Review: APEX 5T6 (5 x Cree XM-L T6 | 4 x 18650)

Yes, PWM frequency is part of the EPROM program.

Since PWM is just rapid ON-OFF-ON-OFF cycles, it appears to my Fluke as an AC square wave. My Fluke 179 measures AC Hz so I just set it to measure tailcap current, but hit the button to read Hz. Its a ball-park estimate I think until someone hooks theirs up to a scope to really get an accurate reading. But it is visibly low though…. bummers.

Excellent review =the=, and thanks for the detailed photos of your dis-assembly!

Great to see the individual reflectors and fairly accessible driver board. If CN Quality Goods don’t release any optional accessories for these (e.g. narrower long-throw reflectors, or different driver boards) then I’m sure someone will come up with some mods soon.

The reflectors look “p60 sized” … could one find different reflectors or even collimator optics and simply thermal-paste them over the LEDs? I don’t have any ideas or solutions yet (don’t even have my 5T6 yet), but given the amount of space in the body of the flashlight I envision some great mod ideas!

Cheers for now
Andrew

I’m surprised that you only got 2100ish lumens (i know NW will have less output) but comparing mine to my tm11 (which has a confirmed 2000 OTF) it’s easily brighter by 50% no problem….

I wonder what batteries your using? I’m using pink LG’s, she certainly goes like she’s on steroids :slight_smile:

Well. I don't have a integrating sphere, so I need to estimate based on ceiling bounce figures. It's hard to give accurate values..

I'm using XTAR 18700 2600mAh both in my King and APEX. But in 4P config the cells shouldn't matter that much.

Here's my 10min ceiling bounce comparison of some high lumen lights (indoors, with no cooling)

I didn't mean to publish this, as it's not scientific at all. Different cells etc. So please take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for posting your findings the
Batteries do have a little to do with output. According to HKJ’S battery test the pink LG’s have low internal resistance and are one of if not the best for high drain demands.
I mostly only go off using my lights on the job (real life) and I live in a cold climate too - maybe I got a harder driven one by accident yahoooooo! :slight_smile:

Very nice review! How big are the reflectors? I’d guess around 20mm and no way 26.5 (p60). Build quality looks really nice but I have to admit your review makes me even happier with my King and $100 richer. :wink:

Thank _The_. Very nicely done!

I'm with JohnnyMac here on the King. I know this is Apex's thread, but I can't help but awe at the King's steady light regulation. And temp peaks at 58C too with no cooling, not bad at all for something that small.

I'm so glad I chose this one :bigsmile:

I seriously don’t like idea of an empty hole at the heatsink. It will be real great to have a solid heatsink instead of a thick board glued to the side, less surface contact area…

… which is why the host doesnt get that hot. The heat generated is unable to transfer from the mPCB to the host through the thin aluminum contact area. Arctic Alumina will give a small boost in thermal transfer, but not enough to circumvent a poor design. Thank you for a great review. Like others, Im still happy to have my King.

The LEDs on the apex are close to the edge of the disk so heat does transfer - the reason it doesn’t get supper hot is the xml’s are driven closer to spec so they are more efficient also the walls on the head and the cooling fins are thick/deep on the apex, as apposed to the king their 3 LEDs are way over driven and that’s why it gets so hot - how long realistically can the king be run on high without cooking the LEDs?
It’s just physics, they both have the same LEDs - if you drove all the five xml’s in the apex to the same amps as the king then of course it would have to be brighter having 5 Vs 3 leds but it would only be good for 3 maybe 5 min like the king is.

I’m not dissing the king, I dont have one but I know it is a rip off of the TM11 that is better made and not as driven hard and it still stepped its self down after about 8 min to protect the leds.
it’s just funny how the owners stick up for what they have bought without thinking about the math - also to me there is more to a light than just the wow factor, I use mine as a tool for work and can run the apex for half an hour at a time without worry of cooking it.

Sorry Glen, but that just isnt the case… look again:

The graph clearly shows the Apex suffering from thermal sag while the King does not. This is attributable to insufficient heatsinking, not battery sag.

Also, do some research and you’ll discover that the TM11 is the least bright of the 3 lights you just mentioned… confirmed by those that own and directly compared the the TM11 to the King, not manufacturer ANSI lumen claims.

Its also interesting to note that I have at least 40 continuous +1.5 hour discharge cycles on my king while ran in high mode with no signs of failure or degradation.

