Wow, great sharing of your experiences with lost shipments, thanks!! Since i've contacted Flashlights USA several times asking for solutions or suggestions and they didnt come up with any other than "please wait up to 2.0 months however we're not responsible for lost shipments", i will feel forced to go the Paypal route in a few days only to have some kind of security in my back. I know that ebay sellers, HKE, Dinodirect and other HK/CN sellers always come up with generous solutions when you report about missing shipments and they accept the fact that not with all business transactions they earn a profit, even if one didnt pay for insurance or tracking; now dealing with this U.S. dealer is a new experience and they seem to adhere to the standard protocol: no insurance paid, no replacement for the lost shipment.
The USPS shipment number ends its tracking at the U.S. airport, as expected. From there no further tracking is possible.
Man, I don't want to sound unsympathetic, so let me make sure I've got this straight:
1. You placed an order for materials from overseas.
2. You had the option to insure the shipment, but chose instead to save $5.
3. The item (or items) never showed up and now the expectation is that the seller or Paypal should pony up the money for the lost shipment even when it is admitted that there is no way to prove that the shipment did not reach you.
I can understand the frustration, but were it me (and it has been a couple of times over the years with other non-flashlight related items), I simply move on, lesson learned. YOU opted to not take insurance. YOU knew the purpose of insurance. YOU took the risk. IMO, never expect someone else to pay for a mistake you made. I drill that into my kids' heads on almost a daily basis it seems.
I have had a lot orders with Go_Market. A couple months ago, one of the orders didn't show up. I contacted him and was advised to wait another week. The week went by, I contacted Go_Market that the item didn't arrive and he quickly issued a refund. HOWEVER, two weeks later the item shows up!!
I contacted Go_Market and informed that indeed the item did show up. He thanked me, and gave me instructions on how to return my REFUND. I returned the REFUND.
Just to show you how good deeds follow good deeds. Later on, one of my torches from Go_Market stopped working. This is over two months of having this torch too. After informing Go_Market of the problem, he quickly issued me a REFUND for that torch. No sending back, just gave me a refund.
Through the length of my years (72), I have learned that good turns always come back to you!!
Yeah kreisl, I think PP won't side with you on this one.
But I wonder why you worry so much. 2 months+ shipment is quite normal for international. And you know it was really shipped since you had a USPS#, and I don't think Fenix would send coins.
you got this straight, and maybe Flashlights USA is even reading this thread and siding with you. i could argue that the SENDER is responsible for ensuring (i.e. insuring) that the shipment reaches me safely and that HE should "take care" of it by covering the full expenses for the tracking number. in fact, dealers such as EXDUCT dont ship stuff but with Registered Mail. but my real opinion regarding the insurance topic is: the insurance costs should be SHARED 50-50 between sender and recipient. When a dealer offers shared shipping costs plus shared insurance costs, then i am willing to accept the offer; this is fair, and then i wouldnt even look for other cheaper sites (MF, DX, DD, ..). Any U.S. dealer (or German dealer) could easily win me over from MF/DX/DD by offering shared shipping costs.
On Ebay, or with DX/DD/MF/etc., it has become common business practice that the buyer is protected and if a shipment gets lost, the seller would issue a refund or resend a replacement copy for FREE. It's somehow natural part of their online business, they need to keep up their high reputation, they want to keep the waiting customer happy and make them returning customers and make them spread the good word, and they cant afford burning assets (a current customer and a potential customer are assets).
Let's assume that your point of view is the same as Flashlights USA's point of view. Then fine, i can see why you think that way. I understand your opinion. Yet i dont share your opinion, mine is opposite and quite primitive: i will never accept the idea that i had to pay for stuff which i never received. So there we'd have it: 2 opposite opinions, no friendly suggestions or gestures, no agreement. That's the definition of a classical dispute i would say.
I will wait a few more days .. and then ask PP for help. And apart from the actual ending of the story (which begins now and will end at the latest after 3 weeks after the closure of the PP claim, if needed), this is the beginning of bad experience and bad publicity with Flashlights USA, and boardies who agree with my point of view will be less likely to place orders with them..
If i lose this case (i.e. no received merchandise for the money paid), then my lesson learned will be: Never again placing orders with them. And to my buddies i will tell that ..etc..
Trying to understand the point here. I get a lot of items online and have to be shipped. I also get a lot items from overseas shippers too, I NEVER take out insurance..
Some items don't even cost $5.00
You mean to tell me that on EVERY order you do, or let me just say on EVERY overseas order you take out insurance???
Actually PayPal/eBay have some kind of seller protection which I believe is a sort of insurance paid for by the normal PayPal/eBay fees during purchase.
The vast majority of orders I place I do so within the USA. Most ship via UPS or FedEX and are insured up to a certain dollar amount. They also come with a tracking number so that I can keep track of those packages. If I place an order, I absolutely believe that it is incumbent upon ME to make sure that I'M protecting my interests. I insure stuff frequently when purchasing via ebay simply because those items are often sent via USPS and the sellers often offer the insurance as an option. Insuring is obviously dependent upon the investment. I have an old van that I don't insure for physical damage at all because it's 12 years old with almost 200,000 miles on it. I also have a later model pick-up that actually has some value. It's worth replacing. That's the point of insuring. Can I afford to replace it? Do I desire to? Am I willing to eat the cost of an *accident* without complaining in the event that something goes wrong? That's how I decide--regardless of where an order originates.
