[Interest Check] Sofirn C01S with Nichia E21A 98CRI R9050/9080

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Lux-Perpetua
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[Interest Check] Sofirn C01S with Nichia E21A 98CRI R9050/9080

Hello everyone,

I talked to Barry (Sofirn) about the idea of selling their popular C01S model with Nichia's E21A emitter (2.000K - 5.000K 98CRI). This LED arouses quite some interest here on BLF and TLF, so I thought "let's give it a try" and have another special BLF edition. Some first investigation on his side revealed that they would be able to get this LED albeit to a higher price and longer lead time than usual LEDs like the ones from Cree or Luminus. I would like to welcome everyone to chime in and help me to gather all information what we need to take care of (driver specs, optics, most wanted tints, flux and chromatic bins, etc.).

I think it's best to start discussing viable options first before collecting the actual interest/demand in this light.

 

My initial ideas:

  • Host will be C01S or C01 (although C01 may not fit for using 5mm LEDs)
  • Body color irrelevant for now (black should work well but maybe bare aluminum would be highly appreciated)
  • Driver-wise Sofirn's C01R driver might be a good option for using low-voltage LEDs but I don't know how sensitive E21A is - maybe C01S's driver would push E21A too hard?
  • Optic: C01S or C01 optic or mule design with glass lens
  • UI: The new 3-mode & 2-modegroup UI of C01R
  • Tints: I could imagine two or three tint options (2.000K "incandescant light", 3.500K and 5.000K) but I am open for any other ideas

 

Following tints have come into close consideration  

2.000K
NVSLE21AT SM203-D160-L2-R9050

3.500K

NVSLE21AT SM353-D220-M1-R9080

4.500K

NVSLE21AT SM453-D220-L2-R9080

 

The poll to assess the requested tints can be found here:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/73660

 

Disclaimer:

Since this plan may eventually lead into an actual sales/groupbuy thread, I have decided to put this in the commercial sellers / BLF user negotiated deals subforum.

 

Interest list:

BLF member Total Quantity 2.000K 3.500K 4.500K Else CCT
Lux-Perpetua 4 2   2  
oweban 3 1 1 1  
MAX-MX 2  1 1    
lightdecay 2 1   1  
TMaxxJJ 3 1 1 1  
lazerEagle 1        
id30209 2   1  1  
hodor 4 1 1 1 1
Agro 1        
Unheard 3 1 1 1  
Muto 3        
mbp 2   1 1  
Tater Tot 3  1   2  
skinny_tie 1        
mitsuki08 2  1 1    
derfyled 1        
staticx57 4  1  1 1 1
jonxxn 1        
Geoduck 3 2 1    
Grigio 3 1 1 1  
BurningPlayd0h 2 1   1  
flightless22 6 2  2 2  
OtisCampbell 2        
Rat_Racer 1        
2Ace 1        
sochi111 1        
Th558 1     1  
virencelights 1        
cetary 1 1      
asdqqq 1     1  
Geuzzz 1 1      
SilverHazeFlash 1     1  
anonymous_user 1     1  
nastynate 1 1      
Phlogiston 1     1  
Unloco 1        
matik42 3 2   1  
adam7027 3 1 1 1  
dk21291 6 2 2 1 1
timbo114 1     1  
SammysHP 1        
Anthony Nguyenn 1     1  
Alen 1 1      
808Hi 1        
jojosupir 1   1    
Noctiluco 1   1    
alex64 1        
Sari33 1 1      
rost333 1        
shirnask 4 1 3    
Poguche 1   1    
korpzgrinda 1 1      
ch1ir 1        
Light-saber 1     1  
OldSkol 1     1  
Tally-ho 4 1 1 1 1
ludolf 3 1 1 1  
GDF 1        
puglife2 1   1    
Funzel67 3 1 1 1  
Nooner 1 1      
gregor 1      1  
Discharger 4 3    1  
lotrbfme 3 1 1 1  
Nagonka 2     2  
Bastarrdo 1        
wapd2 1        
rhemz 1 1      
b4d17 1        
DrDevil 1 1      
KalmJ 3 1 1 1  
bigm 6  2 2 2  
GERFlash 4        
Drift Monkey 2 1   1  
TimMc 2   1 1  
richnpc 1     1  
Helios azimuth 3 1  1 1  
LightintheNight (TLF) 1        
lightboks (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
Flaschenlampe (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
Kosta(s) (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
Kabukimann (TLF) 1   1    
bidas 1     1  
Slim Pickens 4 1 2 1  
Coscar 1   1    
Midnite 1   1    
WES-7 1     1  
TheTechnical 1     1  
slmjim 1 1      
Quillz 3 1  1 1  
MoreLumens 2 1 1    
Toglud 3 1  1 1  
Tendou 1   1    
gixxxer  3 1 1 1  
d_t_a  3 1 1  1  
harry218 1   1    
drewski 2   1 1  
nibble 1 1      
light-emitting-... 1 1      
Di_Joker 1 1      
netprince 3 1 1 1  
Sean Ingram 3 1 1 1  
nobody 4 1 2 1  
khaleeqnizamani 2 2      
Forever 3 1 1 1  
Talkrabb 1     1  
snoopstah 1 1      
Starkm32 3  1 1  1  
Gunga 2  1  1    
Dachfalter (TLF) 2 1   1  
Liquidity (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
the_holodoc 1     1  
           

