Lost shipment!! -- How was your case handled? :)

The way I see insurance is like this. Ten people pay it and one package gets lost then the seller can send another package without loss. If you don't take insurance you accept the risk. It is like gambling. For expensive items I will take it if available. There are some dishonest people working for the postal service. Hopefully the light will turn up and its just delayed somewhere.

To pay extra insurance is supporting theft since nobody will do anything about it.

Lennart

good discussion. i think most people here wouldnt agree with IndyArcher. another take is, neither the sender nor the recipient should be blamed or held responsible for loss or theft. the only to blame is the carrier imho who f***ed up what was their job in the first place: you pay for shipping and it is not asked too much from the carrier that, with this money, the carrier actually does its job and ensures the delivery of the consignment to the front door of the addressee. there should be no need or option for insurance if the carrier only did its job properly! and the carrier's insurance company should cover cases of theft/loss/broken items fully (and yes, this would support theft).

Saturday, another morning has passed, no mailman, no USPS envelope, .. Boaz is right, waiting is the hardest part.

I have sent over 150 parcels via Australia post. One went missing. I was told bad luck I should have sent it registered post. Although the buyer chose not to pay extra for registered post ( $3 for up to $100 cover) I replaced the items at my cost. I do however choose registered post more often now. Speaking about postal thieves. My friend sent a $1000 gold bracelet in the mail with appropriate insurance. An empty box was delivered. So someone had carefully opened the parcel, taken the bracelet out and wrapped it back up. Very disappointing all round.

Ok, firstly let me say that I sympathise - and empathise - with The kreis. How can I not do? All the more so since this is a classic example of 'The Little Guy' vs the Greedy Multi-national Corporation . Kreisler, I've done the same thing myself - I'm sure we all have - and I hope you get a result out of this. Would you have had to sign for this package? If so, at least you have proof that you didn't receive it, which might help with Paypal.

That said, I have to be honest and admit that I also can see both sides here. Let's face it, ordering online always contains an element of risk, and whilst it might be understandable to want the seller to carry 100% of responsibility, it isn't necessarily practical to expect it. The sad fact is that stuff does sometimes go missing and the point that I think some people might be missing is that the seller doesn't do the delivering themselves. Here in the UK we're kind of resigned to this as it's sadly common for items to go missing in transit across town, never mind across the globe.

There are so many other pairs of hands, and so many ways for an item to go awol once a package has been sent and is into the shipping system, and as others have said, there is a limit to just how much a seller can do to ensure a package arrives. Yes, they could swallow every loss, but then their prices would go up. This way they're offering the customer a choice as to whether to pay a bit more for peace of mind. I actually think that, for all that we moan when things go wrong, Chinese sellers have spoiled us. We get low prices, free shipping (usually) and - most surprising of all - if we say that something hasn't arrived, more often than not we get a replacement or a full refund, and they take our word for it! This is astonishing when you stop to think about it, and I worry how they do it. I mean how low must their expenses (workers' wages!) be? I may be wrong, but I'd bet that Fenix USA have to pay a much higher minimum wage..

Of course we shouldn't have to pay insurance for shipping. As Lennart says, there is an element of encouraging crime about it, and apart from that, shipping insurance means we're basically paying twice for the same service. It's exactly like the 'extended warranty' scam; why should I have to pay extra money (quite a lot here in the UK) to ensure that I get a reasonable working life out of a product that I've already paid for? Extended warranty payments could be said to be encouraging built in product failure rates; as long as customers are aware of these breakdown risks and are prepared to pay to avoid the cost of repairing something that shouldn't have gone 'pffft!' in the first place, manufacturers (and retailers) have no incentive to improve QC or PWL (Product Working Life).

Bottom line is that *@%# happens, and sooner or later it's going to land on each of us to one extent or another. The simple question we have to ask ourselves is "Do I feel lucky?" If 'yes', I can save a few bucks by taking a chance. If not, I'll pay a bit more for peace of mind. I have never paid shipping insuarance, but then I've never had to swallow the cost of a lost item. Had this ever happened to me, or if I was ordering an expensive enough item I might pay the extra. Good luck, kreisler, hope you get your flashlight ;)

beautiful reasonable post, thanks so much. i certainly felt lucky so far and i am very grateful for the many savings and advantages i got from generous dealers such as HKE and DD; maybe they never earned much profit by dealing with me, nonetheless i am welcome there as happy satisfied returning customer which i really am. you see me recommending them all the time. that's the best "earning profit" out of a customer in the long run, isnt it?

this case would be the first real setback in my flashlight budgeteer's career if PP cant bail me out at the end of the PP claim. If Flashlights USA burns a blatant customer like me, .. does no good to them ;)

'paying extra for something which we had already paid for' .. i luv that reasoning and i totally agree

!!

Ha, ya knew you wasn't in that bunch!! Cool

Ha, that is an understatement! Laughing

I agree, the sender or the recipient should not be blamed. However, and I mean a big However too, the next move is up to the SENDER. IMO, and I am sure the opinion of the majority here and most sellers everywhere, if a recipient did NOT get the package, the seller makes it right.