In this case, a guy takes a risk by making a purchase where INSURANCE WAS OFFERED for only $5. He DECLINED. Now he wants the seller to eat the cost of a problem they didn't create. If the buyer declines insurance, then presumably it's because he can afford to lose the money in the event that something goes wrong.
I'm just no sure what is so difficult about the concept of taking responsibility for one's self. Insurance was offered. Insurance was decline. Case closed in my book.
If the seller decides to do something extra to create a sense of goodwill for a customer, then kudos to them. But there should be absolutely no expectation that they are responsible to fix a problem that didn't need to exist save the failure of a buyer to take them up on the $5 insurance to ship overseas.
Well, those "lost" packages can be returned to seller. i.e. bad written address. For example: It ends in Alabama instead of Atlanta, so when it arrives there, it will be returned because that address is wrong and doesn't exist in Alabama. Finally seller receive the package back and keeps the money. Man, I like this sort of "business" :|
Seller should know that shipping overseas could be "problematic" and must insist on registered shipping just to avoid this cases.
Not sure that forcing someone who DOESN'T want insurance is the better way. Fact is they offered insurance and the buyer intentionally and knowingly refused it. He gambled…he lost.
IMO, this fits right in with the advice, "Don't put scalding hot coffee between your legs as you drive away from the window at McDonald's" Sure, Most of the time nothing is going to happen so complacency sets in. But when something DOES happen, boy do we get burned. Then we blame McDonald's for selling *HOT* coffee.
Yes, kudos to all those (many) sellers in the East (incl ebay sellers) who do eat the costs!! If this thread helps to identify and pinpoint other sellers who are not willing to offer this kind of “extra”, then be it. My book closes in 3 weeks, and till then i am sure that people are interested in learning how this story ended and that my experience will influence their future choice of dealers.
The side question is if the dealer can afford to burn ALL (till then happy) customers who ran into the same problem of lost shipments. Maybe a few who learned the lesson will say 'thanks dear dealer for teaching me the lesson, i'll be happy to return as customer' but more (potential) customers who learned about my lesson (=experience with them) will say 'hmm good to know in advance how they handle things, lemme shop elsewhere with more confidence thanks kreisl for sharing'.
Order date was 2012-04-16. Day42 sounds good to me, thanks guys for siding with the weaker (which is always the budgeteer ;) )
Yeah, but this way they ensure that they will not refund for lost package. I.e.: you are selling something, buyer didn't received it and want a refund. Same stuff weeks later. Then you think: "I can't lose any more. Will insist on reg. ship.". Yes, you will lose those clients who don't want to pay reg.ship. but you'll ensure that you will not lose any more $$$. It's not sellers fault, but buyers neither. It's postal service, transport or whatever fault.
It's OK for expensive stuff. Of course a no-way for $4 item :bigsmile:
After 60 days total PP got your money back? With DD, as it is known, there is no need to walk along the PP route. The shopper doesnt have to fear loss; they work hard to satisfy you and are generous with replacement shipments or refunds – you only have to wait the 60 days and then contact them, for example thru the chat channel. I dont know of any customer case where DD made the customer eat the costs. I almost ordered something from them today, a cannongrey Tank E09 V2.
The aspect of gambling nullifies itself when large sellers with FREE global shipping expect a certain percentage of lost shipment claims (e.g. 0.5%) and accept to cover for the loss without questions asked.
HKE once told me that flashlights selling business is such that not with each and every sales transaction can the dealer (HKE) make a profit. As soon as the buyer returns the torch (repair/warranty/..) or reports a missing shipment, all earned profits are eaten or even actual financial loss is generated. HKE states that this happens, it's the nature of the flashlight business, and is sad .. but frank customer satisfaction be of higher priority. Yeah, kudos to them.
I certainly regret, stingy as i am, not having ordered with them .. their price would have been 5$ higher than the U.S. dealer.
I ordered a large number of parts from CNQG a couple or 3 months ago. I placed the order after my dry was stuck at us customs for a month. At the time unregistered mail was shipping quicker so I figured I'd split my parts order into 2 shipments via unregistered mail instead of just one in case one got lost. As my luck would have it NEITHER ever showed up after 6 weeks.
I contacted Ric and he resent both orders in one registered package and it arrived safely yesterday. Now THAT'S great customer service!!!
Who knows, maybe the others will show up in another month or two but I doubt it.
Normally, all my stuff got to me eventually. Except two times of "supposedly" lost package. And these two just happens to be a "promised" replacement from two ebay seller for wrong/defective parts I received.
Hmmm... what a coincidence...
So in ebay, if you can, don't accept any "resend", just ask for refund/partial :)
I have given the CS chat a try. The Otta_ clone I spoke with appeared to be from the shallow end of the gene pool and didn't get (or pretended not to get) the problem despite me sending pics and describing the issue in simple terms several times (note: this was not the lost order case, but another issue I had with one of my other orders).
Regarding the lost order I opened a ticket through their support system. The response to my ticket was that I should wait. I told them that as a precaution I will open a dispute with Paypal before 45 days and I informed them a couple of days before I had to escalate the dispute to a claim that I had not received the order and I would like a refund. After that I received a refund.
The fact that I was given the runaround by the CS chat and having had issues with all my orders from DD I opened the dispute since I didn't trust DD. After that I have not ordered anything from DD and I'm not going to order again from DD.