Total amount

(as of 08/06/2020)

223 60 49 59 4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by: Lux-Perpetua on 08/06/2020 - 05:07
oweban
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If the 5000K option were 4500K I’d be all over all three…

MAX-MX
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I will observe with interest, I hope the project will be implemented. With pleasure I would buy at 3500K.

lightdecay
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Interested.

TMaxxJJ
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Definitely interested. Probably in one of each tint.

Agro
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I would be interested but only if the driver supported 10440.

lazerEagle
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interested

- the best way to predict the future is to create it -

MascaratumB
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Subscribed to check the developments Wink
Thanks for the initiative Thumbs Up

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Lux-Perpetua
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Agro wrote:
I would be interested but only if the driver supported 10440.

If we all agree on 10440 this would mean to develop a whole new boost driver, consequently an even higher sales price to cover development costs. Moreover, I'm worried that multichemistry support (1.2/1.5V and 3.7V) will be quite a challenge with such a small driver. Are there any big advantages to expect when driven with a lithium-ion battery? 10440s are much more difficult to source as well as quite expensive. Charging these little suckers in a standard li-ion charger can also become a challenge.

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Big IN

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

hodor
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Definitely interested if 3 (or 4) mode with sub-lumen and decent mode spacing. Only really interested in NiMH, not bothered if it supports 10440. I’m ok with the suggested tints, however I wonder how popular the 2000K option would be (is 2700K more popular?). If the options were 3500K, 4500K, 5700K I would probably buy one of each.

In case they’re thinking of different hosts, I’d be very interested if they made a small twisty AA, seems to be a big gap in the market (unless I’m missing something).

Edit: IIRC the max safe amps for E17A is 1A and E21A is 2A (although I could be wrong, will find the post)

Edit2: found it H04RC group buy

Jerommel wrote:
…The E21 has an XP-G / 219C size die, and the E17 has half the mm² surface area die of the E21, so E17 is comparable with XP-E die size.

The E21 can safely handle max. 2 Amperes and the E17 can safely handle max. 1 Ampere.

So a quad of E21 can handle 8 Amperes and a quad of E17 can handle 4 Amperes. …

Agro
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Agro wrote:
I would be interested but only if the driver supported 10440.

If we all agree on 10440 this would mean to develop a whole new boost driver, consequently an even higher sales price to cover development costs. Moreover, I’m worried that multichemistry support (1.2/1.5V and 3.7V) will be quite a challenge with such a small driver. Are there any big advantages to expect when driven with a lithium-ion battery? 10440s are much more difficult to source as well as quite expensive. Charging these little suckers in a standard li-ion charger can also become a challenge.


Nearly every AAA driver can work with 10440, this is not a challenge but often an unintended feature.
Even the regular C01S one…sometimes: some users reported that it worked, some burnt theirs.
I suppose it needs some minor tweaks, that’s all required to turn this light from nice but dim to a small hotrod.
Thermal design is fine and IMHO it’s a shame that such omission limited the light’s performance so much. Sad

Dim lights are not my kind of stuff, regardless of how good the beam is, that’s why I requested this feature.