Now, I always get tracking, that is the one of the tools the seller can used to see what happened. Because if it comes up "delivered", then the seller can request an explanation of what happened, and IMO, on a delivered item, that takes the seller off the hook.

I have had a package that the tracking marked "delivered" but I didn't get it, and the seller made it right. They sent me another item.

But, to tell a buyer that didn't get their package "tough chit" because you didn't get insurance, or for every buyer to get insurance, IMO, and I might be wrong, but is WAY off base.

Also, I realized that everybody's opinon is valid.. However, through the length of my years, I do know that everybody opinion can't be correct. Sometimes they are just plain wrong..

Again, good discussion here too.. Wink

I have signed for $2 items from China.

They might have used "Return receipt CN07" (think thats what it´s called in English). "Avis de rèception denvoi" in postal lingo.

Lennart

Exactly!!

He has got my money - I want the goods!!! Its bullshit to put the blame on me

if they dont show up in my mailbox

Ok, i've opened a paypal dispute on Day44 (today!):

As some members stated, we little consumers shouldnt be made pay twice for basically the same service: delivery of the goods we already paid for ("prepaid" thru paypal or credit card). imho the main responsible for the malheur is the carrier (who failed to do his job!), the next to blame imho is the sender (it's his goods and his business and his reputation so he should make sure (ensure/insure) that all parties are covered). well, IndyArcher wouldnt agree with my imho and maybe some bada$$ dealer wouldnt agree either with my view, so there we have it. A dispute. May PP come to the rescue.

Hey kreisl, you sure you didn't use your HK address by mistake? You know, Santa Monica Blvd #22395?

Santa Monica Blvd is in L.A. afaik not HK. i do live in Gemany, you can ask summer :p ( you'd have to trust her word. hehe. he. )

phew, they finally agreed to ship it today (not before confirming my address again). So I guess I can add them to the "good guys" that care for the customer even after PayPal's dispute deadline.

Let's hope this time it arrives...

Yes Kreisler, we get someone else"s SS check (we take it to there house) once or twice a year. Get Neighbor"s packages,they will get our"s (accidentally).

Keith

Hi, news from today: i've received the package finally, after almost 2.0 months!! Obvious reason for the late delivery, the USPS address label sticker did not show the full address because parts of the address (ZIP code, ..) were truncated by the label printer machine. i dont know WHO printed the USPS address label sticker (Flashlights USA?, USPS?, moron?, printer?,..), in any case the package was mal-addressed and the address had to be corrected/completed by ingenious German post officers ("to re-address").

happy with the fact that the waiting has ended, huge relief, i am not satisfied with the product itself; the shipped sample could be much better ( i know it because i own the product already hah!! ). instead of following the PP route even longer/more i decided to close the PP dispute AND contact the company (CS + CEO) to ask for an offer of amends. the point is, if some great recommended seller like HKE sends me flawless specimen i will not complain ever but accept the higher HKE prices. so when some other dealer (Flashlights USA, 1st time shopping experience) sends me a specimen which my otherwise preferred dealer (HKE!) would not have dared to send me without a clear warning, then i cant accept the shipped quality (poor QC by Flashlights USA!).

I certainly regret 2 things regarding this order:

1. i should have placed the order with HKE in the 1st place, as always! trying to save a few bucks (by ordering from Flashlights USA) ends now in more trouble.

2. i should not have ordered the product at all. it was a rash purchase decision, and i am not interested in the product anymore.. also because i own it already.

Great reviewer as i am (with trusted recommendations and helpful details in my reviews), HKE is a great seller (with trusted warnings and honest assessment of stocked samples) as well. kreisler, HKE, Flashlights USA?? --- great, great, not too great. ( i can blow my own horn cant i? ;) )

So my advice to you guys is:

Dont buy a flashlight which you dont really want to buy!


On a side note, different product: Just to give you an example how clear HKE checks samples in stock and communicates with full expertise and wise reasoning:

From this email the reader can conclude that both samples are not fully satisfactory to the critical eye (like bada$$ me!), and one feels warned.

From my current experience with manafont, I learned to never trust any chinese company again. I didnt open a claim because MF has always been reliable and helpful, but my order from 17/03/2012 still didnt show up. And they started answering my emails very slowly as soon as I asked for a refund (before: <24h, now: >48h).

So next time, instant claim.

Similar stuff happened to one of my friends. Package was ensured, $200. Was opened and then wrapped again. Those fucked thieves always take that into account. Man, I’m almost 100% sure, that if that person instead of declaring that, had written “$hit inside. Insurance: .01c” nobody would open that package.

FINAL NEWS. Because of my whining in the email report the company didnt hesitate a bit to issue to full refund for the late receipt of the product. I received the product AND i get issued a full refund wtf? Incredibly generous service to make amends and that turns my shopping experience into a very good one. They succeeded: Of course i am very pleased now and satisfied with the final outcome of the whole story.

Just wanted to share this with you. God bless Flashlights USA, God bless America.

Now that is good CS! Bravo to flashlights USA!