree XHP35, the Nichia 219 series, the Samsung LH351 series, and the Luminus SST-20’s use that footprint.

Mountain Electronics has a 20mm MCPCB with a 660nm XP-E on it. They list a 16mm version as out-of-stock, unfortunately.

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_78

Cutter (in Australia) has the XP-E in 660nm photo red and 730nm far red, and can mount it on several different sizes of MCPCB’s. If I remember right, they do ship to the US, but I don’t know the cost.

https://www.cutter.com.au/product-category/led-emitter/cree-led/cree-xla...

I’m sure they can be had from Digikey or Mouser, too, but I don’t have time to dig up part numbers to search at the moment.

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I have both Emisar D18 and Emisar D4V2 with deep red SST-20-DR emitters. They are fun to use, and quite bright! Smile

For a small fee, Hank from intl-outdoor can build a flashlight for you with custom emitters. I emailed him and asked for SST-20-DR-B120-V660.

Note that the human eye is significantly less sensitive to deep red light, so if you get a flashlight with only 1 deep red LED it won’t be very bright.

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jon_slider wrote:

Estimated Delivery on 09/24

I will think it over

 

Selecting same shipping option for both items means shipping gets combined.

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lightdecay wrote:
I have both Emisar D18 and Emisar D4V2 with deep red SST-20-DR emitters. They are fun to use, and quite bright! Smile For a small fee, Hank from intl-outdoor can build a flashlight for you with custom emitters. I emailed him and asked for SST-20-DR-B120-V660. Note that the human eye is significantly less sensitive to deep red light, so if you get a flashlight with only 1 deep red LED it won't be very bright.

Now, that's some real good news! What driver did Hank use for the Emisar D4V2? I can't imagine that SST-20-DR will like high currents with FET. Did he use the 5A driver from KR4 or is the maximum current limited by software (Andúril)?

“Everyone, deep in their hearts, is waiting for the end of the world to come.” (Haruki Murakami, 1Q84)

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There is nothing different about it, it uses the standard D4V2 driver.

I don’t think Hank used limited FET firmware (typically used for Nichia 219) in mine. I assume he would have told me if he did, so that I would know to use the limited FET firmware when I flash a new version.

SST-20-DR is rated up to 3A, which is the same as SST-20 4000K. It seems to heat up less than my D4V2 with SST-20 4000K, so I assume it is not pulling too much current. Maybe it is more efficient? It does have a low Vf, so I wonder how much current it is actually pulling, and if it could be an issue.

https://download.luminus.com/datasheets/PDS-003040-Rev-04-SST-20-DR.pdf

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While I don't know the fine details of what you are discussing concerning that D4V2, I will just say that driving deep red emitters in parallel with an unregulated driver is just bollocks. Even a linear driver is inadequate, because the large voltage difference between input and emitters Vf needs to be dissipated at the regulators, being very inefficient and causing massive heat dissipation.

The right answer is a buck driver, or a boost driver with emitters in series (or boost-buck if 2S2P). Maybe its time to develop some Question new driver, because every time I look for buck drivers in the chinese market it either makes me want to cry or kick someone else's arse let's say I just don't like what I see. Innocent 

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I’ve seen the same press coverage regarding this. I’ve got eye issues and I support myself and my family doing graphic design and it’s a great worry as I get older. I want to look into this to support my eye function going forward.

There’s not much info about how to make a 670nm red light source, though you can buy them for upwards of 100 EUR. I’m certainly no technical whiz, but any tips gratefully received.

Thanks!

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Here’s where you can order a 670 nm LEDs, from Germany.
https://www.ebay.es/itm/3W-5W-670nm-POWER-LED-on-HEATSINK-K%C3%BChlk%C3%B6rper-Emitter-5mm/282856779018?var=582259449628

I think making a homemade flashlight maybe the simplest and most practical option if you are going to do this for eye treatment.

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Rasquera_tropical wrote:
Here's where you can order a 670 nm LEDs, from Germany.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3W-5W-670nm-POWER-LED-on-HEATSINK-K%C3%BChlk%C3%B6rper-Emitter-5mm/282856779018

Link edited and decrapified.

It's hard to extract any conclusions concerning how good such emitter is without any further information, i.e. manufacturer & model, datasheet and/or some real-world test(s).

The format of the emitter looks unenticing for flashlight usage.

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Hi,
We are already taking here about 10W LEDs like SST-20-DR. Does anyone know what power is actually needed? Maybe couple 5mm LEDs is enough?

Red and IR LEDs are already used in all kinds of therapy. See sample description here.
I have seen a device for that myself. Have a fried who used it to help healing a wound (not very deep but large scratch after falling from a mountain bike) and he says it helped, don’t know about that (he is a doctor)
This thing was using an IR laser diode with some optics on it to make wider beam plus some additional red and IR diodes (hard to tell what they were because of some cloudy convex lenses on them).
It was using them at relatively high power I guess and PWM to adjust average power by changing duty cycle, it could also change frequency from few to few hundred Hz – no idea what the purpose of that.
I guess because it was designed to also help with muscle stimulation it has to reach deep, so high power, but not to burn skin so PWM to keep average low.
It was old device and laser diode could be needed to get required power, maybe current IR LEDs are good enough.

With eyes I would think you don’t need much power to get where needed but I didn’t see in any of these articles anything about power they used. Did I miss it? Anybody knows?

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