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Nice but dim is my type LOL

Lux-Perpetua
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Agro wrote:
[Nearly every AAA driver can work with 10440, this is not a challenge but often an unintended feature. Even the regular C01S one...sometimes: some users reported that it worked, some burnt theirs. I suppose it needs some minor tweaks, that's all required to turn this light from nice but dim to a small hotrod. Thermal design is fine and IMHO it's a shame that such omission limited the light's performance so much. :(

Okay, if it's that easy what tweaks are we talking about here? How can a manufacturer make sure that the E21A emitter will not get toasted if someone puts in a brandnew Efest 10440? IIRC, the reason why some C01S did not burn was because they used some low drain and/or partly discharged 10440s. Please don't feel offended by my questions but it would be a complete nightmare for a manufacturer to face returns of defective lights in large scale.

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oweban wrote:
If the 5000K option were 4500K I’d be all over all three…

5000K E21A D240 will have a green tint, 4500K E21A d220 will have a nice rosy tint. Choose wisely.

virence.com Nichia E21A sw30+sw40 Wizard Pro ; Skilhunt H03 XP-E2 660nm Photo Red ; Wizard Pro E21A 2000K ; S2+ E21A sw40 d220 (for sale)

 

oweban
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As in, if there were 1800K, 3500K, and 4500K I’d want those three Smile

Unheard
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I’m in of course. Guess the LED works fine with that driver. 1800K would be very nice, but also too special for mass market. And we know Sofirn has problems sourcing Nichias. More likely they would consider NW tints.

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Down for 3, prefer bare aluminum or olive

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Agro
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Agro wrote:
[Nearly every AAA driver can work with 10440, this is not a challenge but often an unintended feature. Even the regular C01S one…sometimes: some users reported that it worked, some burnt theirs. I suppose it needs some minor tweaks, that’s all required to turn this light from nice but dim to a small hotrod. Thermal design is fine and IMHO it’s a shame that such omission limited the light’s performance so much. Sad

Okay, if it’s that easy what tweaks are we talking about here?


I don’t know. That’s why I wrote this as a supposition rather than a statement of a fact.
Lux-Perpetua wrote:
How can a manufacturer make sure that the E21A emitter will not get toasted if someone puts in a brandnew Efest 10440? IIRC, the reason why some C01S did not burn was because they used some low drain and/or partly discharged 10440s. Please don’t feel offended by my questions but it would be a complete nightmare for a manufacturer to face returns of defective lights in large scale.

If a LED burns you have a dead light.
If a driver burns you have a dead light.

I don’t see how improving the driver would make the matter any worse, let alone turn it into nightmare.

Now to the also important question, can E21A survive a fully charged, high drain cell? I’m not sure but quick calculations show me that it can’t. Which is a bummer indeed.
I guess few people will care about 10440 support then. Though I still do; even if I kill E21A, a good driver enables me to put some other LED in there. Like SST-20. And I would still have as bright as I’d like.

BTW, there’s one thing to take into consideration when converting a light from SST-20 to E21A. The latter is very flat and may easily have the light emitting surface well below the focal point of the optics.

mbp
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Would definitely be in for at least one, probably two 3500k and 4500k.

samyy
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I like the C01S concept, but Im not a fan of the AAAs. So here is my idea: install the C01S driver (maybe with slight improvements) in the bigger body and make the “C10S” – twisty AA light, as small as possible, something in style of DQG Tiny AA or L3 L10…No need of 14500 support, AAs with their higher capacity(comparing with AAAs) would be good enough…

Tater Tot
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Interested.

3500k and 4500k would be nice.

The tint should be at or below the BBL, ideally without too much tint shift even with optics.

3-mode UI is good and I personally don’t care for 10440 support.

skinny_tie
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I’m definitely interested in the lower temperatures, but not the 5000K – if the highest temperature was around 4000K I would probably get that too.

I’m happy with the C01R UI and NiMH support. I’m not interested in 10440 Li-ion support – I wouldn’t mind if it was an option but I wouldn’t want it to compromise NiMH support.

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samyy wrote:
…twisty AA light, as small as possible, something in style of DQG Tiny AA or L3 L10…

L3 L10 size and style would be perfect Love

mitsuki08
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Interested. preferably 4500k below.

derfyled
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Interested in a 3500-4500k

staticx57
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interested

jonxxn
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Definitely interested

Geoduck
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interested in at least two at 2700-3500k

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Also interested in one of each tint.
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Interested if available in 4500K D220 and/or 3000K or below, would definitely pick up both. Don’t care about 10440 support, especially if the driver doesn’t have any stepdowns like the C01S.

A bit more textured/floodier optic vs the C01S is absolutely necessary though. E21A has tint shift through the beam in narrow, untextured TIRs.

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