Funny? Even more funny is that you didnt seem to take note of the reply the OP left for you in post 15, explaining that the same cells were used in both lights… with another image of the same graph I re-posted above.

Great review, beautiful light. Thanks, _the_.

whats cheapest deal for these ? so quality is better then skyray king ?

i have powered both up. They are both stupid bright, at least to my untrained eye. Reviews aside
unless your looking for a tree limb extra or really studying beam shots its a toss up. One has 5
LEDS moderately driven opposed to 3 LEDS’s for the King/Dry with
a purpose driver. I do own an Apex and always in awe of the King
and Dry but at this amount of output and after a few weeks of
playing with both along with a few other high output lights?
Duty cycle? Both have been run hard the King gets shut
down because the owner doesn’t want to cook the LED’s.
Apex seems gets warm and keeps on at warm for a very long time.

I’ll toss this in only because its fact…Apex with an equally
performance minded driver at la Dry will be something to
watch. I posted the readings and its mild compared to some other lights.
Would i add a DRY to my collection? Hell yes. And the other way
around if owned a DRY. Im not partial to “Celebration Gold”.

Yea, had ric made a full solid heatsink, I’m sure he will have no problems driving it at 2A or even more, given the outer mass and the fins around the heatsink. Now i know why there is no led at the centre … Solution is to stick a large copper/aluminium block at the center with thermal epoxy.
Many thanks to the for the tear down inside.

Well, if that XM-L disc with 5 emitters is made of copper, then it could have turned things around. Someone needs to do a IR temp readout of that white aluminum emitter disc.

Its probably not so much of the surface area of the host touching that big disc. If you divide that area on the host by 5, it seems to be “ok”. I mean you have XM-L on MCPCBs as small as 10mm (and some are smaller even), 16mm is pretty common.

Issue is that heat HAS to travel to the edge to “bleed it off”. Conventional 16mm MCPCBs do it with 100% contact underneath.

Of coz i am not saying that this is a bad design, it probably is ok for 1.5A thereabouts…. it probably would hit the ceiling if it were 2.0A and not provide much additional output.

Someone needs to do a IR temp readout.

Yes it needs to be conducted away to the side that is why leds are only on the side of the board. Ir temp measure will be good to see the hot spot

Well I’m not trying to be smart or a wise guy I’m just having an opinion like you are - you say I didn’t read the post above but did you? He also said it wasnt scientific and to take it with a grain of salt.
I didnt say the tm11 was as bright as king/dry/apex, but the tm11 has been measured in a sphere to be 2000 lumens OTF, so holding the apex and the tm11 together I see my apex as 50ish% brighter and after 8 min the tm steps down but apex is the same brightness and isn’t hot to touch like the tm. Darkside said basically the same thing above. So the king is brighter than the tm11 no doubt - they use the same 3 xml’s but king is driven harder but I see no differance in size of the body to the tm and as the tm is driven lower and still gets almost too hot to hold after 8 min surely you can’t tell me the king is doing fine other than for short bursts of a few minutes without doing some damage to it soon. (but I guess that’s whats good about budget lights)
The TM11 came out first and the king was a copy (because i said its a ripoff) you seem touchy about the king because you own one and I’m sorry I didn’t mean to offend (I don’t doubt that it may be brighter than the apex/dry as I have never had one) technology changes fast and brighter things will always come out as I have found in this apex.
I look like i am new to this forum, but I have been buying and selling lights for over 20 years (especially led lights in the last 8 years) costing anywhere up to $2000 each for custom lights - this isn’t to boast all I am saying is I’ve had tons of the brightest production and rare custom lights out there made so I can honestly say I know a little, I have just recently got back into the buget lights as I’m finding them more fun of late as they are cheap and the quality has become better and the suppliers are happier to push the boundaries for the sake of a sale, but in all honesty I would trust my life to a custom any day.

One thing I have noticed with the cheaper Chinese lights are they aren’t consistent in manufacturing and output - example: I have bought 3 exact same custom lights they are all the same in tint/output/finish and reliability because they hand made and the LEDs are hand picked, I have bought 10 of the same (what I thought was good value cheaper lights to help coworkers get a half descent light and they still complain is expensive for a light) and there are inconsistencies between almost every light in color/tint/output/bad threads/chips.

Rant over.